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Has time came for unification?

So I went to Saint Gin (Shëngjin) city in Albania for a brief vacation of the sea.

For nearly a decade (i.e., until 1939) the city was named "City of Wilson" after the former USA president. It was named as such from the then President Noli. Details as to what brought for such a behavior were not shown in the statue of Wilson in white in the middle of the walk road there.

During our travel we had to go through the "border" between Dardania and Albania. The "border" is passed only with ID cards, no passports necessary.

Since kids do not have ID cards they should bring their passports. We did not brought passports with us for usually the authorities do not check for ID's neither, let alone passports.

Well this one did. He made us turn back and get the passports! Ironically though right when we had the passports different authorities there did not ask for any documents the second time!

So this is the reality of this "border" between us. I do not think that neither side really recognizes it or takes it seriously. Anyone I spoke to was fund of the idea of border removal.

Apart from this little mess Saint Gin was great.

Shengjin Travel and Tourism
 
Albanians are descent of Illyrians (which existed approximately 1000 BC).
The origin of the Illyrians still remains a problem for modern prehistorians.

Dardania (which in Albanian means Pear) was part of Illyrians.
The Slavs migrated to these lands many eras after.
Who ever think Kosovo belong to Serbia by ethnicity is so inaccurate.

However, the Balcan always been a land of continuous conquers.
Roman Empire and ancient Greeks used to conquer these land many many times and intended to change their religion.
Ottom empire conquered these lands for about 500 years and turned most of Albanians into Muslims.

The first organization that opposed the partition of Albania and pushed for greater autonomy was the League of Prizren, formed on 1 June 1878, in Prizren, Kosovo. The League used military force to prevent the annexing of northern Albanian areas assigned to Montenegro and Serbia, and southern Albanian areas assigned to Greece by the Congress of Berlin.
Albania's independence was recognized by the Conference of London on 29 July 1913, but the drawing of the borders of Albania ignored the demographic realities of the time.
The conference intended to arbitrate between the warring powers as to territorial acquisitions, and also to determine the future of Albania, whose independence was proclaimed during the conflict.
Many lands were given to Montenegro.
Kosovo to Serbia.
1/2 of today Macedonia to Macedonia.
Many lands to Greece.

Albania is so ancient and the borders have been changing in many eras.

It is clear unclear is half of Macedonia belong to Albania or Greece. Although 40% of population (it is 22.9 officially) and 1/2 of parliament are Albanians, they speak Albania in official institutions, schools, parliament. Albania is revognized as second language.
If Albanians of Macedonia (and Macedonia itself) come to a point to join Albania, believe me, it will make Greece and Serbia to take their guns.

As for Kosovo ......

The Serbia knows very well, that Kosovo is not part of them and it never been.
The are just using the Kosovo to take a big part of cake on EU invitation.
The minority of Serbia in Kosovo is very small and the Serbian of North were just families from South Serbia who migrated at the North of Kosovo directed by Milosevic.
They never been on those lands. However it is such a small piece of cake.
________________________________________________________________________
Kosovo to join Albania

I wished so, but unfortunately, we will not see it to happen.
It is so early.

I believe that one day it may happen but not the way you think.
The border pass with Montenegro is free. No need passport.
The relationship with Macedonia are quiet well, and de facto Albanian minority present 40%. If Balcan ever is messed up by wars, Macedonians would prefer to get sided with Albania rather then Greece.
The called "National road" highway (connecting Albania sea port of Durres with Kosovo) was constructed by US. Many believe this was for US's military purposes.
During conflict of 2001 in Macedonia, where the govern sent army forces to fight some Albanian nationalist who were attacking continuously the police forces, NATO intervene to place the peace and pushed the Macedonians and Albanians to an agreement which more benefited the Albanians than Macedonians.

Our governments have been discussing to pass border free of taxes for export-import of Albanian-Kosovo goods.
This may happen even with Montenegro where in south most of local elected are Albanians and they lobby for it.
The tools that Albania may join Kosovo are through the economy and not the borders.
Besides of that, our politicians as well as your politicians will never allow this to happen.
Most of people as in Kosovo, even in Albania admire a lot the politics and do not wish to share these lands and profits with each other.
Sad, but this is the truth. The Nationalism on our countries is dead.

Many times Albania was called as the bridge of Europe as it is the best point of connection between the East and West of EU.
This is the main reason this country continuously been conquered or attacked during all it's history.
And the main reason we are the most ally country of US on Balcan for military and secret services purposes. As well as with Turkey.
 
