Have people forgotten how messed up things were when Obama took office? [W:635/789]]

During his inauguration speech he said the following: "To day I say to you that the challenges we face are real, they are serious and they are many, they will not be met easily, or in a short span of time. But know this, America--they will be met."

At that time, even die-hard liberals sort of knew that even as much as they believed in Obama, that there would be no magic bullet, and no easy way out of this problem. I mean, seriously, when Obama took office, the American economy had already lost almost four and a half million jobs.

EVERY reasonable economist (even conservative ones) already knew that a serious economic recovery would take 5-10 years, so why are people suddenly acting as if Obama should have already turned the economy around by now?

I can understand why that is where they would attack him, just because it is politically savvy, but do people REALLY believe that McCain or ANY Republican would have turned the economy around faster?

Why would anyone believe that?

We do not know how McCain would have done and accentuating the problem-the Dems probably would have retained the house in 2010 which really would have screwed the pooch as they would have probably jacked taxes up. We also know that McCain most likely would not have picked under qualified quotas to be on the USSC.

And what has Obama done? Raised the debt and spent money like a desperate housewife? When Obama started and things fell through Bush had a Dem Congress. But let's not let that get in the way of partisanship.

Res Cogitans said:

During his inauguration speech he said the following: "To day I say to you that the challenges we face are real, they are serious and they are many, they will not be met easily, or in a short span of time. But know this, America--they will be met."

At that time, even die-hard liberals sort of knew that even as much as they believed in Obama, that there would be no magic bullet, and no easy way out of this problem. I mean, seriously, when Obama took office, the American economy had already lost almost four and a half million jobs.

EVERY reasonable economist (even conservative ones) already knew that a serious economic recovery would take 5-10 years, so why are people suddenly acting as if Obama should have already turned the economy around by now?

I can understand why that is where they would attack him, just because it is politically savvy, but do people REALLY believe that McCain or ANY Republican would have turned the economy around faster?

Why would anyone believe that?

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Nobody will ever know because Obama was, in fact, elected. And it was Obama who chose to support Solyndra and etc.

Res Cogitans said:

...so why are people suddenly acting as if Obama should have already turned the economy around by now?

...but do people REALLY believe that McCain or ANY Republican would have turned the economy around faster?

Why would anyone believe that?

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1. Mr. Obama wanted the job. He got the job. Now he must perform.

2. Some one other than Mr. Obama, e.g., McCain or H. Clinton, might not have dug such a deep hole. Maybe they would have stopped digging.

3. Would some any one believe anything the govt. says? No.

It's far more complicated than a binary 1) we'd be already recovered or 2) we're still horribly doomed.

I don't think that any Republican would have had the economy fixed by now. But I do think it would be better. Throughout Obama's administration, we've seen continued expansion of regulation, including the new Health Care law, a lot of uncertainty on taxes, and a rather weak policy on dealing with China. Business leaders do not like uncertainty, and it is uncertainty, more than anything else, that is hampering our recovery. Right now, businesses are flush with cash, and we have a willing and able workforce that just wants a job, but businesses are not hiring. Why not? Because they aren't sure what's going to happen going forward.

Now, this is not just Obama's fault. Congress takes huge blame for this as well, both Republicans and Democrats. Obviously, a lot of businesses were unhappy seeing Congress expand regulatory control of a lot of things. But now with both Republicans and Democrats being so partisan, we're seeing a lot of uncertainty in government. Both parties are holding out until the last second, and then putting together deals that don't really address the problems, and instead just bandage it.

On the whole, I think that Obama is not doing a very good job of being a leader, and that ultimately is why we have some of the problems we do today. In my mind, I think McCain or Romney would be better. You saw this in the health care debate. Obama did not do a very good job of rallying the troops and getting things done. Throughout the debt ceiling debate, he only awkwardly stepped in at the last minute, rather than try to lead the Democrats at the negotiation table and through his bully pulpit. Obama had a strong mandate to lead this country in 2008, but I feel like he dropped the ball.

TurtleDude said:

We do not know how McCain would have done and accentuating the problem-the Dems probably would have retained the house in 2010 which really would have screwed the pooch as they would have probably jacked taxes up. We also know that McCain most likely would not have picked under qualified quotas to be on the USSC.

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we know mccain picked an unqualified VP.

99percenter said:

we know mccain picked an unqualified VP.

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she was only slightly better qualified than your presidential candidate when it came to executive experience. She also is a bit more intelligent than Biden

nota bene said:

Nobody will ever know because Obama was, in fact, elected.

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This is actually my point. Nobody will ever know, but why do they pretend that they do? The economy IS growing. But just not fast enough? According to who? Who are the people who actually have REASONS that Obama's economic policies have failed.

