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He Will Always Side With War Instead of Taking a Positive Position.

Michael66

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?Don?t be deluded?: Israeli PM flies in face of intl welcome for Iran's new dawn ? RT News

But if it was just him and his country then the world would be allowed to move forward and explore a peaceful solution to the Iran question. But no, what he says is what goes in the US and that's guaranteed by the powerful Zionist lobbies. Indeed, if any politician should buck his position then that politician will never be re-elected.

Will it ever be time for a position of fairness toward the Palestinian people. Will they ever be overruled by forces for peace and fairness?
 

Thoreau72

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?Don?t be deluded?: Israeli PM flies in face of intl welcome for Iran's new dawn ? RT News

But if it was just him and his country then the world would be allowed to move forward and explore a peaceful solution to the Iran question. But no, what he says is what goes in the US and that's guaranteed by the powerful Zionist lobbies. Indeed, if any politician should buck his position then that politician will never be re-elected.

Will it ever be time for a position of fairness toward the Palestinian people. Will they ever be overruled by forces for peace and fairness?
Probably not in our lifetime. :(
 

CanadaJohn

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The Israelis aren't stupid - a moderate cleric elected to a figurehead position in a theocracy is not exactly a "new dawn" in Irani governance. The guy's had what, two/three days in office and already you want to start beating down on the Israelis as if Gandhi and MLK took over in Iran. Let's see some tangible changes in Iran in the next year - for starters, let's see them put a hold on nuclear power development - then we can start talking peace. I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Michael66

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The Israelis aren't stupid - a moderate cleric elected to a figurehead position in a theocracy is not exactly a "new dawn" in Irani governance. The guy's had what, two/three days in office and already you want to start beating down on the Israelis as if Gandhi and MLK took over in Iran. Let's see some tangible changes in Iran in the next year - for starters, let's see them put a hold on nuclear power development - then we can start talking peace. I'll believe it when I see it.
And how kneejerk was that? When a new leader with a rather favourable background, from most reports, comes on the scene the most reasonable thing to do would to give him the benefit of the doubt. That sort of attitude could pay dividends and in fact be useful for the new leader in knowing that he has the support of the world to continue as a moderate. It also sends a clear message to others in Iran who are 'not' moderates.

But this issue is much more than that. This is about Netanyahu's and the Zionist's fear that a policy of fairness could catch hold in the ME and Israel will have to fall into line with it. But of course, Israel can't continue to expand it's territory into Arab lands if it doesn't have the backing of the US for it's regime of apartheid. And so, peace with Iran would be in the very worst interests of Israel. Indeed, peace with Syria was very possible and the process had started before Israel interfered and ensured that the process was destroyed.

As a sidenote. Most of US support for Israel appears to be based on religious superstitions and 'the promised land' fairy tale. When that starts to fade away to any appreciable amount then it's likely that support for Israel will lessen along with it. There is no other reason why Americans, and indeed some Christian Canadians would support a regime that is the primary cause of revenge attacks against America.

Judging from the lack of comments to this thread, there aren't many Americans who understand that yet. Or perhaps more to the truth, are just not ready to state it openly. And so, little will change in America. This is the big picture. This is the forest that can't be seen because of the trees.
 

CanadaJohn

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And how kneejerk was that? When a new leader with a rather favourable background, from most reports, comes on the scene the most reasonable thing to do would to give him the benefit of the doubt. That sort of attitude could pay dividends and in fact be useful for the new leader in knowing that he has the support of the world to continue as a moderate. It also sends a clear message to others in Iran who are 'not' moderates.

But this issue is much more than that. This is about Netanyahu's and the Zionist's fear that a policy of fairness could catch hold in the ME and Israel will have to fall into line with it. But of course, Israel can't continue to expand it's territory into Arab lands if it doesn't have the backing of the US for it's regime of apartheid. And so, peace with Iran would be in the very worst interests of Israel. Indeed, peace with Syria was very possible and the process had started before Israel interfered and ensured that the process was destroyed.

As a sidenote. Most of US support for Israel appears to be based on religious superstitions and 'the promised land' fairy tale. When that starts to fade away to any appreciable amount then it's likely that support for Israel will lessen along with it. There is no other reason why Americans, and indeed some Christian Canadians would support a regime that is the primary cause of revenge attacks against America.

