Has Trump made illegal immigration worse?

[CriticalThought]

It feels that way. One sure way to get help from others is to constantly belittle and threaten them...or at least that appears to be the basis of Trump logic. I think a president who had not gone on an attack of Mexico and instead had enlisted them in a collaborative effort to manage the Central American humanitarian crisis would have found sensible approaches to managing the massive influx of refugees seeking asylum. Trump just loves to use rhetoric and tough talk to paint us into corners and although it airs well to his base, it appears to undermine the agenda his base supports of truly reducing illegal immigration.

Nobody in Mexico or Central America really has any incentive to assist Trump in reducing the influx of asylum seekers and I don't think that is just because Trump is bombast, but it appears we have effectively locked in hundreds of thousands of seasonal illegal workers who would have left of their own accord but now are choosing to stay year round because of how much harder they perceive it would be to return. The cost of tracking down, arresting, and deporting those folks would be astronomical when before they would work a few months and leave. Just bad policy on Trump's part.

Trump evoked law and order as his mantra but now that he has to work within the law he can only complain about it and blame Democrats. Immigration policy would be easy if it were "bad hombres" but we are talking about thousands of families fleeing from a really bad situation.

This should be an international effort where refugee camps are set up across the world are set up and military and diplomatic options are utilized to stabilize the region so these people can return to their home countries. I guess Trump can call on our allies to assist us in this endeavor...oh wait...he has been a constant dick to them as well. Well maybe he can use his master dealmanship to find a bipartisan solution...oh wait...the Democrats hate him as much as the Republicans hated Obama. Who knew that being an ass to everyone but the people who voted for you and dictators would make immigration policy so hard?

 

[Mycroft]

It feels that way. One sure way to get help from others is to constantly belittle and threaten them...or at least that appears to be the basis of Trump logic. I think a president who had not gone on an attack of Mexico and instead had enlisted them in a collaborative effort to manage the Central American humanitarian crisis would have found sensible approaches to managing the massive influx of refugees seeking asylum. Trump just loves to use rhetoric and tough talk to paint us into corners and although it airs well to his base, it appears to undermine the agenda his base supports of truly reducing illegal immigration.

Nobody in Mexico or Central America really has any incentive to assist Trump in reducing the influx of asylum seekers and I don't think that is just because Trump is bombast, but it appears we have effectively locked in hundreds of thousands of seasonal illegal workers who would have left of their own accord but now are choosing to stay year round because of how much harder they perceive it would be to return. The cost of tracking down, arresting, and deporting those folks would be astronomical when before they would work a few months and leave. Just bad policy on Trump's part.

Trump evoked law and order as his mantra but now that he has to work within the law he can only complain about it and blame Democrats. Immigration policy would be easy if it were "bad hombres" but we are talking about thousands of families fleeing from a really bad situation.

This should be an international effort where refugee camps are set up across the world are set up and military and diplomatic options are utilized to stabilize the region so these people can return to their home countries. I guess Trump can call on our allies to assist us in this endeavor...oh wait...he has been a constant dick to them as well. Well maybe he can use his master dealmanship to find a bipartisan solution...oh wait...the Democrats hate him as much as the Republicans hated Obama. Who knew that being an ass to everyone but the people who voted for you and dictators would make immigration policy so hard?

1. Past administrations have tried the "nice guy" approach with those other countries. It hasn't worked.

2. Mexico and Central American have a very powerful incentive to work with Trump...money.

3. When it comes to the law, Congress has to step up. All Trump can do is tell them what they SHOULD do. It's up to them to do it.

And...do you REALLY want the US to start sending troops to those Central American countries? Really?

 

[Casper]

1. Past administrations have tried the "nice guy" approach with those other countries. It hasn't worked.

2. Mexico and Central American have a very powerful incentive to work with Trump...money.

3. When it comes to the law, Congress has to step up. All Trump can do is tell them what they SHOULD do. It's up to them to do it.

And...do you REALLY want the US to start sending troops to those Central American countries? Really?