I've never heard ANYONE say that there was a plan that would have gotten the economy back to normal by now--some people just pretend that there is some plan, and whatever plan it is, the Republicans would have implemented it if only they had the chance...

Res Cogitans said:

do people REALLY believe that McCain or ANY Republican would have turned the economy around faster?

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i don't.

Res Cogitans said:

Why would anyone believe that?

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because partisan teamsports trumps logic apparently.

it's not just conservatives, either. some of the anti-Bush stuff was just beyond the pale. i disagreed with him and wanted him out of office; sure. but some people believed he was actually going to try to suspend the elections and become dictator. ****, some thought him capable of creating, executing, and covering up the grandest false flag attack in the history of the world.

TurtleDude said:

she was only slightly better qualified than your presidential candidate when it came to executive experience. She also is a bit more intelligent than Biden

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She was the most unqualified candidate in any ticket in american history. biden is much smarter than palin. He knows that africa is a continent and what the federal reserve is.

Res Cogitans said:

During his inauguration speech he said the following: "To day I say to you that the challenges we face are real, they are serious and they are many, they will not be met easily, or in a short span of time. But know this, America--they will be met."

At that time, even die-hard liberals sort of knew that even as much as they believed in Obama, that there would be no magic bullet, and no easy way out of this problem. I mean, seriously, when Obama took office, the American economy had already lost almost four and a half million jobs.

EVERY reasonable economist (even conservative ones) already knew that a serious economic recovery would take 5-10 years, so why are people suddenly acting as if Obama should have already turned the economy around by now?

I can understand why that is where they would attack him, just because it is politically savvy, but do people REALLY believe that McCain or ANY Republican would have turned the economy around faster?

Why would anyone believe that?

Click to expand...

McCain not only wouldn't be able to turn it around, but he would have made everything worse. He would have continued the same failed bush policies that created the great recession in the first place. Plus we would have a third war in iran to deal with while OBL is safe with his 5 wives in his million dollar pakistani compound.

99percenter said:

She was the most unqualified candidate in any ticket in american history. biden is much smarter than palin. He knows that africa is a continent and what the federal reserve is.

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when you make moronic comments like that no one is going to take you seriously

first of all, I doubt highly you can even name one TENTH of the entire number of tickets over the last 200+ years. Secondly, you obviously couldn't make an objective analysis of all those people even if you could. Biden is a moron who graduated at the very bottom of his class of a second rate law school after finishing near the bottom of a rather undistinguished state university. He also flunked his state bar exam and wait-it was Delaware, not NY, Mass, California, Illinois, DC or Ohio

99percenter said:

McCain not only wouldn't be able to turn it around, but he would have made everything worse. He would have continued the same failed bush policies that created the great recession in the first place. Plus we would have a third war in iran to deal with while OBL is safe with his 5 wives in his million dollar pakistani compound.

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Many smart lefties claim that Obama is actually continuing the Bush policies. Like the tax cuts for example. the bailouts.

try again

TurtleDude said:

Many smart lefties claim that Obama is actually continuing the Bush policies. Like the tax cuts for example. the bailouts.

try again

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Yes, he has continued many of the policies and thats why the recovery is slower than it should be. The GOP legislature is also forcing a continuance of the bush policies. We know that the mccain would have been a bush clone so there would be no recovery. the unemployment would be 20-25% as opposed to the 8.2% it is now.

TurtleDude said:

when you make moronic comments like that no one is going to take you seriously

first of all, I doubt highly you can even name one TENTH of the entire number of tickets over the last 200+ years. Secondly, you obviously couldn't make an objective analysis of all those people even if you could. Biden is a moron who graduated at the very bottom of his class of a second rate law school after finishing near the bottom of a rather undistinguished state university. He also flunked his state bar exam and wait-it was Delaware, not NY, Mass, California, Illinois, DC or Ohio

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Make no mistake, our grand children will be reading in history books on how unqualified palin was. She will go down as the most unqualified candidate in american history. We don't need to look over all the tickets because its hard to be stupider and more unqualified than palin is. I am still having a hard time believing that mccain found someone that stupid to be on his ticket.

99percenter said:

Yes, he has continued many of the policies and thats why the recovery is slower than it should be. The GOP legislature is also forcing a continuance of the bush policies. We know that the mccain would have been a bush clone so there would be know recovery. the unemployment would be 20-25% as opposed to the 8.2% it is now.

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Your first claim is idiotic speculation that has no basis in reality. Your second claim is a lie-unemployment is far higher than that number because it doesn't take into account those who stopped looking and UNDEREMPLOYMENT (guys with degrees flipping burgers or picking up trash in public parks IS RAMPANT

99percenter said:

Yes, he has continued many of the policies and thats why the recovery is slower than it should be. The GOP legislature is also forcing a continuance of the bush policies. We know that the mccain would have been a bush clone so there would be know recovery. the unemployment would be 20-25% as opposed to the 8.2% it is now.