Judging from the lack of comments to this thread, there aren't many Americans who understand that yet. Or perhaps more to the truth, are just not ready to state it openly. And so, little will change in America. This is the big picture. This is the forest that can't be seen because of the trees.
Considering your clear bias, I'm not surprised there isn't much activity on this thread. Funny that you want the Israelis to give an Iranian cleric the benefit of the doubt when the announced state policy of Iran vis-a-vis Israel continues to be that stated by the former Iranian President, that being "the annihilation of the zionist state". How about this moderate cleric coming out and stating without reservation that "the annihilation of the zionist state" is no longer the stated goal of the Irani leadership? Maybe then you might get some benefit of the doubt accruing to them.
 

Michael66

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Considering your clear bias, I'm not surprised there isn't much activity on this thread. Funny that you want the Israelis to give an Iranian cleric the benefit of the doubt when the announced state policy of Iran vis-a-vis Israel continues to be that stated by the former Iranian President, that being "the annihilation of the zionist state". How about this moderate cleric coming out and stating without reservation that "the annihilation of the zionist state" is no longer the stated goal of the Irani leadership? Maybe then you might get some benefit of the doubt accruing to them.
Is it the best rebuttal you can come up with to talk about the 'former' Iranian president. And why hide your sentiments when you clearly want to throw out the 'anti-semitism' charge now in order to nip it in the bud?

You are clearly attempting to bypass the issue I bring up in the OP and that appears to not be on any rational grounds. You can't even address the sensible approach to supporting a moderate and that appears to be because of an agenda you have that is most porbably centered around religious fanaticism. There just is no other reason for anyone to not go along in line with the rest of the world and be on the side of at least possible progress toward preventing war in Iran!

Why is that? Is it because you understand as well as the Zionists understand that peace with Iran and the Arab countries of the ME is the very worst outcome for Netanyahu and his gang of thugs?

But I do notice that, as you say, there is little activity on this thread as yet. Is that because Americans are afraid of it? is it because they are at the point of indecision? Or do they find the very idea of questioning the Zionist regime just too politically out of tune with the propaganda pap they have been spoon fed for so long?

"If you shut up truth and bury it underground, it will but grow, and gather to itself such explosive power that the day it bursts through it will blow up everything in its way." - Emile Zola
 

Michael66

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Sorry - you're confused - I'm not the one with an agenda here.
Yes, you are and your agenda is apparently the agenda that is winning the day in the US still. But things are changing because their government has conditioned them to live in fear and they have accepted the suggestion. And so, they will live in fear and a modicum of confidence that their military might can keep them safe from revenge attacks from without. But they also resist the lifestyle that has been opposed on them and they react by attempting to destroy the very mechanisms that 'do' protect them.

The obvious answer is an answer that doesn't impose any real hardships on the American people themselves. As long as we are able to understand that throwing out the 'promised land' nonsense is no real hardship. And so, they only need to think on the troubles a bit and they will start to come to the obvious conclusion that the remedy is an easy pill to swallow and it's right there in front of them waiting to be picked up.

Could it be any more simple that taking an approach of the sort that I have suggested with Iran's new leader? Would it cost them anything? Would it cost them anything to tell Netanyahu and his gang of Zionist thugs to sit in the corner and be quiet for a while? Does it hurt anybody but you to just give it a chance? Is there anyone other than you that could be hurt by giving it a chance?
I don't know of any of our other fellow Canadians who would side with your view? But if there are then I would like to know why? It's obvious that you need to keep your real reasons hidden isn't it.
 

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Good gawd.

This new "president" answers entirely to the Ayatollah and militant Islamic faction in charge. He's got as much power as the Pillsbury doughboy.
 

Michael66

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Good gawd.

This new "president" answers entirely to the Ayatollah and militant Islamic faction in charge. He's got as much power as the Pillsbury doughboy.
His power comes from the fact that he has envisioned a policy of fairness in the ME and that is not siding with the Zionist agenda. So call it what you like, but as you do you just further betray the fact that what I say is true and it's driving the right in the US crazy. It's a part of the Obama hate, the relevant part that is so ornery to not go away and die somewhere.

But thank you for your remark here. It's just exactly what I was hoping for because it doesn't take an IQ any higher than room temperature to understand that you made my point for me.

edit: Oh, and 'answers to the Ayatollah'?
Well pal, it's your credibility to throw away, not mine!
 

azgreg

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I'll believe the new guy has any power when I see it. Until then it's situation normal in my book.
 

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?Don?t be deluded?: Israeli PM flies in face of intl welcome for Iran's new dawn ? RT News

But if it was just him and his country then the world would be allowed to move forward and explore a peaceful solution to the Iran question. But no, what he says is what goes in the US and that's guaranteed by the powerful Zionist lobbies. Indeed, if any politician should buck his position then that politician will never be re-elected.

