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Has Putin demonstrated western civ's form of capitalism conflicts with democratic values, human rights?

Maximization of return on stock holder equity, vs societal goals, values, courts, EPA, labor rights

  • Yes, the overriding goal of capitalism directly conflicts with western societies' security & values

  • Wealth supports the standard of living, gov budgets is prerequisite, is personal wealth cap: answer?

  • Present economic system is least flawed, if history is any guide

  • Libertarianism is our natural state, the strong must dominate, the weak unrealistic by resisting


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Too dark a picture. Like all things in life, a little balancing between clashing considerations usually does a pretty reasonable job. It’s like trying to figure out whether it’s better to spend time with your family or at work. Just because there may not be exact right answer, does not mean you can’t do better and worse jobs juggling between those considerations.

It’s a little unsatisfying because you have to compromise a little bit here and there. But it often leads to the best results. No reason for dismay!

You know that old Rolling Stones song “you can’t always get what you want. But if you try sometimes you get what you need.”
well said.......compromise at one time was fairly prevalent not only in our government but also among citizens......imo it is the only way a republic can progress.....
 
Too dark a picture. -snip-

It’s a little unsatisfying because you have to compromise a little bit here and there. But it often leads to the best results. No reason for dismay!

You know that old Rolling Stones song “you can’t always get what you want. But if you try sometimes you get what you need.”

I'm sorry... but your post is soooooo 2012. As you are probably aware, Obama was not actually born in Hawaii, Mexicans "are not sending us their best people, they are sending...." "The press is the enemy of the people," "I won this election by a landslide," "mail-in voting and the voting machines were rigged,"

https://washingtonpost.com/
February 9, 2021
"The video then shows the mob breaching the Capitol while lawmakers were carrying out constitutional processes designating the conclusion of that election, which the invaders then disrupted.
That’s juxtaposed with Trump telling the crowd, “When you catch someone in a fraud, you’re allowed to go by very different rules.” This continues to go underappreciated, but Trump told his supporters that overturning the election would be a restoration of justice, one that justified “very different rules.”

There have not been, "two sides," since the autopsy of the 2012 presidential election conducted by republicans was ignored in favor
of maintaining the 86 percent "whiteness" of the party's voters.

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March 3, 2022
"Van Taylor’s Republican opponents thought he would be defeated over disloyalty to Trump. Instead, he was defeated over disloyalty to his wife. In what has to be one of the weirdest, most abrupt ends to a political career, Taylor, a congressman who represents North Texas’s Collin County, admitted today to an affair with a woman known in British tabloids as the “ISIS bride” and announced that he would not campaign for reelection.

Yesterday, Taylor seemed poised to avoid a runoff, staying above 50 percent for much of the night against his four Republican opponents as the early votes were counted. But as Election Day votes came in, he dipped just below the critical 50 percent threshold by hundreds of votes, thrusting him into a runoff with the second place finisher, former Collin County Judge Keith Self. Now Taylor has effectively conceded his office to Self, who’s likely to win in November and who must be stunned to find that texts about “slow rim jobs” have handed him a job he expected to win by hammering Taylor over his votes to certify the election and appoint a commission to investigate the January 6 mob.

The salacious story broke, as many right-wing sex scandals do these days, on far-right media. National File published the first piece on Sunday, two days before primary day, with the headline “EXCLUSIVE: Van Taylor Accused of Extramarital Affair With ISIS Bride, Abuse of Power, ‘Rim Job’ Text.” The woman, Tonia Joya, told the site that she had had a nine-months-long affair with Taylor from October 2020 to June 2021 after they connected over Joya’s work preventing violent extremism. The subject of a profile in Texas Monthly in 2017, Joya gained public notice in the previous decade because of her marriage to John Georgelas, a Texan man from Plano who became the top American ISIS leader in Syria. Eventually, Joya grew disenchanted with her husband’s extremism and the travails of living in a war zone and fled Syria. Her strange and harrowing journey brought her to Texas and into the less exciting world of Congressman Van Taylor...."

...and speaking of text messages,

.
.No specifics, though, 'cuz facts aren't how you or Trump, roll.