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i got a question,where do get some of the things you say?

20-25% unemployment,absolutely crazy and litterally impossible forany president to create,that would an effort between everyform of government at both state and federal levels being unified in the sole purpose of screwing everything up.

btw td is right,obama has pretty much followed everything bush has done,but apparently to some,a bad idea becomes good if you take the r away and add a d.

TurtleDude said:

Your first claim is idiotic speculation that has no basis in reality. Your second claim is a lie-unemployment is far higher than that number because it doesn't take into account those who stopped looking and UNDEREMPLOYMENT (guys with degrees flipping burgers or picking up trash in public parks IS RAMPANT

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Yes. There are lot of folks still unemployed and underemployed. The residual effects of the bush cheney great recession. Would be higher if mccain had won. If obama had done more of the things that liberals like krugman are calling for and less compromising with the GOP the recovery would be more robust.

TurtleDude said:

Many smart lefties claim that Obama is actually continuing the Bush policies. Like the tax cuts for example. the bailouts.

try again

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Uhhh he is................................................................................................................
A partial list of Bush policies carried on by Obama.Despite rhetoric, Obama continues Bush policy on detainees: Indefinite detention, no legal rights
Obama Continues Bush Policy of Deadly Air Strikes in Pakistan
Obama Continues Bush Policy On State Secrets
Obama continues Bush policy of hiding visitors names
Obama Continues Bush Policy on Weapons to Georgia
Obama’s embrace of Bush terrorism policies is celebrated as “Centrism”
Obama continues Bush’s secrecy policy on mysterious IP trade deal
Obama Blames Bush While Adopting his Policies
Bush Tax Cuts
Obama’s Bank Bailout: Bush’s Plan Resurrected

99percenter said:

Yes, he has continued many of the policies and thats why the recovery is slower than it should be. The GOP legislature is also forcing a continuance of the bush policies. We know that the mccain would have been a bush clone so there would be no recovery. the unemployment would be 20-25% as opposed to the 8.2% it is now.

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There is absolutely no proof of any of this. Your comment is nothing more than hysterical liberal talking points designed to appeal to demagogues against the right.

I'm really tired of this argument. It's basically "Obama is forced to be just like Bush, which is why the recovery is slow, but McCain would have just been Bush anyway, but under McCain, Bush's policies would have resulted in even worse conditions." You can't eat your cake and have it too.

beerftw said:

i got a question,where do get some of the things you say?

20-25% unemployment,absolutely crazy and litterally impossible forany president to create,that would an effort between everyform of government at both state and federal levels being unified in the sole purpose of screwing everything up.

btw td is right,obama has pretty much followed everything bush has done,but apparently to some,a bad idea becomes good if you take the r away and add a d.

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Where did i say that? I think obama has been a check on the failed bush policies that created the great recession. Obviously there is more he can do, but the thought of a mccain or palin presidency is scary and we would be worse off if the election had gone the other way.

99percenter said:

Where did i say that? I think obama has been a check on the failed bush policies that created the great recession. Obviously there is more he can do, but the thought of a mccain or palin presidency is scary and we would be worse off if the election had gone the other way.

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You seem to have forgotten that under the first two years of Obama's presidency, he's had a robust majority in both the House and the Senate. Even now, the Dems still control the senate. Remind me how it is that the evil Republicans are forcing Obama to continue Bush's policies.

99percenter said:

Where did i say that? I think obama has been a check on the failed bush policies that created the great recession. Obviously there is more he can do, but the thought of a mccain or palin presidency is scary and we would be worse off if the election had gone the other way.

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i have a question,when bush entered office,he had to deal with a failing economy,arguably from clinton.was bush responsible for the stock market divinng in 2000?or the dot com bubble?

repealing glass steagal was one of the largest factors causing the recession,it was repealed under clinton not bush,and it was repealed by overwhelming majority on boths sides,so for bushes great recession there sure seemed to be equal number of democrats that stuck their hands in the problem,but yet have worked endlessly to blame bush and the republicans for a bipartisan failure on epic levels.

Nick2253 said:

You seem to have forgotten that under the first two years of Obama's presidency, he's had a robust majority in both the House and the Senate. Even now, the Dems still control the senate. Remind me how it is that the evil Republicans are forcing Obama to continue Bush's policies.

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There were many conservative dems that did not support the obama agenda as evidenced by him having to drop the public option to pass healthcare reform. The democratic party is a big tent party unlike the GOP.