Heads-up "9/11" War on America (National Geographic)

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Missouri Mule:
I have no idea. Perhaps they were covering up something themselves. I'm not here to support Bush. I just want the facts. What do you want?

People to stop lying to themselves after reading the facts.

 

[Missouri Mule]

If you are such a truth seeker as you pretend, may be you should first visit "9/11 was inside job" thread and present a cohesive picture of how WTC1 or 2 or 7 (on your choice) could collapse the way they did without explosives within. Teacher promissed me it about three weeks ago but perhpas he needs some assisstance.

And if 9/11 was inside job, why Osama could not be the fake, it would be rather logical and consequent to use the old agent for such a job.

I'm not stating it as if I know for sure and have some real evidences. I'm just asking what are the well established facts that Osama bin Laden ceased to work for CIA and US top?
Or may be he was dead since long ago and some of the anti-American activities of different origins were just ascribed to him?

Please, for the sake of sanity, don't try to argue these silly conspiracy theories about 9/11. It was bad enough that 3,000 people died needlessly because of bureaucratic negligence. This just adds to it.

Bin Laden is alive and living in or near the Pakistan border. I guarantee it. Pakistan will not turn him over or allow us in there to get him but he is there. And this might come to a head before long. We are getting a belly full of the stalling around in producing him. You can read about it here.
=============================
The Crisis in U.S.-Pakistani Relations
By George Friedman and Kamran Bokhari

Though the governments of the United States and Pakistan appear to be in sync with one another on the hunt for Osama bin Laden and militant Islamists, a crisis of relations is brewing just beneath the surface. Despite expressions of unity in the war against al Qaeda, cooperation at the operational and tactical levels is nearly nonexistent -- and calculated interference by Pakistani intelligence and security elements is hindering U.S. operations in the country.

This situation is further complicated by ongoing rivalries between government agencies, poor communications and general lack of cooperation by U.S. intelligence and security agencies. All of which leaves counterterrorism operations in Pakistan -- or, more precisely, U.S. efforts to capture or kill bin Laden and other top al Qaeda leaders -- stagnant...

(Snip)

www.stratfor.com

 

[vergiss]

Personally, I'm betting on Saudi Arabia or Iran.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Personally, I'm betting on Saudi Arabia or Iran.

He has been banned from Saudi Arabia. I can't see how he would be there. He may go to Iran on occasion but he is almost certainly in the mountains of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan. I believe we actually know where he is but we can't get at him because of Pakistani foot dragging. The ISI (Pakistan Intelligence Service) is riddled with Al Queda supporters.

To get us off their backs, Pakistan parcels out a few Al Queda every so often but they don't turn loose of the big enchilada. He's there.

Pakistan was one of the very first stops for Powell and Rumsfeld after 9/11. They knew then where the trouble lay. It has always been Pakistan for Al Queda. Iran is the foremost official sponsor of terrorism but it is more with Hezbollah than Al Queda. Besides, bin Laden is a Sunni. Iran is Shite.

 

[cnredd]

He has been banned from Saudi Arabia. I can't see how he would be there. He may go to Iran on occasion but he is almost certainly in the mountains of Pakistan bordering Afghanistan. I believe we actually know where he is but we can't get at him because of Pakistani foot dragging. The ISI (Pakistan Intelligence Service) is riddled with Al Queda supporters.

To get us off their backs, Pakistan parcels out a few Al Queda every so often but they don't turn loose of the big enchilada. He's there.

Pakistan was one of the very first stops for Powell and Rumsfeld after 9/11. They knew then where the trouble lay. It has always been Pakistan for Al Queda. Iran is the foremost official sponsor of terrorism but it is more with Hezbollah than Al Queda. Besides, bin Laden is a Sunni. Iran is Shite.

I ALMOST agree with you...

My theory is that he is, indeed, in the mountains of Pakistan...here's the issue...

That area is home to tribal groups that live as if they are not under Pakistani rule...They are Fundamental Radicals when it comes to Islam. If they could, they would overthrow Mushareef in an Islamabad minute...

If he were to go into that region with force, the locals would consider it an invasion, which would result in a civil war and a possible overthrow(which, by the way, would mean access to nukes).

Mushareef is avoiding this because of the long term interests of the US(the nukes), but alot MORE for his own interests(survival).

He knows that giving up Bin Laden to the US might mean giving HIMSELF up to his local enemies. Keeping him "contained" is what is keeping himself alive...barely...

 

[Missouri Mule]

I ALMOST agree with you...

My theory is that he is, indeed, in the mountains of Pakistan...here's the issue...

That area is home to tribal groups that live as if they are not under Pakistani rule...They are Fundamental Radicals when it comes to Islam. If they could, they would overthrow Mushareef in an Islamabad minute...

