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Has this election challenged any of your friendships?

_Sal

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This election has to be one of the most divisive I have witnessed in my life time.

I don't have a pony in the race although I do have my opinions, I'm not shy so thus I have had some heated arguments with other Canadians.

So it got me thinking that if I don't have a pony in the race and feel this strongly...what of you?

Has this caused issues, disagreements, feelings of strong bonding or questioning for you and your friends and family?
 

Captain Adverse

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Nope.

I've lived long enough and my friends have known me long enough that political disagreements have no effect on our relationships.

Isn't that one sign of real friendship; that differences are accepted as part of the package deal?
 

TheGoverness

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This election has to be one of the most divisive I have witnessed in my life time.

I don't have a pony in the race although I do have my opinions, I'm not shy so thus I have had some heated arguments with other Canadians.

So it got me thinking that if I don't have a pony in the race and feel this strongly...what of you?

Has this caused issues, disagreements, feelings of strong bonding or questioning for you and your friends and family?

Nah, not really.

At the most I've had some really heated debates with my parents (who are Trump supporters) at the dinner table.

But when it comes to my friends, they don't really give a **** about politics in the first place.
 

_Sal

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Nah, not really.

At the most I've had some really heated debates with my parents (who are Trump supporters) at the dinner table.

But when it comes to my friends, they don't really give a **** about politics in the first place.
you truly are a little rebel...you go girl...the world is a better place because of you

see

your parents did something right
 

reinoe

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This election has to be one of the most divisive I have witnessed in my life time.

I don't have a pony in the race although I do have my opinions, I'm not shy so thus I have had some heated arguments with other Canadians.

So it got me thinking that if I don't have a pony in the race and feel this strongly...what of you?

Has this caused issues, disagreements, feelings of strong bonding or questioning for you and your friends and family?

No. All of my friends acknowledge that Trump and Hillary are bad in their own way and so are comfortable with whatever decisions a person makes.
 

Skeptic Bob

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Nope. I know which of my friends and family can debate politics without hurt feelings and which can't. I don't engage people who can't handle it.
 

MaggieD

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This election has to be one of the most divisive I have witnessed in my life time.

I don't have a pony in the race although I do have my opinions, I'm not shy so thus I have had some heated arguments with other Canadians.

So it got me thinking that if I don't have a pony in the race and feel this strongly...what of you?

Has this caused issues, disagreements, feelings of strong bonding or questioning for you and your friends and family?

No, not me. I rarely discuss politics with friends and family. And if it IS discussed and I find we don't agree? I drop it.
 

VanceMack

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I work in a field dominated by liberals. Most of my associates are liberals. They cant stand Trump...but they cant stand Hillary as well. I dont associate with mindless ****s that are driven by idiotic partisan ideologies. So...no...none of my friendships have been challenged.
 

Perotista

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This election has to be one of the most divisive I have witnessed in my life time.

I don't have a pony in the race although I do have my opinions, I'm not shy so thus I have had some heated arguments with other Canadians.

So it got me thinking that if I don't have a pony in the race and feel this strongly...what of you?

Has this caused issues, disagreements, feelings of strong bonding or questioning for you and your friends and family?

No. I do have four friends who are avid Trump supporters, but they have been avid Republicans since the day I first knew them. I accept that from them and they accept that I vote for whom I think is the best candidate regardless of party. I have a son in law, who is a die hard Democrat, once again I accept that and he also accepts my views. Most others are mostly non-political and that includes my family. Heck my son who has turned 47 has never voted and never will. My oldest daughter is the same and she is 53. They think it doesn't make a difference, that regardless Washington D.C. is going to do what Washington D.C. wants to do regardless of who is in or out.

My horse in this race is Gary Johnson, I despise and detest, perhaps abhor is a better word both Trump and Clinton. If either one ends up in the White House, it won't be because of me.
 

_Sal

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No. I do have four friends who are avid Trump supporters, but they have been avid Republicans since the day I first knew them. I accept that from them and they accept that I vote for whom I think is the best candidate regardless of party. I have a son in law, who is a die hard Democrat, once again I accept that and he also accepts my views. Most others are mostly non-political and that includes my family. Heck my son who has turned 47 has never voted and never will. My oldest daughter is the same and she is 53. They think it doesn't make a difference, that regardless Washington D.C. is going to do what Washington D.C. wants to do regardless of who is in or out.