Will it ever be time for a position of fairness toward the Palestinian people. Will they ever be overruled by forces for peace and fairness?
Will the Palestinians, Arabs, and Iranians ever agree to peaceful relations with a Jewish state? Has Iran announced that it is dropping support for Hezbollah?
 
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I think we should just send McCain in ... he's ready to go ...
 

Michael66

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Will the Palestinians, Arabs, and Iranians ever agree to peaceful relations with a Jewish state? Has Iran announced that it is dropping support for Hezbollah?
Well, at least you have tried to take us back to the preliminary argument that sides with Israel. You assert that it's not Israel's fault but is the Arabs' fault. And that's something that can be analyzed and argued in detail if Americans want to have their feet held to the fire.

You see, we could begin with the simple fact that peace with Syria could have been had if the Zionists didn't do everything in their power to destroy the process.

Or would you like to go right back to the wrong submissions that Israel is a tiny defencless puppy in the midst of giant powerful Arab nations.

Wherever you choose to go with this, you need to keep in mind the real issue and that is that support for Israel and it's apartheid regime is the biggest cause of nearly all of America's problems.

If you're a libertarian as you are declaring, I hold out hope that you will be able to take a credible approach to this issue. Let's stay away from the sort of behaviour we've been seeing so far.
 

Michael66

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I think we should just send McCain in ... he's ready to go ...
Yes, he certainly is! And doesn't that cause a lot of pain to the bagger side of the Repub party. How are they going to reconcile that?? Will they just decide to remain silent on the problem? Or maybe they 'really' don't see it as a problem as long as it's done done under Obama's term?
 

wbcoleman

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Well, at least you have tried to take us back to the preliminary argument that sides with Israel. You assert that it's not Israel's fault but is the Arabs' fault. And that's something that can be analyzed and argued in detail if Americans want to have their feet held to the fire.

You see, we could begin with the simple fact that peace with Syria could have been had if the Zionists didn't do everything in their power to destroy the process.

Or would you like to go right back to the wrong submissions that Israel is a tiny defencless puppy in the midst of giant powerful Arab nations.

Wherever you choose to go with this, you need to keep in mind the real issue and that is that support for Israel and it's apartheid regime is the biggest cause of nearly all of America's problems.

If you're a libertarian as you are declaring, I hold out hope that you will be able to take a credible approach to this issue. Let's stay away from the sort of behaviour we've been seeing so far.
Israel offered to return the Golan to Syria on numerous occasions over many years. al-Assad Sr. wouldn't agree to peace in return.
 

wbcoleman

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Well, at least you have tried to take us back to the preliminary argument that sides with Israel. You assert that it's not Israel's fault but is the Arabs' fault. And that's something that can be analyzed and argued in detail if Americans want to have their feet held to the fire.

You see, we could begin with the simple fact that peace with Syria could have been had if the Zionists didn't do everything in their power to destroy the process.

Or would you like to go right back to the wrong submissions that Israel is a tiny defencless puppy in the midst of giant powerful Arab nations.

Wherever you choose to go with this, you need to keep in mind the real issue and that is that support for Israel and it's apartheid regime is the biggest cause of nearly all of America's problems.

If you're a libertarian as you are declaring, I hold out hope that you will be able to take a credible approach to this issue. Let's stay away from the sort of behaviour we've been seeing so far.
Oh, and by the way: Zionism is the National Liberation Movement of the Jewish People.
 

wbcoleman

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Well isn't that an exciting rebuttal of what I said!

Can it get any better?
Yeah, it could, if only you addressed al-Assad Sr's refusal to accept return of the Golan in exchange for peace.
 

Michael66

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Yeah, it could, if only you addressed al-Assad Sr's refusal to accept return of the Golan in exchange for peace.
There's nowhere I won't go with this discussion, other than foolish oneliners that waste my time as well as the time of others. If you wish to get into some detail with that then go right ahead.

But don't you think it's a bit of a copout from discussing the immediate issues? I mean, how far back do you think we can go with placing blame. And then, when we're both happy with placing blame, does it change the situation on the ground in which Americans are putting themselves at ever increasing risk to ongoing future revenge attacks fraom aggrieved people of the ME?

Act like a libertarian as you claim to be and stop trying to avoid the truth.
 

wbcoleman

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There's nowhere I won't go with this discussion, other than foolish oneliners that waste my time as well as the time of others. If you wish to get into some detail with that then go right ahead.

But don't you think it's a bit of a copout from discussing the immediate issues? I mean, how far back do you think we can go with placing blame. And then, when we're both happy with placing blame, does it change the situation on the ground in which Americans are putting themselves at ever increasing risk to ongoing future revenge attacks fraom aggrieved people of the ME?