If he were to go into that region with force, the locals would consider it an invasion, which would result in a civil war and a possible overthrow(which, by the way, would mean access to nukes).

Mushareef is avoiding this because of the long term interests of the US(the nukes), but alot MORE for his own interests(survival).

He knows that giving up Bin Laden to the US might mean giving HIMSELF up to his local enemies. Keeping him "contained" is what is keeping himself alive...barely...

I don't disagree with you. However, the fact is that we are frustrated in our efforts to capture or kill bin Laden because of Mushareef is either playing games or is afraid if he does so he will be overthrown. The one thing that Islam should do to redeem its tattered reputation is to turn over this mass murderer. From the gitgo it has been the old "rope-a-dope" technique. First deny that bin Laden had anything to do with it. Second when he finally fessed up, he is said to not be a member in good standing in Islam. Thirdly, it is now just obfuscation, delay and more delay. Meanwhile Osama is one of the most popular names in the Middle East. What does this tell you about the ME? I think it speaks volumes.

How would the ME feel if we had a mass murderer of Muslims hiding out in the mountains of Appalachia or the Rocky Mountains and the U.S. government wouldn't take the necessary steps to capture and turn him over. Suppose that some rogue element decides to take things in his own hands and detonate a nuke in Mecca and hides in the U.S. How would they feel?

 

[Missouri Mule]

A "second chance" offer.
============================

According to the NY POST tonight, at 7PM and again at 11PM EST, the National Geographic channel will twice reair all 4 hours of its much praised 9/11 documentary. If you missed it, and/or want to tape it..here's your chance..

 

[vergiss]

He has been banned from Saudi Arabia.

What, and you believe them?

 

[Dem Bruce Lee Styles!!]

I don't disagree with you. However, the fact is that we are frustrated in our efforts to capture or kill bin Laden because of Mushareef is either playing games or is afraid if he does so he will be overthrown. The one thing that Islam should do to redeem its tattered reputation is to turn over this mass murderer. From the gitgo it has been the old "rope-a-dope" technique. First deny that bin Laden had anything to do with it. Second when he finally fessed up, he is said to not be a member in good standing in Islam. Thirdly, it is now just obfuscation, delay and more delay. Meanwhile Osama is one of the most popular names in the Middle East. What does this tell you about the ME? I think it speaks volumes.

How would the ME feel if we had a mass murderer of Muslims hiding out in the mountains of Appalachia or the Rocky Mountains and the U.S. government wouldn't take the necessary steps to capture and turn him over. Suppose that some rogue element decides to take things in his own hands and detonate a nuke in Mecca and hides in the U.S. How would they feel?

Hay guess what… OBL's a CIA asset/puppet, he's fake as fake can be!! And people who first of all ignore this fact about him, and still persist in saying that he's this phantom enemy right out of George Orwell’s 1984 are being incredibly foolish. I know because I also was fooled by the Bush Administration/mass media’s brainwashing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/stor...,584444,00.html

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July

French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital

Anthony Sampson
Thursday November 1, 2001
The Guardian

Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.
The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: "You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah".

The American hospital in Dubai emphatically denied that Bin Laden was a patient there.

Washington last night also denied the story.

Private planes owned by rich princes in the Gulf fly frequently between Quetta and the Emirates, often on luxurious "hunting trips" in territories sympathetic to Bin Laden. Other sources confirm that these hunting trips have provided opportunities for Saudi contacts with the Taliban and terrorists, since they first began in 1994.

Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.

Whether the allegations about the Dubai meeting are confirmed or not, the wider leaks from the French secret service throw a worrying light on the rivalries and lack of coordination between intelligence agencies, both within the US and between western allies.

A familiar complaint of French intelligence is that collaboration with the Americans has been essentially one-way, with them happy to receive information while giving little in return.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Hay guess what… OBL's a CIA asset/puppet, he's fake as fake can be!! And people who first of all ignore this fact about him, and still persist in saying that he's this phantom enemy right out of George Orwell’s 1984 are being incredibly foolish. I know because I also was fooled by the Bush Administration/mass media’s brainwashing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/stor...,584444,00.html

CIA agent alleged to have met Bin Laden in July

French report claims terrorist leader stayed in Dubai hospital

Anthony Sampson
Thursday November 1, 2001
The Guardian

Two months before September 11 Osama bin Laden flew to Dubai for 10 days for treatment at the American hospital, where he was visited by the local CIA agent, according to the French newspaper Le Figaro.
The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere.

Bin Laden is reported to have arrived in Dubai on July 4 from Quetta in Pakistan with his own personal doctor, nurse and four bodyguards, to be treated in the urology department. While there he was visited by several members of his family and Saudi personalities, and the CIA.

