Has Zelensky Capitulated to Nazis?

[sanman]

Vladimir Zelensky, Ukraine's current president who is of Russian-speaking Jewish descent, campaigned for office on the platform of ceasing war on Donbass.

However, President Zelensky was not in charge of the military, and when he confronted them and ordered them to stand down, their hardliners pushed back and angrily refused.

The right-wing military hawks didn't see a mere Russian-speaking Jew as having the right to tell them - real Ukrainians - what to do on matters of war.

Zelensky was forced to concede to their demands to continue the war on Donbass -- the very war that he had promised to end as his central campaign platform for election.

How Ukraine’s Jewish President, Volodymyr Zelensky, Made Peace with Neo-Nazi Paramilitaries on Front Lines of War with Russia - Toward Freedom

While Western media deploys Volodymyr Zelensky’s Jewish heritage to refute accusations of Nazi influence in Ukraine, the president has ceded to neo-Nazi forces and now depends on them as front line fighters, report Alexander Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal.

towardfreedom.org

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky awarded Right Sector commander Dmytro Kotsyubaylo the “Hero of Ukraine”
commendation on December


Guess who/what Right Sector is, btw? We're not talking about The Price is Right, here.

 

[jnug]

No he has not. There that was easy.

 

[Goshin]

I really don't know.

TBH my knowledge of Ukraine was modest three months ago, and my current knowledge is mostly about the war.

I'm against Russian wars-of-conquest-to-restore-Soviet-borders, and personally do not require Ukraine to be the ultimate in pure goodness to support them against the Russian invasion. Like most nations, I expect Ukraine is a mixed bag of good, mediocre and bad. Victimhood =/= sainthood.

But I don't need to know Ukraine is pure and perfect to oppose Russian imperialism.

TO A POINT... I'm not interested in getting nuked for Ukraine, so I oppose any direct military action like no-fly zone.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

The only other source anywhere I can find talking about Zelesky's relations with the far right militant groups is from his wikipedia, and it doesn't sound like they like him very much.

One of Zelenskyy's central campaign promises had been to end the war in Donbas and resolve the Russia-sponsored separatist movement there....Several Ukrainian nationalist militias and former militias also refused to accept the agreement, including the far-right Azov fighters in the Luhansk region of Donbas. Zelenskyy met personally with some of these groups and tried to convince them to surrender their unregistered weapons and accept the peace accord. Andriy Biletsky, the leader of the far-right National Corps and first commander of Azov, accused Zelenskyy of being disrespectful to army veterans and of acting on behalf of the Kremlin by leaving Ukrainians vulnerable to Russian aggression.[120][121] Ultimately, the peace deal failed to reduce the violence, much less end the war.

 

[ChickenTendies]

Yeah they threatened to coup him if he sought an end to the war.

 

[Manc Skipper]

The Nazi smear is Putin propaganda.

 

[sanman]

I really don't know.

TBH my knowledge of Ukraine was modest three months ago, and my current knowledge is mostly about the war.

I'm against Russian wars-of-conquest-to-restore-Soviet-borders, and personally do not require Ukraine to be the ultimate in pure goodness to support them against the Russian invasion. Like most nations, I expect Ukraine is a mixed bag of good, mediocre and bad. Victimhood =/= sainthood.

But I don't need to know Ukraine is pure and perfect to oppose Russian imperialism.

TO A POINT... I'm not interested in getting nuked for Ukraine, so I oppose any direct military action like no-fly zone.

Here we're talking about the Ukrainian military's bombardment of the Donbass region, causing major civilian casualties. This may have in part motivated Putin to act militarily, with him seeing that the situation for ethnic Russians in Ukraine would only get worse and worse over time -- especially given that the hardline hawks in Ukraine's military were intransigent in their desire for war on Donbass. Remember that Zelensky's main central campaign platform in running for office was to end the Ukrainian military's war on Donbass, which was killing so many civilians there. And Zelensky then failed in his central objective to get the military to stop their war. The hardline Neo-Nazi elements, who have been promoted up the ranks of the military, simply held too much power and were too hardline to accept Zelensky's orders. Remember that Zelensky is a n00b to politics, who had never ever held any political office before running for President in 2019. He was just a TV star who ran for president, promising to end the war on the ethnic Russian enclaves of Donbass -- a war which the Neo-Nazi groups like Azov Battalion were spearheading and supplying the troops for. But Zelensky was unable to "bell the cat" and was forced to concede to them instead.
So the deadly war on Donbass continued, taking more ethnic Russian lives, which riled the Kremlin.