Act like a libertarian as you claim to be and stop trying to avoid the truth.
No dispute is 100% one-sided, and the Arab-Israeli conflict is no exception. I would never claim that Israel is blameless or that the Arabs have no grievances. Having said that, however, I regard it indisputable that the conflict can be settled if and when the various Arab groups actually reconcile themselves to a Jewish state within their midst. Until that day, nada.
 

Michael66

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No dispute is 100% one-sided, and the Arab-Israeli conflict is no exception. I would never claim that Israel is blameless or that the Arabs have no grievances. Having said that, however, I regard it indisputable that the conflict can be settled if and when the various Arab groups actually reconcile themselves to a Jewish state within their midst. Until that day, nada.
And I submit that has already happened. Why not start by using the quote from Ahmadinejad but before you do take the time to find out what he really said. I would also remind you that Israel remains in violation of numerous UN resolutions and especially most damning, it's insistence to continue to occupy Palestinian lands and to further illegal expansion.

While this dispute has not always been one-sided, it is now. Israel is completely and totally to blame with the ongoing problems. But you have to also understand that Israel has definite plans for further expansion of it's lands at the expense of the Palestinian people. And soon it will stretch further.

So let's talk solutions because that's what is in your best interests. Do you agree with what your Ron Paul has stated on the issues of the ME and America's policies?
 

wbcoleman

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And I submit that has already happened. Why not start by using the quote from Ahmadinejad but before you do take the time to find out what he really said. I would also remind you that Israel remains in violation of numerous UN resolutions and especially most damning, it's insistence to continue to occupy Palestinian lands and to further illegal expansion.

While this dispute has not always been one-sided, it is now. Israel is completely and totally to blame with the ongoing problems. But you have to also understand that Israel has definite plans for further expansion of it's lands at the expense of the Palestinian people. And soon it will stretch further.

So let's talk solutions because that's what is in your best interests. Do you agree with what your Ron Paul has stated on the issues of the ME and America's policies?
One cannot argue in good faith that anyone in the Arab world outside of the Egyptians and the Jordanians has done any such thing. And, guess what, Israel signed peace treaties with them. Your claim that the Iranian regime accepts Israel's existence is preposterous.
 

Michael66

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One cannot argue in good faith that anyone in the Arab world outside of the Egyptians and the Jordanians has done any such thing. And, guess what, Israel signed peace treaties with them. Your claim that the Iranian regime accepts Israel's existence is preposterous.
If you want to stick with a dogmatic agenda then this isn't going to go anywhere. If you want to try to discuss solutions for America then that's what I'm trying to get going here.

For example, Syria has no ambitions to be at war with Israel and the US and for that reason it has made peace overtures to both Israel and the US. You have to come to the understanding that Israel is not interested in peace with any country as long as they have their proxy bully pulpit to rely upon. If that was taken away, as it inevitably eventually will be, Israel has the military might to stand on it's own. No nation, nuclear armed or not, is going to wage an attack on another nuclear armed nation. That has never happened and likely won't happen in the foreseeable future, unless it's the US and Israel attacking Iran with tactical nuclear weapons. Border scurmishes will continue to happen but they will be understandably reactions to aggressions of the other side.

A UN peacekeeping force could end this in an instance and so why hasn't that been allowed to happen?

Oh, and what did Ahmadinejad 'really' say? Do you have the interest to at least find out the truth on that?
 

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The Israelis aren't stupid - a moderate cleric elected to a figurehead position in a theocracy is not exactly a "new dawn" in Irani governance. The guy's had what, two/three days in office and already you want to start beating down on the Israelis as if Gandhi and MLK took over in Iran. Let's see some tangible changes in Iran in the next year - for starters, let's see them put a hold on nuclear power development - then we can start talking peace. I'll believe it when I see it.
As a man who has laid behind many a fully automatic weapon waiting for what the 'new dawn' might bring I attest to the fact it isn't a light switch. The new dawn is timid with a period called the gloom where shadows move and lesser souls quail at imagined bad guys coming for them. The new dawn is a period that can try lesser souls, but the light will come. A moderate cleric is a new dawn, but it can be the same ****, different day- only time and patience will tell.

Now if I recall history, MLK and Gandhi were not seen as MLK and Gandhi in their day, but commies, and malcontents. And Israel is not without sin. The Current PM's brother was a fallen hero to the State of Israel, BiBi is more like a dead hero's coattail riding Cheney, who had other priorities in a nation that traditionally sees a very high percentage of male military service.

So BiBi doesn't inspire me to follow him anywhere but perhaps the snack bar, n he better be buying. :peace
 
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