My horse in this race is Gary Johnson, I despise and detest, perhaps abhor is a better word both Trump and Clinton. If either one ends up in the White House, it won't be because of me.

an interesting analysis...thanks...if I were American, Gary would be my guy too (so far)
 

Perotista

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an interesting analysis...thanks...if I were American, Gary would be my guy too (so far)

This election is unique in the history of our presidential elections. You have approximately 60% of all Americans view Trump in the negative, 60% or about viewing Hillary in the negative. You also have 54% of independents stating they dislike both Trump and Hillary, 24% of Republicans disliking both candidates and 20% of Democrats viewing both Trump and Clinton in an unfavorable light. That is a lot of dislikes. If you haven't seen this, scroll down to the second table.

One in Four Americans Dislike Both Presidential Candidates

In fact prior to this election according to Gallup the record low approval rating for any presidential candidate was set by G.H.W. Bush back in 1992 at 46%. Prior to this election he is the only presidential candidate from the two major parties ever to having a favorable rating of below 50% since Gallup started keeping track of these things. The second lowest was John Kerry's 51% in 2004. With Trump at 36% approval and Clinton at 38%, both of these candidates are going to smash Bush the first record for the lowest ever recorded approval/favorable rating by a major party presidential candidate.

Johnson seems to be the only sane choice out there. At least for those center to center right political philosophy. Jill Stein of the Green I would say is a sane choice for those center and center left or progressives who dislike Hillary.
 

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Has this election challenged any of your friendships?

i hope not. people i care about are probably voting for Trump, but i'll still hang with them. the problem will come if they won't hang with me because of my own political leanings, which i largely keep to myself IRL.
 

TheGoverness

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i hope not. people i care about are probably voting for Trump, but i'll still hang with them. the problem will come if they won't hang with me because of my own political leanings, which i largely keep to myself IRL.

I think most people keep their politics to themselves. Creates too much tension.
 

Helix

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I think most people keep their politics to themselves. Creates too much tension.

i like to keep it light. if i engage in political debate, it's usually on a message board.
 

_Sal

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This election is unique in the history of our presidential elections. You have approximately 60% of all Americans view Trump in the negative, 60% or about viewing Hillary in the negative. You also have 54% of independents stating they dislike both Trump and Hillary, 24% of Republicans disliking both candidates and 20% of Democrats viewing both Trump and Clinton in an unfavorable light. That is a lot of dislikes. If you haven't seen this, scroll down to the second table.

One in Four Americans Dislike Both Presidential Candidates

In fact prior to this election according to Gallup the record low approval rating for any presidential candidate was set by G.H.W. Bush back in 1992 at 46%. Prior to this election he is the only presidential candidate from the two major parties ever to having a favorable rating of below 50% since Gallup started keeping track of these things. The second lowest was John Kerry's 51% in 2004. With Trump at 36% approval and Clinton at 38%, both of these candidates are going to smash Bush the first record for the lowest ever recorded approval/favorable rating by a major party presidential candidate.

Johnson seems to be the only sane choice out there. At least for those center to center right political philosophy. Jill Stein of the Green I would say is a sane choice for those center and center left or progressives who dislike Hillary.

I found this interesting:
So who are the "25%" who don't like either of the candidates this year? One defining feature: 54% describe themselves as politically independent. Although many of these independents actually lean to one party or the other, as a group they have less attachment to the system and are less likely to vote, raising the possibility that those who dislike both candidates also have a lower probability of actually voting.

I have to try to remember that this board does not represent the average American and I get lost in that sometimes. Same with FB...the lack of knowledge and emotion displayed on there is frightening

this was also interesting and surprising to me:
Americans who dislike both candidates are about evenly split on whether they approve of Barack Obama's job as president -- 46% approve and 50% disapprove, compared with his overall 52%/44% rating from the U.S. public in the month of June.

thanks for the link
 

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No. All of my friends acknowledge that Trump and Hillary are bad in their own way and so are comfortable with whatever decisions a person makes.

Ditto
 

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I found this interesting:
So who are the "25%" who don't like either of the candidates this year? One defining feature: 54% describe themselves as politically independent. Although many of these independents actually lean to one party or the other, as a group they have less attachment to the system and are less likely to vote, raising the possibility that those who dislike both candidates also have a lower probability of actually voting.