Add to that Xi Jinping's entry into the situation, to catalyze Putin's invasion. Xi was facing increased pressure from US and its allies against his govt, especially in the wake of the Wuhan lab pandemic, and his internationally-condemned crackdown in HongKong, which only triggered sharper fears in Taiwan against domination by the mainland. Xi Jinping was willing to engage in quid pro quo with Putin, offering him support on his Ukraine problem, in exchange for future Russian support on the Taiwan problem. At a minimum, a Russian invasion of Ukraine would help to distract attention and international headlines away from China, while putting faraway Eastern Europe on the front pages instead. Hence the very major mutual energy deals were signed between China and Russia, which would have the effect of buffering both from Western sanctions.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yeah they threatened to coup him if he sought an end to the war.

They who and coup him with what?

 

[ChickenTendies]

Here we're talking about the Ukrainian military's bombardment of the Donbass region, causing major civilian casualties. This may have in part motivated Putin to act militarily, with him seeing that the situation for ethnic Russians in Ukraine would only get worse and worse over time -- especially given that the hardline hawks in Ukraine's military were intransigent in their desire for war on Donbass. Remember that Zelensky's main central campaign platform in running for office was to end the Ukrainian military's war on Donbass, which was killing so many civilians there. And Zelensky then failed in his central objective to get the military to stop their war. The hardline Neo-Nazi elements, who have been promoted up the ranks of the military, simply held too much power and were too hardline to accept Zelensky's orders. Remember that Zelensky is a n00b to politics, who had never ever held any political office before running for President in 2019. He was just a TV star who ran for president, promising to end the war on the ethnic Russian enclaves of Donbass -- a war which the Neo-Nazi groups like Azov Battalion were spearheading and supplying the troops for. But Zelensky was unable to "bell the cat" and was forced to concede to them instead.
So the deadly war on Donbass continued, taking more ethnic Russian lives, which riled the Kremlin.

Add to that Xi Jinping's entry into the situation, to catalyze Putin's invasion. Xi was facing increased pressure from US and its allies against his govt, especially in the wake of the Wuhan lab pandemic, and his internationally-condemned crackdown in HongKong, which only triggered sharper fears in Taiwan against domination by the mainland. Xi Jinping was willing to engage in quid pro quo with Putin, offering him support on his Ukraine problem, in exchange for future Russian support on the Taiwan problem. At a minimum, a Russian invasion of Ukraine would help to distract attention and international headlines away from China, while putting faraway Eastern Europe on the front pages instead. Hence the very major mutual energy deals were signed between China and Russia, which would have the effect of buffering both from Western sanctions.

Get ready to start typing out those replies, you're gonna be very busy soon.

 

[Goshin]

Here we're talking about the Ukrainian military's bombardment of the Donbass region, causing major civilian casualties. This may have in part motivated Putin to act militarily, with him seeing that the situation for ethnic Russians in Ukraine would only get worse and worse over time -- especially given that the hardline hawks in Ukraine's military were intransigent in their desire for war on Donbass. Remember that Zelensky's main central campaign platform in running for office was to end the Ukrainian military's war on Donbass, which was killing so many civilians there. And Zelensky then failed in his central objective to get the military to stop their war. The hardline Neo-Nazi elements, who have been promoted up the ranks of the military, simply held too much power and were too hardline to accept Zelensky's orders. Remember that Zelensky is a n00b to politics, who had never ever held any political office before running for President in 2019. He was just a TV star who ran for president, promising to end the war on the ethnic Russian enclaves of Donbass -- a war which the Neo-Nazi groups like Azov Battalion were spearheading and supplying the troops for. But Zelensky was unable to "bell the cat" and was forced to concede to them instead.
So the deadly war on Donbass continued, taking more ethnic Russian lives, which riled the Kremlin.

Add to that Xi Jinping's entry into the situation, to catalyze Putin's invasion. Xi was facing increased pressure from US and its allies against his govt, especially in the wake of the Wuhan lab pandemic, and his internationally-condemned crackdown in HongKong, which only triggered sharper fears in Taiwan against domination by the mainland. Xi Jinping was willing to engage in quid pro quo with Putin, offering him support on his Ukraine problem, in exchange for future Russian support on the Taiwan problem. At a minimum, a Russian invasion of Ukraine would help to distract attention and international headlines away from China, while putting faraway Eastern Europe on the front pages instead. Hence the very major mutual energy deals were signed between China and Russia, which would have the effect of buffering both from Western sanctions.

Okay. Some of that I knew, some I didn't... some is supposition.

It doesn't change that I'm against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which I'm pretty sure was more about Putin's ambition than any compassionate concern about people in Donbass. Nor that I'm concerned that this war might escalate beyond Ukraine if we're all not careful.

 

[LostinThought]

Vladimir Zelensky, Ukraine's current president who is of Russian-speaking Jewish descent, campaigned for office on the platform of ceasing war on Donbass.