Albanians are descent of Illyrians (which existed approximately 1000 BC).
The origin of the Illyrians still remains a problem for modern prehistorians.

Dardania (which in Albanian means Pear) was part of Illyrians.
The Slavs migrated to these lands many eras after.
Who ever think Kosovo belong to Serbia by ethnicity is so inaccurate.

However, the Balcan always been a land of continuous conquers.
Roman Empire and ancient Greeks used to conquer these land many many times and intended to change their religion.
Ottom empire conquered these lands for about 500 years and turned most of Albanians into Muslims.

The first organization that opposed the partition of Albania and pushed for greater autonomy was the League of Prizren, formed on 1 June 1878, in Prizren, Kosovo. The League used military force to prevent the annexing of northern Albanian areas assigned to Montenegro and Serbia, and southern Albanian areas assigned to Greece by the Congress of Berlin.
Albania's independence was recognized by the Conference of London on 29 July 1913, but the drawing of the borders of Albania ignored the demographic realities of the time.
The conference intended to arbitrate between the warring powers as to territorial acquisitions, and also to determine the future of Albania, whose independence was proclaimed during the conflict.
Many lands were given to Montenegro.
Kosovo to Serbia.
1/2 of today Macedonia to Macedonia.
Many lands to Greece.

Albania is so ancient and the borders have been changing in many eras.

Tung (Hi) Coin.

That name of Dardania that you speak of, that too is fresh and an invented term designed to conquer. I was told Serbs dubbed Dardania like that, and did so in 1912. It is otherwise meaningless in Albanian.

It is clear unclear is half of Macedonia belong to Albania or Greece. Although 40% of population (it is 22.9 officially) and 1/2 of parliament are Albanians, they speak Albania in official institutions, schools, parliament. Albania is revognized as second language.
If Albanians of Macedonia (and Macedonia itself) come to a point to join Albania, believe me, it will make Greece and Serbia to take their guns.

Some of users here proposed plebiscite as a democratic solution to people wanting to live with other countries. Why do you think that Greece and Serbia would oppose such a democratic outcome if Albanians would vote with whom they wished to live with?

Kosovo to join Albania

I wished so, but unfortunately, we will not see it to happen.
It is so early.

Our governments have been discussing to pass border free of taxes for export-import of Albanian-Kosovo goods.

This may happen even with Montenegro where in south most of local elected are Albanians and they lobby for it.

The tools that Albania may join Kosovo are through the economy and not the borders.

Besides of that, our politicians as well as your politicians will never allow this to happen.

It is so early to unite economically or to remove borders altogether?

Most of people as in Kosovo, even in Albania admire a lot the politics and do not wish to share these lands and profits with each other.
Sad, but this is the truth. The Nationalism on our countries is dead.

Do you have sources for these claims? The ones I spoke to did not say so.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. It has more to do with patriotism and uniting so as to survive the unexpected that the future may bring us.

Many times Albania was called as the bridge of Europe as it is the best point of connection between the East and West of EU.

This is the main reason this country continuously been conquered or attacked during all it's history.

And the main reason we are the most ally country of US on Balcan for military and secret services purposes. As well as with Turkey.

Okay.
 
Tung (Hi) Coin.
Do you have sources for these claims? The ones I spoke to did not say so.
Your prime minister and my prime minister made it clear enough every time they were asked by journalists.
A poll in Kosovo in 2005 found that 90% backed independence, fewer than 10% wanted union with Albania.

Albania and Kosovo: What happened to Greater Albania? | The Economist

It is early to unite the borders (tho i believe it won't happen like that way)
Why Serbia and Greece would oppose an union between us.
For the same reason most of wars began on Balcan. The name "Greater Albania".

We achieved many unification agreements in economy.
We also achieved in Police forces. Police high patrol forces of Kosovo patrol together with Albanian forces on south Kosovo and North Albania.
We made a big deal for armed forces. :) which fear a lot greeks and serbians because of the conditions of the agreement.
The agreement consist in the entry and exit procedures of military equipment and personnel into each state.


They oppose because "Greater Albania" if it will ever unite, is very big indeed.
Albania and Kosovo signed army deals, fears of “Great Albania” arise – InSerbia News
LiveLeak.com - American Turkish plan "Greater Albania''
Ethnic_albania.jpg
 
Your prime minister and my prime minister made it clear enough every time they were asked by journalists.
A poll in Kosovo in 2005 found that 90% backed independence, fewer than 10% wanted union with Albania.