I have to try to remember that this board does not represent the average American and I get lost in that sometimes. Same with FB...the lack of knowledge and emotion displayed on there is frightening

this was also interesting and surprising to me:
Americans who dislike both candidates are about evenly split on whether they approve of Barack Obama's job as president -- 46% approve and 50% disapprove, compared with his overall 52%/44% rating from the U.S. public in the month of June.

thanks for the link

Exactly, for the reasons you stated I expect voter turnout to be in the 45-48% range instead of the normal 55%. Who this helps, I am not sure. Right now according to the RCP averages, Trump and Clinton are basically tied at 40% each.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein

Johnson and Stein are polling roughly 10% together, call that the third party vote and the rest fall into the categories of undecided or will not vote. What is interesting about the third party numbers is that never in its long history has any Libertarian candidate polled even one percent of the total vote. Johnson in 2012 received 0.9%, a record high for a Libertarian candidate. Stein of the Green Party received 0.3% in 2012. Obama and Romney received 98.5% of the total vote which is normal without a named and well funded third party candidate such as Perot, Anderson or Wallace.

In polls for July in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012, they showed both major party candidates combining for 93% of the vote with no named, well funded and media coverage of third party candidates. This year the two major party candidates combined are at 80%. Meaning a lot of people just do not want to choose between Trump and Clinton. They are willing to give third party candidates 10% of the vote of whom the vast majority have never heard of them, don't know where they stand on the issues, no name recognition, no media coverage, only their last names are not Trump or Clinton. The dislike of both major party candidates syndrome. undecided is up from an average of 6% to 10% for the July polls.

This is a very unique election, one in which there is absolutely no precedence. Throw conventional wisdom and historical references out the window. They do not apply.
 

_Sal

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Exactly, for the reasons you stated I expect voter turnout to be in the 45-48% range instead of the normal 55%. Who this helps, I am not sure. Right now according to the RCP averages, Trump and Clinton are basically tied at 40% each.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2016 - General Election: Trump vs. Clinton vs. Johnson vs. Stein

Johnson and Stein are polling roughly 10% together, call that the third party vote and the rest fall into the categories of undecided or will not vote. What is interesting about the third party numbers is that never in its long history has any Libertarian candidate polled even one percent of the total vote. Johnson in 2012 received 0.9%, a record high for a Libertarian candidate. Stein of the Green Party received 0.3% in 2012. Obama and Romney received 98.5% of the total vote which is normal without a named and well funded third party candidate such as Perot, Anderson or Wallace.

In polls for July in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012, they showed both major party candidates combining for 93% of the vote with no named, well funded and media coverage of third party candidates. This year the two major party candidates combined are at 80%. Meaning a lot of people just do not want to choose between Trump and Clinton. They are willing to give third party candidates 10% of the vote of whom the vast majority have never heard of them, don't know where they stand on the issues, no name recognition, no media coverage, only their last names are not Trump or Clinton. The dislike of both major party candidates syndrome. undecided is up from an average of 6% to 10% for the July polls.

This is a very unique election, one in which there is absolutely no precedence. Throw conventional wisdom and historical references out the window. They do not apply.
yes it's very unique

do you have a prediction?
 

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yes it's very unique

do you have a prediction?

Prediction? This is long winded. If you asked me in May I would have said Clinton in a landslide. That is what the numbers showed then. Today, they are even. Now I would throw the horse race numbers out, concentrate on the candidates favorable/unfavorable ratings, Folks usually do not vote for someone they dislike. But that is conventional wisdom which may or may not apply. Then look at the trend in the favorable/unfavorable ratings. Then keep track of each party’s base voters and the percentage of each that go to their nominee.

On 1 May Clinton was at 40% favorable, 54% unfavorable. Trump at 30% favorable, 64% unfavorable. That ten-point difference would indicate we were looking at a big Clinton win in November. But since then, back to today, Clinton is at 39% favorable, 54% unfavorable, basically no change at all over a three-month period of time. Trump today is at 37% favorable, 57% unfavorable, he has improved whereas Clinton has not. The trend indicates things may be going Trump’s way. Second party base voters, On 1 May, the Republicans had a slight one point advantage in their base vote 31-30, but when the independent lean Republican and independent lean Democrat were added that slight advantage disappeared to where the Democratic base plus leans had a 47-43 advantage. Today the parties are tied as to the base vote at 28% each of the total electorate and tied when including leans at 43%. Once again the trend would indicate a Republican or Trump advantage. Conventional wisdom again. In a normal year, not a unique one like this, all the numbers indicate up to this point a Trump win in the popular vote in November.