The problem is not what I've presented, that Trump started attacking FBI no. 2. McCabe, during the 2016 campaign,
dismissed Lt. Col. Vindman's twin brother in an act of retribution, associated McCabe, Strzok, and Page more than once.
with the death penalty "for treason," or that Trump acted out Strzok bringing Lisa Page to orgasm....
.... the problem is that 74 million voted for Trump after all of that ..
.
 
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Nah, actually it's just a bully beating up an innocent bystander.

Exactly how is Russia supposed to stop a determined Nato expanding into Ukraine on Russia's borders?



Its OK sometimes to call out unjust and bullying behavior.

Its unjust and unfair. But that is how big powers roll.
 
Exactly how is Russia supposed to stop a determined Nato expanding into Ukraine on Russia's borders?





Its unjust and unfair. But that is how big powers roll.
Uhhhh.... by refraining from territory grabs such as Crimea-2014, militaristic "adventures" such as Georgia-2008,
punishing or murdering all critics of the regime?


"In the 21st century, Novichok agents came to public attention after they were used to poison opponents of the Russian government, including the Skripals and two others in Amesbury, UK (2018) and Alexei Navalny (2020), but civil poisonings with this substance have been known since at least 1995..."



Forum's text censor destroyed the link.... "what Trump boasted of "grabbing them by"-Riot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*****_Riot

Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Poisoning_of_Alexand...
Polonium trails — The human body dilutes polonium before excreting it in sweat, which results in a reduced radioactivity level. There were also traces of Po ...
Polonium-210 · ‎Andrey Lugovoy · ‎Dmitry Kovtun

Paul Klebnikov - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Paul_Klebnikov
"Paul Klebnikov was an American journalist and historian of Russia. He worked for Forbes magazine for more than 10 years and at the time of his death was chief editor of the Russian edition of Forbes. His murder in Moscow in 2004 was seen as a blow against investigative journalism in Russia. Three Chechens accused of taking part in the murder were acquitted. Though the murder appeared to be the work of assassins for hire, as of 2018, the organizers of the murder had yet to be identified.[2] According to another version, widely reported in Russian media, Khlebnikov was killed by a close associate to the high-ranking member of Lazansky' organized criminal gang [ru] linked both to Russian FSS service and Boris Berezovsky, a Russian oligarch.[3]... On September 22, 1991, he married Helen "Musa" Train, the daughter of ..."
 
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Capitalism is a very good system. However, if history has taught us anything, it must be tempered. Otherwise it will be unfettered to the detriment of society as a whole. The key is to administer a fluid system that allows capitalism to thrive while not exploiting the laborers or the consumers that drive capitalism.

Historically, the worst example of unfettered capitalism was the days of early mining in America. The mines were in remote desolate places and the mine owners needed to offer incentives to get workers to move out there. So, they offered them good wages plus housing plus other benefits. This worked for a while, but there were problems.

For example, since they were in the wilderness, there were no banks. Therefore the company would pay the workers in something called company scrip. It worked like money, and the workers could trade their company scrip for actual U.S. dollars if they wanted. Of course, the company would determine the exchange rate and it always favored the dollar unless one wished to trade dollars for scrip, in which case the dollar was always weaker against the scrip.

Nobody needed the cash anyway, because there was nowhere to spend it in the wilderness except at the company store. The store carried everything a hard working miner would need to survive for himself and his family. Except that it seemed that the costs of goods always just slightly outweighed the workers' incomes. Not to worry, the company store was always ready and willing to extend credit to those hard workers who needed a little help to make ends meet. Never mind that the mine company was who decided how much the workers were paid and how much the store goods cost. Consequently, most workers found themselves in debt to the company after a short time. That debt needed to be repaid before the worker left the job. Of course, that was never going to happen as the system was rigged against the workers.

Eventually, this arrangement resulted in worker dissatisfaction and labor unrest. The workers tried to organize labor unions, which resulted in the company dismissing the union organizers and terrorizing the others into submission. It wasn't until the federal government stepped in to protect the workers and allowing them collective bargaining rights that this system was reformed to favor the workers as well as the mine owners.