The CIA chief was seen in the lift, on his way to see Bin Laden, and later, it is alleged, boasted to friends about his contact. He was recalled to Washington soon afterwards.

Intelligence sources say that another CIA agent was also present; and that Bin Laden was also visited by Prince Turki al Faisal, then head of Saudi intelligence, who had long had links with the Taliban, and Bin Laden. Soon afterwards Turki resigned, and more recently he has publicly attacked him in an open letter: "You are a rotten seed, like the son of Noah".

The American hospital in Dubai emphatically denied that Bin Laden was a patient there.

Washington last night also denied the story.

Private planes owned by rich princes in the Gulf fly frequently between Quetta and the Emirates, often on luxurious "hunting trips" in territories sympathetic to Bin Laden. Other sources confirm that these hunting trips have provided opportunities for Saudi contacts with the Taliban and terrorists, since they first began in 1994.

Bin Laden has often been reported to be in poor health. Some accounts claim that he is suffering from Hepatitis C, and can expect to live for only two more years.

According to Le Figaro, last year he ordered a mobile dialysis machine to be delivered to his base at Kandahar in Afghanistan.

Whether the allegations about the Dubai meeting are confirmed or not, the wider leaks from the French secret service throw a worrying light on the rivalries and lack of coordination between intelligence agencies, both within the US and between western allies.

A familiar complaint of French intelligence is that collaboration with the Americans has been essentially one-way, with them happy to receive information while giving little in return.

If you actually believe what you posted, then I am indeed bin Laden's uncle. What is with you people anyway? This is just one more example of the proven brain damage that the left possesses. Only a fool with a capital "F" would believe such trash.

And you haven't even seen the documentary, have you?

 

[Missouri Mule]

What, and you believe them?

Well, yes, I do.

 

[Surenderer]

How would the ME feel if we had a mass murderer of Muslims hiding out in the mountains of Appalachia or the Rocky Mountains and the U.S. government wouldn't take the necessary steps to capture and turn him over. Suppose that some rogue element decides to take things in his own hands and detonate a nuke in Mecca and hides in the U.S. How would they feel?
__________________

Situation has already played out.....Alot of Arabs in the M.E. feel as if there is a mass murderer of Muslims in the White House.....and the Goverment(or citizens) has done nothing to change this...so some rogue element (O.B.L) has taken things into his own hands and detonated bombs in N.Y.C. and Pennsylvania

 

[_INS_THE_REBEL_]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dem Bruce Lee Styles!!
Hay guess what… OBL's a CIA asset/puppet, he's fake as fake can be!! And people who first of all ignore this fact about him, and still persist in saying that he's this phantom enemy right out of George Orwell’s 1984 are being incredibly foolish. I know because I also was fooled by the Bush Administration/mass media’s brainwashing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/stor...,584444,00.html
And you haven't even seen the documentary, have you?
__________________
The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth.

Osama Bin ladin AKA tim osama worked for the CIA as a tactician during the Afghan War.

Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden,
and the Taliban
by Phil Gasper
International Socialist Review, November-December 2001



The U.S. war on Afghanistan is a brutal attack on a country that has already been almost destroyed by more than 20 years of foreign invasion and civil war.' The Soviet occupation, which lasted from 1979 to 1989, left more than a million people dead. Millions still live in refugee camps More than 500,000 orphans are disabled. Ten million land mines still litter the country, killing an average of 90 people per month. At 43 years, life expectancy in Afghanistan is on average 17 years lower than that for people in other developing countries. The countryside is devastated and is currently experiencing a severe drought, with 7.5 million people threatened with starvation. The death and destruction wrought by the U.S. bombing campaign-and the cut off of food aid deliveries it has caused-have already killed hundreds and produced thousands more refugees scrambling to escape into Pakistan.
But not only is Washington attacking one of the poorest countries in the world, past U.S. government actions are in no small part responsible for the current situation in Afghanistan. The Bush administration claims to be targeting Osama bin Laden, who it says masterminded the September 11 terror attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (even though it has offered no concrete evidence to back up this accusation), and Afghanistan's Taliban government, which is sheltering him. But as the Economist magazine noted soon after September 11, " [U.S.] policies in Afghanistan a decade and more ago helped to create both Osama bin Laden and the fundamentalist Taliban regime that shelters him." An examination of this history will reveal the extent to which U.S. foreign policy is based on hypocrisy, realpolitik, and the short-term pursuit of narrow interests.