Does not seem that Trump's method is working either.
Central America, maybe, Mexico, not so much because what hurts them also hurts us.
You do know that Congress does not work for the President, don't you? You do now.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Absabygodlutely! He has, and he’s brutalized little children and made already miserable people exponentially more miserable.

 

[Mycroft]

Does not seem that Trump's method is working either.
Central America, maybe, Mexico, not so much because what hurts them also hurts us.
You do know that Congress does not work for the President, don't you? You do now.

1. & 2. Mexico is rounding up migrants and sending them back to their countries. It's working. We'll see if Mexico is serious about continuing.

3. Yes, in effect that's what I said. Congress has to step up and fix the laws to fully solve the illegal immigrant/asylum problems.

 

[CriticalThought]

1. Past administrations have tried the "nice guy" approach with those other countries. It hasn't worked.

It appears to have at least worked considerably better than what Trump is doing.

2. Mexico and Central American have a very powerful incentive to work with Trump...money.

There are other developed countries willing to trade and attacking financially has only worsened the influx of refugees from what I can tell. How is this good policy?

3. When it comes to the law, Congress has to step up. All Trump can do is tell them what they SHOULD do. It's up to them to do it.

If Trump couldn't get them to make substantial changes to immigration policy before when he had both houses of Congress, what luck will he have now? Even if he wins in 2020, it seems doubtful the political calculas will change much in Congress given how polarizing a president he is. Maybe if a centrist Democrat wins, something can get done.

And...do you REALLY want the US to start sending troops to those Central American countries? Really?

I want an international coalition to take on the cartels that are the actual cause of this issue. Trump is more concerned with sending troops to deal with the victims of it.

 

[Casper]

1. & 2. Mexico is rounding up migrants and sending them back to their countries. It's working. We'll see if Mexico is serious about continuing.

3. Yes, in effect that's what I said. Congress has to step up and fix the laws to fully solve the illegal immigrant/asylum problems.

I asked this if you in another thread and never got an answer, let's see if you can do better this time, what laws should they be passing in Congress to please trump, has he made any suggestions???

 

[Mycroft]

It appears to have at least worked considerably better than what Trump is doing.



There are other developed countries willing to trade and attacking financially has only worsened the influx of refugees from what I can tell. How is this good policy?



If Trump couldn't get them to make substantial changes to immigration policy before when he had both houses of Congress, what luck will he have now? Even if he wins in 2020, it seems doubtful the political calculas will change much in Congress given how polarizing a president he is. Maybe if a centrist Democrat wins, something can get done.



I want an international coalition to take on the cartels that are the actual cause of this issue. Trump is more concerned with sending troops to deal with the victims of it.

We still have the same problems we had over 30 years ago when Reagan got suckered by the Dems and passed out amnesty. Now, at least we have a President who won't stop trying to deal with the issue.

When I talk about "Congress", I'm talking about both parties. Neither one wants to deal with illegal immigration because their big money donors don't want them to deal with immigration. But that doesn't negate the fact that Congress HAS to step up. Trump can't do it all.

Before you start talking about "international coalition", perhaps you should talk to Mexico and see if THEY want such a thing in their country. Perhaps THEY should be the ones to ask for that, eh? Or do you think Trump should dictate to them?

 

[Chomsky]

1. Past administrations have tried the "nice guy" approach with those other countries. It hasn't worked.

2. Mexico and Central American have a very powerful incentive to work with Trump...money.

3. When it comes to the law, Congress has to step up. All Trump can do is tell them what they SHOULD do. It's up to them to do it.

And...do you REALLY want the US to start sending troops to those Central American countries? Really?

I feel I must point-out though, that Trump's hard-guy ploy has not only not worked, but illegal crossings have been increasing since he started his Presidency.

 

[Mycroft]

I asked this if you in another thread and never got an answer, let's see if you can do better this time, what laws should they be passing in Congress to please trump, has he made any suggestions???

Yes. He has.

1. End catch and release.
2. End chain migration.
3. Require asylum seekers to apply in their own countries.
4. End this "step one foot on US soil and you're safe" policy.

I can think of a few more issues Congress can deal with that Trump hasn't gotten to yet.