But then the intangibles. Clinton is very political savvy, sometimes too much. Trump on the other hand has been very political stupid at times. He has foot in mouth disease. Clinton has a solid political team and she will listen to them. Trump does not and even if he did, he wouldn’t listen to them anyway. He is his own man and he does and says things as they pop into his head. Trump gives the impression he is running for a host spot on a reality TV show instead of the presidency at times. Clinton has no charisma, her personality sucks, she grates on people, but even so she is running for the presidency. Independents pick this up even though they don’t like her and in the end, a bit more than half will hold their nose and vote for her, the candidate they detest the least.

So I finally have learned to throw out conventional wisdom and past historical references. Clinton wins the popular by around three to four points. If by some chance, Trump could learn to act presidential and cure his foot in mouth disease, he could win the popular vote. But I don’t expect him to change his act or cure his big trap. The numbers today say this election is Trump’s to lose, he is doing exactly that.

Then there is the electoral college where Clinton has a huge advantage. In the end the popular vote means nothing. Just ask Al Gore. In states where the lead is five points or better by either candidate, Clinton has a 269 to 191 lead. It takes 270 to win and 269 guarantees a tie. There are only six more states in which the race there is too close to call. The tossup states which Hillary would have to win just one of six to become the next president. So if I had to make a prediction 100 days out, Hillary Clinton will be our next president.
 
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_Sal

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Prediction? This is long winded. If you asked me in May I would have said Clinton in a landslide. That is what the numbers showed then. Today, they are even. Now I would throw the horse race numbers out, concentrate on the candidates favorable/unfavorable ratings, Folks usually do not vote for someone they dislike. But that is conventional wisdom which may or may not apply. Then look at the trend in the favorable/unfavorable ratings. Then keep track of each party’s base voters and the percentage of each that go to their nominee.

On 1 May Clinton was at 40% favorable, 54% unfavorable. Trump at 30% favorable, 64% unfavorable. That ten-point difference would indicate we were looking at a big Clinton win in November. But since then, back to today, Clinton is at 39% favorable, 54% unfavorable, basically no change at all over a three-month period of time. Trump today is at 37% favorable, 57% unfavorable, he has improved whereas Clinton has not. The trend indicates things may be going Trump’s way. Second party base voters, On 1 May, the Republicans had a slight one point advantage in their base vote 31-30, but when the independent lean Republican and independent lean Democrat were added that slight advantage disappeared to where the Democratic base plus leans had a 47-43 advantage. Today the parties are tied as to the base vote at 28% each of the total electorate and tied when including leans at 43%. Once again the trend would indicate a Republican or Trump advantage. Conventional wisdom again. In a normal year, not a unique one like this, all the numbers indicate up to this point a Trump win in the popular vote in November.

But then the intangibles. Clinton is very political savvy, sometimes too much. Trump on the other hand has been very political stupid at times. He has foot in mouth disease. Clinton has a solid political team and she will listen to them. Trump does not and even if he did, he wouldn’t listen to them anyway. He is his own man and he does and says things as they pop into his head. Trump gives the impression he is running for a host spot on a reality TV show instead of the presidency at times. Clinton has no charisma, her personality sucks, she grates on people, but even so she is running for the presidency. Independents pick this up even though they don’t like her and in the end, a bit more than half will hold their nose and vote for her, the candidate they detest the least.

So I finally have learned to throw out conventional wisdom and past historical references. Clinton wins the popular by around three to four points. If by some chance, Trump could learn to act presidential and cure his foot in mouth disease, he could win the popular vote. But I don’t expect him to change his act or cure his big trap. The numbers today say this election is Trump’s to lose, he is doing exactly that.

Then there is the electoral college where Clinton has a huge advantage. In the end the popular vote means nothing. Just ask Al Gore. In states where the lead is five points or better by either candidate, Clinton has a 269 to 191 lead. It takes 270 to win and 269 guarantees a tie. There are only six more states in which the race there is too close to call. The tossup states which Hillary would have to win just one of six to become the next president. So if I had to make a prediction 100 days out, Hillary Clinton will be our next president.

WOW :clap:

that is a super spectacular analysis...thanks for the explanation, it is fascinating!!

from what you have said and the way it is laid out it is so tight

I have predicted Trump right from the opening of the gate. The reason I believe he will win is because as you say: "He has foot in mouth disease." I think people like that. I also think it indicates just how far we have devolved but...that is me. I admire Trumps ability to read his crowd and manipulate them. That is quite the gift. I do not think Hillary possesses such a gift.

But to me she is the more solid candidate.

Once Trump wins, and I believe he will, he will back track while still appearing not to.

I am not happy about the way I believe this will go down but I do not live there and it likely won't affect my lifestyle one iota unless of course ? there is always the unknown.
 
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