Heading for NATO borders: Russia already has phases 2 and 3 planned after Ukraine

[Tigerace117]

No. Read for comprehension. Putin is.

Assuming Putin’s going to invade a country because of a 17th century map is silly.

 

[Fledermaus]

Assuming Putin’s going to invade a country because of a 17th century map is silly.

Not because of the map but because of what it represents.

Not that you would understand.

 

[Juks]

We’re going off a map from the mid 1600s? We might as well worry about the Poles then, they might start trying to reclaim all “their” land from then too

Not "we" but Vladimir Putin..... and he, like Chagos says, must have flanked history. Half of the Ukraine belonged to Poland in that agreement and the St Petersburg area that Putin talks about was Swedish at the time and most of Siberia was not Russian at the time.

 

[Juks]

We’re going off a map from the mid 1600s? We might as well worry about the Poles then, they might start trying to reclaim all “their” land from then too

I found a map regarding Russia at that time

File:CEM-15-Asia-Mercator-1595-Russia-2533.jpg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What Putin does in that article is that he takes every single region that at any time has been Russian or ally to Russia or client states since the 1200th and mix their outer borders together into a map (sometimes just with a hint) and says, al of it is Russian.....

Crazy doesn't even describe it.

 

[joluoto]

Their phases are planned worse than Marvel movies.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Yawn. Another day, another round of petulant whining from you. Apparently you cared enough to add some self righteous sputtering about how anyone who doesn’t buy into the constant, incessant fearmongering “defends Russia”.

Pointing out that Russia invaded Ukraine causes you to spasm and accuse the other person of fear mongering, because apparently they never did that, and if they did, it must be the US's fault. You're a low quality poster with an obsession for supporting Russia.

 

[Tigerace117]

Pointing out that Russia invaded Ukraine causes you to spasm and accuse the other person of fear mongering, because apparently they never did that, and if they did, it must be the US's fault. You're a low quality poster with an obsession for supporting Russia.

Accusing Russia of “heading for NATO” and “about to invade multiple other countries” is fearmongering no different than what dominated multiple decades across the Cold War.

You being triggered by having to face the facts doesn’t change them.

 

[Tigerace117]

I found a map regarding Russia at that time

File:CEM-15-Asia-Mercator-1595-Russia-2533.jpg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What Putin does in that article is that he takes every single region that at any time has been Russian or ally to Russia or client states since the 1200th and mix their outer borders together into a map (sometimes just with a hint) and says, al of it is Russian.....

Crazy doesn't even describe it.

Meh. West Germany refused to accept it lost the lands on the far side of the Oder Neisse line for four decades and we supported them. Greece and Turkey have claimed the same lands, such as Cyprus and various Aegean islands, for decades now. I don’t see German tanks rolling into Poland, or Athens and Ankara mixing it up.

This assumption that a country has to attack because it has territorial claims of any sort flat out doesn’t hold up.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Accusing Russia of “heading for NATO” and “about to invade multiple other countries” is fearmongering no different than what dominated multiple decades across the Cold War.

You being triggered by having to face the facts doesn’t change them.

So what? your Putin keeps threatening the world with nukes. Yet not one word from you about fearmongering, warmongering nor do you seem to care about Ukrainian women and children being terrorized and killed.

Your only point seems to parrot Putin and show just how much you hate Ukraine. Come on any new strawman arguments that you think someone would take the bait?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Meh. West Germany refused to accept it lost the lands on the far side of the Oder Neisse line for four decades and we supported them. Greece and Turkey have claimed the same lands, such as Cyprus and various Aegean islands, for decades now. I don’t see German tanks rolling into Poland, or Athens and Ankara mixing it up.

This assumption that a country has to attack because it has territorial claims of any sort flat out doesn’t hold up.

FFS tell that to Putin, he is the one making the claim about what he claims is Russian territory. Why are you trying to get someone on the internet to argue such crap go to the source and go after Putin!

 

[Juks]

Meh. West Germany refused to accept it lost the lands on the far side of the Oder Neisse line for four decades and we supported them. Greece and Turkey have claimed the same lands, such as Cyprus and various Aegean islands, for decades now. I don’t see German tanks rolling into Poland, or Athens and Ankara mixing it up.

This assumption that a country has to attack because it has territorial claims of any sort flat out doesn’t hold up.

What are you talking about?

 

[Fledermaus]

Accusing Russia of “heading for NATO” and “about to invade multiple other countries” is fearmongering no different than what dominated multiple decades across the Cold War.

You being triggered by having to face the facts doesn’t change them.

Again.

Concern over Russia is warranted due to Russian actions in Ukraine.

Concern over the USSR was warranted by the suppression of the Eastern Bloc and her actions elsewhere.

 

[Tigerace117]

So what? your Putin keeps threatening the world with nukes. Yet not one word from you about fearmongering, warmongering nor do you seem to care about Ukrainian women and children being terrorized and killed.

Your only point seems to parrot Putin and show just how much you hate Ukraine. Come on any new strawman arguments that you think someone would take the bait?