1. Make E-Verify mandatory.
2. Stiffen penalties for hiring illegal aliens.
3. Actually do something about these so-called dreamers...either give them full access to US citizenship or send them packing...but deal with it.
4. Crack down on sanctuary cities.

This is all stuff that only Congress can deal with...and should deal with. Except they don't want to.

 

[Mycroft]

I feel I must point-out though, that Trump's hard-guy ploy has not only not worked, but illegal crossings have been increasing since he started his Presidency.

It's not that simple.

Mark Morgan, the Border Control Chief under Obama, explains why in this video. Go to 5:25...or better yet, watch the whole thing.

 

[Chomsky]

It's not that simple.

Mark Morgan, the Border Control Chief under Obama, explains why in this video. Go to 5:25...or better yet, watch the whole thing.

Thanks, but this seems to be what I was saying; that Trump's policies are not working. More migrants are coming over as his Presidency goes on, and more are staying (according to your video).

Trump has to start learning how to lead and form coalitions to move legislation forward. He also has to work with Mexico and the other countries to address the problems. It's obvious his "blow everything up" methods are simply not working.

 

[Mycroft]

Thanks, but this seems to be what I was saying; that Trump's policies are not working. More migrants are coming over as his Presidency goes on, and more are staying (according to your video).

Trump has to start learning how to lead and form coalitions to move legislation forward. He also has to work with Mexico and the other countries to address the problems. It's obvious his "blow everything up" methods are simply not working.

It would be worse without Trump and his actions.

When it comes to Congress, there is no "form coalitions" in play. Congress opposes Trump. That's just the plain fact of the matter.

So what we have is Trump trying to deal with a crisis that has existed for decades...and Congress not doing their job.

 

[CriticalThought]

We still have the same problems we had over 30 years ago when Reagan got suckered by the Dems and passed out amnesty. Now, at least we have a President who won't stop trying to deal with the issue.

When I talk about "Congress", I'm talking about both parties. Neither one wants to deal with illegal immigration because their big money donors don't want them to deal with immigration. But that doesn't negate the fact that Congress HAS to step up. Trump can't do it all.

Before you start talking about "international coalition", perhaps you should talk to Mexico and see if THEY want such a thing in their country. Perhaps THEY should be the ones to ask for that, eh? Or do you think Trump should dictate to them?

Um... apparently you haven't been paying attention. All Trump has done is dictate to Mexico and demand more concessions. It also belies a major point folk like you seem to ignore. The US was a major contributor to the current situation in Central America and Mexico knows it. If you took a crap on your neighbor's yard and your other neighbor witnessed it and was not overly eager to help you out when you were confronted by the consequences of your actions, could you really fault them? We are reaping what we sowed.

 

[Mycroft]

Um... apparently you haven't been paying attention. All Trump has done is dictate to Mexico and demand more concessions. It also belies a major point folk like you seem to ignore. The US was a major contributor to the current situation in Central America and Mexico knows it. If you took a crap on your neighbor's yard and your other neighbor witnessed it and was not overly eager to help you out when you were confronted by the consequences of your actions, could you really fault them? We are reaping what we sowed.

1. The US isn't responsible for the current situation in Central America. Those countries are responsible for their own current situation.

2. Trump has done much more than "dictate to Mexico and demand more concessions". In fact, he hasn't demanded any concessions from Mexico. He has given them a choice: Stop migrants from free transit through their country to the US border or suffer the consequences.

 

[Chomsky]

It would be worse without Trump and his actions.

When it comes to Congress, there is no "form coalitions" in play. Congress opposes Trump. That's just the plain fact of the matter.

So what we have is Trump trying to deal with a crisis that has existed for decades...and Congress not doing their job.

Here's the thing: Trump is the President, it's his job to lead.

Obama had a huge spiking in illegal immigration in 2014, and immediately addressed it in a multi-approach multi-pronged manner, punitively, politically, and socially.

Besides increasing border security and building more semi-permanent housing, Obama hired more immigration judges and established outreach programs with the governments of the countries in question, to slow down the migration at the source. And he did much of this legislatively. Ironically, he appropriated quite a bit of fencing, including the fencing that Trump narcissisticly affixed his name to earlier this week.