Albania and Kosovo: What happened to Greater Albania? | The Economist

It is early to unite the borders (tho i believe it won't happen like that way)
Why Serbia and Greece would oppose an union between us.
For the same reason most of wars began on Balcan. The name "Greater Albania".

We achieved many unification agreements in economy.
We also achieved in Police forces. Police high patrol forces of Kosovo patrol together with Albanian forces on south Kosovo and North Albania.
We made a big deal for armed forces. :) which fear a lot greeks and serbians because of the conditions of the agreement.
The agreement consist in the entry and exit procedures of military equipment and personnel into each state.


They oppose because "Greater Albania" if it will ever unite, is very big indeed.
Albania and Kosovo signed army deals, fears of “Great Albania” arise – InSerbia News
LiveLeak.com - American Turkish plan "Greater Albania''
View attachment 67151952

The word "Greater Albania" is an invention to stop Dardania and Albania from uniting. They fear this their illusion while we fear their real propaganda. We are still called "terrorists" in RT.

Also "Greater Albania" I think has to do with projecting the internal needs of greater Greece and Serbia. Serbia attempted in reality since 1878 and successfully became 3 times as big and think that now we will do the same. This hegemony design of "Greater Albania" goes way back since the Ottoman Empire was retreating. But it is them by fact of propaganda and active politics (see what happened to Yougoslavia) whom want to grow at other countries demise.

I do not see how Dardania joining with Albania fits their description of "Greater Albania" anyway. Places in Macedonia, Greece, Montenegro, and Serbia that mostly consist of Albanians should remain within political administrative borders of future EU.

But we are 95% Albanian here, and we wish to join Albania. Considering active propaganda, and the unknown future who may ruin countries that guarantee stability and peace in Dardania, joining with you in Albania, especially since you are a NATO member, would make things more stable here. For one if Dardania were to join with Albania they would perhaps think twice before attacking again as they did in: 1878, 1912, 1918, 1944, and 1999.

I mean, the saying is if we do not learn from history then it is bound to repeat itself!
 
Time to resolve that ethnic BS once and for all.

I say, let Serbs from Kosovo and Albanians in Serbia (if any, I don't know) swap. Then deport EVERY Albanian within Serbia whether s/he likes it or not. Then build a wall on the boarder with Kosovo, 3 m high and shoot every human being that jumps over it, without warning. Then write a law forbidding any Albanian to ever gain an Serbian citizenship, not even in marriage. Only transit and busyness matters should be allowed. And that's about it. ;)
 
Time to resolve that ethnic BS once and for all.

I say, let Serbs from Kosovo and Albanians in Serbia (if any, I don't know) swap. Then deport EVERY Albanian within Serbia whether s/he likes it or not. Then build a wall on the boarder with Kosovo, 3 m high and shoot every human being that jumps over it, without warning. Then write a law forbidding any Albanian to ever gain an Serbian citizenship, not even in marriage. Only transit and busyness matters should be allowed. And that's about it. ;)

You said it Canell!

LMAO! :lamo
 

I say this BS of greater Albania comes from Serbian and Greek projections. They have their nationalism and the tendency to grow with hegemony and have done so at our cost since the 19th century. There are very well documented hegemony tendencies such as Serbian Nacertanje and Greek Megali Idea:

[Projekat Rastko] Dusan T. Batakovic: Ilija Garasanin's Nacertanije: A Reassesment

Megali Idea.jpg

Those nationalism driven hegemony projects failed. RT keeps these wounds fresh, and they project their plans unto us. So now I guess they think that we will be after hegemony at these modern times. So they invented "Greater Albania" what should be analogous to their Nacertanje and Megali Idea.

Makes sense. But it is not the case. We want to be with Albania so as to stop another potential attack from Serbia which would be consistent with several attacks that have occurred in our history (e.g., 1878, 1912, 1918, 1989, and 1999). Russian Television certainly helps them keep this hate fresh.

All it is stopping them and that could stop them is NATO. Albania is a member and by merging we would be also in NATO as Albanians.
 
Those nationalism driven hegemony projects failed. RT keeps these wounds fresh, and they project their plans unto us. So now I guess they think that we will be after hegemony at these modern times. So they invented "Greater Albania" what should be analogous to their Nacertanje and Megali Idea.