However, President Zelensky was not in charge of the military, and when he confronted them and ordered them to stand down, their hardliners pushed back and angrily refused.

The right-wing military hawks didn't see a mere Russian-speaking Jew as having the right to tell them - real Ukrainians - what to do on matters of war.

Zelensky was forced to concede to their demands to continue the war on Donbass -- the very war that he had promised to end as his central campaign platform for election.

How Ukraine’s Jewish President, Volodymyr Zelensky, Made Peace with Neo-Nazi Paramilitaries on Front Lines of War with Russia - Toward Freedom

While Western media deploys Volodymyr Zelensky’s Jewish heritage to refute accusations of Nazi influence in Ukraine, the president has ceded to neo-Nazi forces and now depends on them as front line fighters, report Alexander Rubinstein and Max Blumenthal.

towardfreedom.org

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky awarded Right Sector commander Dmytro Kotsyubaylo the “Hero of Ukraine”
commendation on December


Guess who/what Right Sector is, btw? We're not talking about The Price is Right, here.

He failed to make due on a campaign promise. Not something that is that much unusual for any political body in the world today.

 

[sanman]

Okay. Some of that I knew, some I didn't... some is supposition.

It doesn't change that I'm against Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which I'm pretty sure was more about Putin's ambition than any compassionate concern about people in Donbass. Nor that I'm concerned that this war might escalate beyond Ukraine if we're all not careful.

14,000 people killed by the Ukrainian military's seige on the ethnic Russian Donbass region -- the overwhelming majority of those killed were civilians, due to indiscriminate bombardment of residential areas.
See the United Nations' own figures -- unless you feel they're also a stooge for the Kremlin too.

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf

 

[Goshin]

14,000 people killed by the Ukrainian military's seige on the ethnic Russian Donbass region -- the overwhelming majority of those killed were civilians, due to indiscriminate bombardment of residential areas.
See the United Nations' own figures -- unless you feel they're also a stooge for the Kremlin too.

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf

Okay. That's bad.

So is Russia invading Ukraine, seeking to conquer the entire country and the capital, etc. They could have just occupied the disputed territories and defended them... this is not that.

 

[sanman]

He failed to make due on a campaign promise. Not something that is that much unusual for any political body in the world today.

Okay. That's bad.

So is Russia invading Ukraine, seeking to conquer the entire country and the capital, etc. They could have just occupied the disputed territories and defended them... this is not that.

OSCE (Organization for Security & Cooperation in Europe) have their own monitors in and around the conflict zones, who report that the majority of ceasefire violations were by the Ukrainian military against the Donbass regions -- and this includes the sudden and indiscriminate shelling of residential areas

Daily and spot reports from the Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine

www.osce.org

TLDR: Neo-Nazis spearheading the siege on Donbass get to blow up the ethnic Russians they ethnically hate, as part of ethnic cleansing.

But instead let's just send them deadly weapons from NATO while saying "blahblah Putin Hitler blahblah"

 

[Tigerace117]

The Nazi smear is Putin propaganda.

The Azov thugs ARE, in fact, Nazis, and they have full state backing.That’s an objective fact.

 

[Goshin]

OSCE (Organization for Security & Cooperation in Europe) have their own monitors in and around the conflict zones, who report that the majority of ceasefire violations were by the Ukrainian military against the Donbass regions -- and this includes the sudden and indiscriminate shelling of residential areas

Daily and spot reports from the Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine

www.osce.org

TLDR: Neo-Nazis spearheading the siege on Donbass get to blow up the ethnic Russians they ethnically hate, as part of ethnic cleansing.

But instead let's just say "blahblah Putin Hitler blahblah"

Ok.

So where is it in my interest, as an American, for Putin to conquer Ukraine? Doesn't seem like it is.

 

[sanman]

Ok.

So where is it in my interest, as an American, for Putin to conquer Ukraine? Doesn't seem like it is.

Based on his past advocacy, Putin supports a federalized constitution in Ukraine, for a govt which can accommodate all ethnic groups beyond just ethnic Ukrainians, thus allowing it to function as a neutral buffer state between Russia and the West. That's at least better than the tripartite govt which US & NATO set up among the warring ethnic groups in Bosnia, after invading them.

A federalized constitution can at least take into account the aspiration of all the ethnic groups of Ukraine, beyond just only ethnic Ukrainians.

I don't think Putin's people properly planned out the invasion itself, though.

 

[Goshin]

Not sure my last reply posted.

I said you seem very well versed in explaining why Russia is the good guy in this...suspiciously so.

 

[Michael Cole]

Not sure my last reply posted.

I said you seem very well versed in explaining why Russia is the good guy in this...suspiciously so.

Well versed in propaganda. It only works on stupid people.