All Trump has done is blow everything up with child-like temper tantrums, getting far less than he should, if he gets everything at all. A perfect example is when he cut a deal with Schumer & Pelosi for his wall & DACA, then ripped it apart later that day. Now he has nothing. Even worse, he blew-up his relationship with Congress, shutting down the government, only to get less than he was earlier offered before the shutdown. And just now, he just killed the new USMCA and some of the small gains it provided; no way is Congress going to pass something he just superseded.

And we see this with Trump, over, and over, and over. I'm afraid Trump is becoming a placeholder until 2020, with no substantive work being done on comprehensive immigration reform until he's gone. Which is a shame, because there indeed seems to be a growing problem at the border that needs resolution, as it did under Obama. Only under Obama, he at least got it decreased; and with no drama.

 

[Mycroft]

Here's the thing: Trump is the President, it's his job to lead.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Same with Trump leading Congress.

 

[Chomsky]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Same with Trump leading Congress.

Then, it's time to get someone that can.

How did Obama get the current 660 miles of fencing up, including the repaired fencing Trump was taking credit for? How did G.W. get the Secure fence Act passed, that gave Obama the tools to erect his fencing?

Trump isn't up to the job. It's going to take a comprehensive reform approach, and Trump had it with the fence/DACA deal, but he wasn't up to the task to see it through. I'm afraid there's not going to be any comprehensive reform that's badly needed, until a future administration, probably one that is headed by a Dem.

(I also noticed you didn't comment on Obama's policies working)

 

[Logician Man]

@ OP...Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you go popping off and claiming ( falsely ) that another country is going to pay for 'your' wall, that country is not going to take kindly to such pompous, arrogant, illiterate nonsense, and be much less likely to want to work with your country on much of anything.... and the constant demeaning of that country's people with over the top, negative, blanket statements just adds more fuel to the fire.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Not protecting the borders, not enforcing immigration laws and allowing sanctuary cities has mad immigration worse. Trump is trying to do those things and the left doesn't want it.

 

[azgreg]

Then, it's time to get someone that can.

How did Obama get the current 660 miles of fencing up, including the repaired fencing Trump was taking credit for? How did G.W. get the Secure fence Act passed, that gave Obama the tools to erect his fencing?

Trump isn't up to the job. It's going to take a comprehensive reform approach, and Trump had it with the fence/DACA deal, but he wasn't up to the task to see it through. I'm afraid there's not going to be any comprehensive reform that's badly needed, until a future administration, probably one that is headed by a Dem.

(I also noticed you didn't comment on Obama's policies working)

These a great points. Something else we need to realize is that illegal immigration isn't driven by US policy but rather conditions in their home countries.

 

[Chomsky]

These a great points. Something else we need to realize is that illegal immigration isn't driven by US policy but rather conditions in their home countries.

Thank you.

But - I'd argue that easy access to illegal jobs in the States can indeed drive illegal immigration.

 

[Mycroft]

Then, it's time to get someone that can.

How did Obama get the current 660 miles of fencing up, including the repaired fencing Trump was taking credit for? How did G.W. get the Secure fence Act passed, that gave Obama the tools to erect his fencing?

Trump isn't up to the job. It's going to take a comprehensive reform approach, and Trump had it with the fence/DACA deal, but he wasn't up to the task to see it through. I'm afraid there's not going to be any comprehensive reform that's badly needed, until a future administration, probably one that is headed by a Dem.

(I also noticed you didn't comment on Obama's policies working)

Here's how Obama, Bush and others dealt with the fence: Obama's Border Fence . NOW on PBS Obama...the great leader, had problems with Congress, too.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I feel I must point-out though, that Trump's hard-guy ploy has not only not worked, but illegal crossings have been increasing since he started his Presidency.

Jobs are enticing.

 

[Chomsky]

Here's how Obama, Bush and others dealt with the fence: Obama's Border Fence . NOW on PBS Obama...the great leader, had problems with Congress, too.

Your website is telling me I need to download software, so I have no idea of the point you're attempting to make. But the point I was making is that G.W. & Obama managed to get it done (660 mi fence + decreased illegal immigration), while Trump can't or won't.