Before the Russians invaded
Modern Afghanistan was created in the nineteenth century as a buffer state between the Russian and British empires as they played their "great game" in the region. This historical circumstance, coupled with the country's forbidding mountainous terrain, not only made it difficult for imperialist countries to conquer Afghanistan (it did not undergo colonial rule), but also resulted in little economic development.
The country contains many different ethnic groups. The Pashtuns-from whom Afghanistan's traditional rulers have come-constitute 52 percent of the population. The Hazaras are 19 percent of the population. The Tajiks in the north constitute 21 percent; Uzbeks, also in the north, 5 percent. About 85 percent of Afghans are Sunni Muslims, and about 15 percent, among the Hazaras, are Shia Muslims.
Afghanistan survived as a medieval island in the modern world, characterized by backwardness and extreme poverty. In the postwar period, some changes began to occur as a result of foreign aid from the USSR and, to a lesser extent, the U.S., which were vying for influence during the Cold War. Power shifted toward the state, and an educated middle class began to emerge. But industry still barely existed.
In 1973, following a severe drought, King Zaher's cousin Daud overthrew Zaher's corrupt and repressive regime and declared a republic. But government corruption increased and promised modernization did not take place. Meanwhile, Daud began to collaborate more closely with the Shah of Iran. Lower-level officials and members of the middle class grew increasingly discontented. In April 1978, as Daud attempted to move against his opponents on the left, he was overthrown and killed by army officers sympathetic to the pro-Soviet People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA).
Following the coup, a broad ruling coalition was set up, controlled by the Khalq, one of the PDPA's two factions. Nur Mohammad Taraki, a well-known novelist, became president. Within a few months, however, the Khalq pushed Barbrak Karmal and other members of the rival Parcham faction out of the government. Karmal was made ambassador to Prague, and other Parchami were also given diplomatic posts. The new government lacked any social base outside Kabul, and its program of reforms soon provoked a popular backlash. The Kabul regime was completely isolated from the mass of the population in the countryside:


The CIA became the grand coordinator:

Romancing the Taliban
The creation of the Taliban was "actively encouraged by the ISI and the CIA," according to Selig Harrison, an expert on U.S. relations with Asia. "The United States encouraged Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to support the Taliban

**The text that you have entered is too long (15070 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.**

the rest of the article, it could not fit in one post :doh
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/Afghanistan_CIA_Taliban.html

and I am adding a video: A hard hitting special report into the "war on terror"
Award winning journalist John Pilger

Breaking The Silence.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pilger_breaking_the_silence_35mb.htm

 

[Missouri Mule]

Situation has already played out.....Alot of Arabs in the M.E. feel as if there is a mass murderer of Muslims in the White House.....and the Goverment(or citizens) has done nothing to change this...so some rogue element (O.B.L) has taken things into his own hands and detonated bombs in N.Y.C. and Pennsylvania

Well, I suppose if this is your response my belief about Muslims is well founded -- condoning mass murder of innocents. Why am I not surprised? And you wonder why I think it is height of folly to invite in further Muslims into this country? Wonder no more.

 

[arussian]

Please, for the sake of sanity, don't try to argue these silly conspiracy theories about 9/11. It was bad enough that 3,000 people died needlessly because of bureaucratic negligence. This just adds to it.

Bin Laden is alive and living in or near the Pakistan border. I guarantee it. ...

www.stratfor.com

It is expressed like a point of a religious belief.
Don't you find it being little bit strange and rather "medieval", so to say, to belive in matters that require proof and investigation?

 

[akyron]

Islam never really supressed learning in the Islamic empires.

Afghan fundamentalists suppress women's rights
"The Taliban overthrew the Afghani government in September 1996. Since then they have introduced a series of decrees which have led to the oppression of women and girls on a scale that has yet to be seen in recent times. "
The Impact of Religious Education on Children's Development

"It kills their creativity and replaces curiosity and desire for learning with the dark rules and values of 1400 years ago at the time of Mohammad. Religious teachings regarding women is one of the most devastating aspects of the Islamic educational system in Iran."


Islamic Education in Syria: Undoing Secularism

"Our jihad duty today is a fard `ayn because our countries have been exposed to enemy attack and because part of our land has been occupied by Zionist gangs which threaten our very existence. It is therefore the duty of every Muslim to unite in one rank to take back his land and honor by every means possible (9:166). "


It really did suppress learning and does to this day.The fundamentalists of today want it to remain unchanged.
Religion is bad for all forms of innovation and the freedom of thought that allows it to happen.



Try being a woman Doctor in Saudi Arabia and see how far you get.

 

[cherokee]

It was a very good program.
FrontLine at PBS.org has also made a few.

That tell you the TRUTH about bin laden.

 

[Dem Bruce Lee Styles!!]

It was a very good program.
FrontLine at PBS.org has also made a few.

That tell you the TRUTH about bin laden.

One word…… PROPAGANDA!

Sry my mistake, two words actually…… BRAINWASHING PROPAGANDA

 

[vergiss]

Well, yes, I do.

:doh Pray tell, why?