Makes sense. But it is not the case. We want to be with Albania so as to stop another potential attack from Serbia which would be consistent with several attacks that have occurred in our history (e.g., 1878, 1912, 1918, 1989, and 1999). Russian Television certainly helps them keep this hate fresh.

All it is stopping them and that could stop them is NATO. Albania is a member and by merging we would be also in NATO as Albanians.

However, with the last military agreement between our countries besides the fact that Albanians troops are free to walk and act under NATO standards and vice versa (in case of an attack Albania is free to enter and exit on Kosovo lands), also the Kosovo troops are free to join Albanian army as well as Albanians to join Kosovo army.
On these terms at one point you joined Albania.
Even on economic terms it's a similar story.

The way i don't believe it may happen (like having a map of a single country with both Albania and Kosovo in one) is due to facts that none of albanian politicians, not the kosovo ones, want something like this. We as people are so ambitious to politics and govern and we don't share anything among each others even on now days conditions.
Your prime minister does not want something like that because he knows very well that he won't ever be a prime minister of the new country as well as our left parties do not wish something like this.
In Albania people are divided, north support the right and south the west. And most of Kosovo people support the right in Albania and prime minister Sali Berisha. This made leftist accuses many times the rights (who were in power) as they were migrating officially Kosovo people to win elections.
It sound stupid but it is true at a point. We mostly fight each others when it come to politics and power.
And wee both are very fragile on internal conflicts.

Anyway, the sings for an union seems to be there (just that it is happening with some modern tools) and mostly the US is supporting it.
 
Would this state ever have come into being or survived 5 minutes without massive outside intervention?

That is not usually the criteria for a state being viable. Being able to resist annexation is not a normal standard.
 
However, with the last military agreement between our countries besides the fact that Albanians troops are free to walk and act under NATO standards and vice versa (in case of an attack Albania is free to enter and exit on Kosovo lands), also the Kosovo troops are free to join Albanian army as well as Albanians to join Kosovo army.
On these terms at one point you joined Albania.
Even on economic terms it's a similar story.

Your military has not entered Dardania even when we are free. World wide NATO troops are everywhere but not you Albania. Why would you be here when in need?

Regarding economic agreements, there is high tax for goods coming in and out of our countries. This issue is similar with any other country which is independent of Dardania. Are you saying that tax cuts will come or did they already occurred?

The way i don't believe it may happen (like having a map of a single country with both Albania and Kosovo in one) is due to facts that none of albanian politicians, not the kosovo ones, want something like this.

We as people are so ambitious to politics and govern and we don't share anything among each others even on now days conditions.

Your prime minister does not want something like that because he knows very well that he won't ever be a prime minister of the new country as well as our left parties do not wish something like this.

Politicians are voted. Which makes this a case of "Do what we as people want, unite, or else we will vote for the other one that does so!"

In Albania people are divided, north support the right and south the west. And most of Kosovo people support the right in Albania and prime minister Sali Berisha. This made leftist accuses many times the rights (who were in power) as they were migrating officially Kosovo people to win elections.

It sound stupid but it is true at a point. We mostly fight each others when it come to politics and power.

And wee both are very fragile on internal conflicts.

Anyway, the signs for an union seems to be there (just that it is happening with some modern tools) and mostly the US is supporting it.

You keep on saying USA supporting us most of the time. Though it is true try mentioning other allies also. You have many others that have helped us throughout our history. I do not want them to feel that we are thankless you know.

There maybe was a finding in 2005 that stated that the people in Albania and Dardania did not want unification. What politicians did is make decisions on findings as they should. But what I propose is this:

a) Conduct a wide scale qualitative research between the countries of same people and swap the data. Analyze the data together to find common and independent (i.e., country specific) findings. Those may pertain to prejudice or real causes why there may be resistance between the people for unification.

b) If prejudice is to blame then these should be targeted. I propose a medial campaign for this. A systematic declaration of findings of prejudice in the media and how bizarre they may be when compared to reality. If there happens to be real issues (that I doubt) that would be against unification then they should be looked into.

c) Conduct another post medial survey to see what the positions would then be. If they happen to be negative again then we should drop it, regretfully. If they are positive though, for I have a hunch that the initial survey happened prematurely, then the decision makers should take it into a more serious consideration, or else their rivals will be voted.

d) The officials in power the authority then organizes a plebiscite. We may involve the OSCE or other organizations to watch out for objective and smooth processing of the plebiscite. Based on the results then the fate of the border would be sealed.