And this is different than what we did for the better part of five decades......how? There’s no such thing as not “threatening the nukes”. The existence of the weapons themselves IS a threat. That’s the whole point behind having nukes.

It’s very telling that all you have is hysterical shrieks about me “hating Ukraine” because I don’t buy into the fearmongering.

 

[Tigerace117]

Again.

Concern over Russia is warranted due to Russian actions in Ukraine.

Concern over the USSR was warranted by the suppression of the Eastern Bloc and her actions elsewhere.

And yet the facts showed that the USSR was never going West, and in fact was far more concerned about the West attacking given Reagan’s aggressive actions(and, quite frankly, there’s minimal difference between what the USSR did in Czechoslovakia and what the US did in places like Chile to keep countries “in line”.)

We’ve heard this story before, and it didn’t turn out to be true. Skepticism, therefore, is warranted.

 

[Fledermaus]

And this is different than what we did for the better part of five decades......how? There’s no such thing as not “threatening the nukes”. The existence of the weapons themselves IS a threat. That’s the whole point behind having nukes.

It’s very telling that all you have is hysterical shrieks about me “hating Ukraine” because I don’t buy into the fearmongering.

Friendly reminder.

The use of "hysterical shrieks" is hyperbole and adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[Tigerace117]

Friendly reminder.

The use of "hysterical shrieks" is hyperbole and adds nothing to the conversation.

When someone declares I “hate Ukraine” out of the blue it tends to come off as hysterical, but I note your statement and will attempt to refrain from hyperbole.

 

[Fledermaus]

And yet the facts showed that the USSR was never going West, and in fact was far more concerned about the West attacking given Reagan’s aggressive actions(and, quite frankly, there’s minimal difference between what the USSR did in Czechoslovakia and what the US did in places like Chile to keep countries “in line”.)

It was never going west because another nuclear power blocked them. The East was a buddy. They went south into Afghanistan.

And Reagan was eight years out of decades.

Oh, and we invaded Chile?

 

[Tigerace117]

What are you talking about?

That NATO countries, often under authoritarian governments have held extensive territorial claims without engaging in warfare, so assuming that Putin is going to launch a massive global war in the name of “give clay” doesn’t add up.

 

[Fledermaus]

When someone declares I “hate Ukraine” out of the blue it tends to come off as hysterical, but I note your statement and will attempt to refrain from hyperbole.

I am trying to work with you here.

And you have to forgive others from believing you "hate Ukraine" given your posting record.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Heading for NATO borders: Russia already has phases 2 and 3 planned after Ukraine

The Suwalki Gap between Belarus and Kaliningrad. The gap is NATO territory.




At this time, I think Moldova and the Suwalki Gap would each be a stretch for the depleted Russian military.

But then again, Vladimir Putin has lately demonstrated an uncanny knack for making very bad decisions.

Really this if true is just a reason for the US to renounce NATO altogether.

We do I case about some stupid “gap” in Estonia? I live 8000 miles away. This sounds like Estonia’s problem, how did it become mine? I don’t recall ever voting for that.

 

[Tigerace117]

It was never going west because another nuclear power blocked them. The East was a buddy. They went south into Afghanistan.

And Reagan was eight years out of decades.

Oh, and we invaded Chile?

Not really. China, if anything, was more hostile. We spent the last twenty years of the Cold War actively supporting them(under the table, of course, but actively none the less).

And our nukes didn’t stop people from endlessly worrying about the Soviets doing West. That was the whole point of the Gladio networks(well, before the members got involved in terrorism, that is).

We gave the greenlight to a brutal military coup and helped it succeed. The fact that Americans were running around behind the scenes rather than driving the tanks doesn’t change the fact that it was a brutal repression of a country for daring to ideologically step out of line. Which, as you know, is what happened in Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

“In one particular conversation about the news of Allende's overthrow, Kissinger complained about the lack of recognition of the American role in the overthrow of a "communist" government, upon which Nixon remarked, "Well, we didn't – as you know – our hand doesn't show on this one."[52”

1973 Chilean coup d'état - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, eight years of successively ramping up aggression after a period of relative peace.

 

[Tigerace117]

FFS tell that to Putin, he is the one making the claim about what he claims is Russian territory. Why are you trying to get someone on the internet to argue such crap go to the source and go after Putin!

…..what makes you think I have a direct line to Vladimir Putin?

 

[Tigerace117]

I am trying to work with you here.

And you have to forgive others from believing you "hate Ukraine" given your posting record.

Understood.

 

[Juks]

That NATO countries, often under authoritarian governments have held extensive territorial claims without engaging in warfare, so assuming that Putin is going to launch a massive global war in the name of “give clay” doesn’t add up.

? On what planet are you? NATO hasn't started the war, Putin has. Noone forced him to.

 

[Tigerace117]

? On what planet are you? NATO hasn't started the war, Putin has. Noone forced him to.

What planet are YOU on? I’m pointing out the fact that just because a government— or an authoritarian government— has territorial claims, it doesn’t mean it’s going to attack.