Right here:

Based on his past advocacy, Putin supports a federalized constitution in Ukraine, for a govt which can accommodate all ethnic groups beyond just ethnic Ukrainians, thus allowing it to function as a neutral buffer state between Russia and the West.

Invading a country because you want to change its government is against international law. One might call it Nazi-like.

Total bullshit. Putin is the Nazi. The OP supports Nazism, apparently. Free country...or maybe not...

 

[sanman]

Not sure my last reply posted.

I said you seem very well versed in explaining why Russia is the good guy in this...suspiciously so.

I think we need to see the other side of the story, when everyone else is only presenting one side of it.

 

[FreedomFromAll]

Here we're talking about the Ukrainian military's bombardment of the Donbass region, causing major civilian casualties. This may have in part motivated Putin to act militarily, with him seeing that the situation for ethnic Russians in Ukraine would only get worse and worse over time -- especially given that the hardline hawks in Ukraine's military were intransigent in their desire for war on Donbass. Remember that Zelensky's main central campaign platform in running for office was to end the Ukrainian military's war on Donbass, which was killing so many civilians there. And Zelensky then failed in his central objective to get the military to stop their war. The hardline Neo-Nazi elements, who have been promoted up the ranks of the military, simply held too much power and were too hardline to accept Zelensky's orders. Remember that Zelensky is a n00b to politics, who had never ever held any political office before running for President in 2019. He was just a TV star who ran for president, promising to end the war on the ethnic Russian enclaves of Donbass -- a war which the Neo-Nazi groups like Azov Battalion were spearheading and supplying the troops for. But Zelensky was unable to "bell the cat" and was forced to concede to them instead.
So the deadly war on Donbass continued, taking more ethnic Russian lives, which riled the Kremlin.

Add to that Xi Jinping's entry into the situation, to catalyze Putin's invasion. Xi was facing increased pressure from US and its allies against his govt, especially in the wake of the Wuhan lab pandemic, and his internationally-condemned crackdown in HongKong, which only triggered sharper fears in Taiwan against domination by the mainland. Xi Jinping was willing to engage in quid pro quo with Putin, offering him support on his Ukraine problem, in exchange for future Russian support on the Taiwan problem. At a minimum, a Russian invasion of Ukraine would help to distract attention and international headlines away from China, while putting faraway Eastern Europe on the front pages instead. Hence the very major mutual energy deals were signed between China and Russia, which would have the effect of buffering both from Western sanctions.

How long until your vpn no longer works?

 

[Michael Cole]

I think we need to see the other side of the story, when everyone else is only presenting one side of it.

Like the Holocaust?

 

[sanman]

Well versed in propaganda. It only works on stupid people.

Right here:

Based on his past advocacy, Putin supports a federalized constitution in Ukraine, for a govt which can accommodate all ethnic groups beyond just ethnic Ukrainians, thus allowing it to function as a neutral buffer state between Russia and the West.

Invading a country because you want to change its government is against international law. One might call it Nazi-like.

The US imposed a constitution on Japan - General Douglas MacArthur wrote it.
It imposed one on Germany as well.
It imposed one on Bosnia as well.
It imposed one on Iraq as well.

Total bullshit. Putin is the Nazi. The OP supports Nazism, apparently. Free country...or maybe not...

Ohh, and who are these people -- they're not Nazis? Are they freakin Sgt Schultz from Hogan's Heroes?

You'll call a Canadian trucker a Nazi, you'll call a Fox News host a Nazi, you'll call ICE Nazis too --- ohhh, but these other guys are choirboys to you:

 

[Michael Cole]

The US imposed a constitution on Japan - General Douglas MacArthur wrote it.
It imposed one on Germany as well.
It imposed one on Bosnia as well.
It imposed one on Iraq as well. `

Great history lesson. Again, it only works on stupid people.

Ohh, and who are these people -- they're not Nazis? Are they freakin Sgt Schultz from Hogan's Heroes?

You'll call a Canadian trucker a Nazi, you'll call a Fox News host a Nazi, you'll call ICE Nazis too --- ohhh, but these other guys are choirboys to you:

You've enlightened me. You're not a russian troll. You're one of those people propaganda works on.

 

[Fledermaus]

14,000 people killed by the Ukrainian military's seige on the ethnic Russian Donbass region -- the overwhelming majority of those killed were civilians, due to indiscriminate bombardment of residential areas.
See the United Nations' own figures -- unless you feel they're also a stooge for the Kremlin too.

https://ukraine.un.org/sites/default/files/2022-02/Conflict-related%20civilian%20casualties%20as%20of%2031%20December%202021%20%28rev%2027%20January%202022%29%20corr%20EN_0.pdf

What is another name for the population of Donbass?

UKRAINIANS