We've come a long way from the days of the company store, and labor unions have demonstrated their value in promoting the rights and protections of the working classes. In fact, some argue that labor unions negotiating with capitalists contributed greatly to the rise of the middle class in America.
After the end of the civil war, the new slavery was introduced, share cropping & along with it company stores & script. No Unions in cotton country.
The Unions did lead to prosperity after WWII, with Union busting gaining strength in the late 60's & & 70's. Wages stagnated since while the new Gilded Age has increasingly driven income disparity through the roof. Capitalism at best is a flawed system, I just don't see a viable alternative.
 
Exactly how is Russia supposed to stop a determined Nato expanding into Ukraine on Russia's borders?





Its unjust and unfair. But that is how big powers roll.
Russia wants Ukraine, which actually moves their border right next to NATO countries. The new (old) Domino Theory.
 
After the end of the civil war, the new slavery was introduced, share cropping & along with it company stores & script. No Unions in cotton country.
The Unions did lead to prosperity after WWII, with Union busting gaining strength in the late 60's & & 70's. Wages stagnated since while the new Gilded Age has increasingly driven income disparity through the roof. Capitalism at best is a flawed system, I just don't see a viable alternative.
Wow! A fellow student of history! Pleased to make your acquaintance!

Unions went a long way toward tempering unfettered capitalism and were responsible for both the growth of the middle class and prosperity of the nation as a whole. When combined with government programs like the G.I. education bill, which tripled the percentage of non-wealthy citizens having college degrees in less than two decades, it's no wonder that conservatives wanted to destroy the unions.
 
March 2, 2022

"...And the 2014 ouster of Viktor Yanukovych (which more complicit members of the horseshoe left claim was simply a coup led by Nazis) set off a concerted plan that incorporated support for Brexit, an attack on US elections in 2016, all conducted in parallel with relentless targeting of Ukraine....This invasion is the continuation of not just the annexation of Crimea and persistent war in Ukraine’s East, but also the hybrid attacks on Ukraine’s power grid and, via NotPetya, on anyone paying taxes in Ukraine and therefore any international business doing business with it. Russia’s efforts to cultivate Tories in the UK, populists in the EU, and the Trumpist right, including a good deal of disinformation capitalizing on Trump’s narcissism, was always closely connected to Russia’s closer goals in Ukraine (and, indeed, involved the participation of some of Trump’s closest allies, starting with Paul Manafort and Rudy Giuliani. in Ukraine).
...Ukraine, with Europe, needs to survive this attack, find a way to rebut the invasion and build a path forward.

But whatever else this moment has done, it has made it clear how easy it was for Russia to pervert democracy in the places proudly claiming to practice it with the least little bit of Oligarch cash. Having ripped off the bandaid of Russian influence, Europe (at least) has the opportunity to formalize protections against purchased influence. Such lessons, of course, extend beyond Russia to America’s own failed imperial catastrophes, most notably in Afghanistan, where US-backed corruption made it easy for the Taliban to regain credibility by comparison. US hegemony is on the wane because of Green Zone thinking about capitalism, which fostered the kind of corruption that made Putin powerful.

Such lessons extend, as well, to America’s own fragile democracy, subjugated in recent years to endless supplies of corporate cash, which led in 2016 to the election of a man who aspired to impose a kleptocracy every bit as corrupt as Putin’s. Vladimir Putin has gotten a large swath of anti-imperialist American leftists to parrot a claim that he invaded Ukraine because of NATO, and only because of NATO. Not only has that made them willful apologists for the kind of imperialism they claim to abhor, even while ignoring the direct assault on democracy and the greater aspirations to human rights adopted by Europe. But it has led them to ignore an obvious critique of US and Russian power that would be a necessary component of building a new, more resilient order if we survive this war."
Capitalism can and often does come into conflict with democracy but not always. The two are not always complimentary.
 
Russia wants Ukraine, which actually moves their border right next to NATO countries. The new (old) Domino Theory.



There is truth to that
 
I dont think neoliberal capitalism will last too much longer. Maybe a different form.
 
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