So what do you and other DP users think of this prior to plebiscite proposal of mine? It is:

Q x M x S x P

Q = Qualitative Study

M = Media Campaign

S = Initial Plebiscite Survey

P = Plebiscite
 
Your military has not entered Dardania even when we are free. World wide NATO troops are everywhere but not you Albania. Why would you be here when in need?
SOFA agreement was placed on 2 July 2013. (only 1 month ago).
However, it is not an agreement which determine by must that albanian forces should be in kosovo and vice versa.
It's just a tool to give legal status to a collaboration to defend both countries at any time.
As you may know, a kind of this agreement was placed and practiced on highways with road patrol police forces from both sides.

__________________________________________
As for other allies no, i don't think so.
Britain never been our ally until '90s. If it wasn't for Clinton's decision, Kosovo wouldn't be independent now, that's sure.
 
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SOFA agreement was placed on 2 July 2013. (only 1 month ago).
However, it is not an agreement which determine by must that albanian forces should be in kosovo and vice versa.

It's just a tool to give legal status to a collaboration to defend both countries at any time.
As you may know, a kind of this agreement was placed and practiced on highways with road patrol police forces from both sides.

I must have missed this. But I do not see Albanian troops anywhere?

Still unification would be better.

__________________________________________
As for other allies no, i don't think so.
Britain never been our ally until '90s. If it wasn't for Clinton's decision, Kosovo wouldn't be independent now, that's sure.

Nah, here you are wrong. There are countries that are pro-Albanian throughout history.

See that British writer (cannot think of his name) that visited us (not divided at the time) during the time of Ali Pash Tepelena. We were considered the pearl underneath everything!

During the Congress of Berlin, Deutchland, Britain, Austro-Hungarry, were fighting against the Russian proposal of Saint Stefan that foresaw only Shkodra to remain free. All other parts of our lands were to be rewarded to our neighbors. Britain was furious over this Russian proposal and at that time (1878) had the ability to counter it. In fact they wanted to go war over it. Bizmark was intermediating the tensions there!

Austro-Hungary offered protection against Slavs and guaranteed peace before we were influenced from Slavs to go against them at our demise!

Ottoman Empire and Turkiye overall took many forced to be dislocated Albanians as refuge willingly. So did the rest of these places ever since their retreat!

So there is more than one. Get a hold of a good historical book to see for yourself.
 
Now here is the deal. We are small and surrounded by foes (like Israel). Our foes are relentless with their unfriendly propaganda that you may observe in RT. The attitudes are generally polarized and favoring the Serbian interpretation in extreme bias (this after all we went through).

You shouldn't be allowed into any responsible group or organization with that attitude, but it might be okay with the UN. I certainly wouldn't want you as a neighbor.
 
You shouldn't be allowed into any responsible group or organization with that attitude, but it might be okay with the UN. I certainly wouldn't want you as a neighbor.

What kind of attitude is that?
 
That's why I oppose U.S. and Russian intervention in Syria. Whatever system arises within a nation is fine by me as long as the people of that nation "worked it out" amongst themselves.

I don't consider a dictator slaughtering 100k of his own citizens to be the people "working it out".
 
I think there is this feeling that there may be great disappointment from our supporters, they may think that we cheated on them by joining with Albania now.

Why not achieve independence and then consider joining Albania?
 
Why not achieve independence and then consider joining Albania?

Yes same point as Rainman. This is one reason to postpone it to a future time. But for clarity, we are independent, just that another 21 countries in the world require recognition of independence to UN.

What I do not like about this solution is that other developments are occurring in the meantime. For instance if we were to be part of EU in the meantime I am not certain whether removing political borders is possible?
 
Yes same point as Rainman. This is one reason to postpone it to a future time. But for clarity, we are independent, just that another 21 countries in the world require recognition of independence to UN.

What I do not like about this solution is that other developments are occurring in the meantime. For instance if we were to be part of EU in the meantime I am not certain whether removing political borders is possible?

The EU over-reached and I don't see them having another drastic expansion for a long time.
 
I don't consider a dictator slaughtering 100k of his own citizens to be the people "working it out".

Maybe not, but it becomes the dictators problem over time; not ours for helpful "interference" that always seems ot backfire.
 
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