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Has anyone's mind actually changed about who they intend to vote for?

Captain Adverse

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I've read a number of threads in the Forum about Trump, Hillary, and the other third party candidates; but I wonder, has anyone actually changed their mind about who they intend to vote for?

I mean we have hardcore Hillary supporters putting up every kind of "he's unfit for office" attack they can muster from the media.

Then we have hardcore supporters of Trump responding in kind with every "she's unfit for office" factoid they can procure.

Meanwhile we have the third party die-hards, hoping this will be the first time in American history a third-party candidate can win (as if that's a new idea) plugging away by pointing out how everyone hates BOTH Trump and Hillary.

But has anyone really changed their position on their candidate, and switched? I know I haven't.

Have you? If not, why? If so, from whom to whom and how did it come about?
 
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Chomsky

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I've read a number of threads in the Forum about Trump, Hillary, and the other third party candidates; but I wonder, has anyone actually changed their mind about who they intend to vote for?

I mean we have hardcore Hillary supporters putting up every kind of "he's unfit for office" attack they can muster from the media.

Then we have hardcore supporters of Trump responding in kind with every "she's unfit for office" factoid they can procure.

Meanwhile we have the third party die-hards, hoping this will be the first time in American history a third-party candidate can win (as if that's a new idea) plugging away by pointing out how everyone hates BOTH Trump and Hillary.

But has anyone really changed their position on their candidate, and switched? I know I haven't.

Have you? If not, why? If so, from whom to whom and how did it come about?
As it became clear months before the end of the primaries that Bernie would not prevail, I started seriously considering Trump, to the point of leaning his way,

But he just got deeper & deeper and worse & worse, until I just couldn't do it.

It's a shame, because he initially was supporting single-payer healthcare, which along with illegal immigration are 2 of my 3 top issues of concern.
 

Captain Adverse

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As it became clear months before the end of the primaries that Bernie would not prevail, I started seriously considering Trump, to the point of leaning his way,

But he just got deeper & deeper and worse & worse, until I just couldn't do it.

It's a shame, because he initially was supporting single-payer healthcare, which along with illegal immigration are 2 of my 3 top issues of concern.

What's concern number 3 if you don't mind my asking?
 

Chomsky

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I'd like to clarify that by stating "illegal immigration" as an issue, that I'm vehemently against it and want it stopped.

[hard to believe I felt the need to clarify that, because there are those that support illegal immigration!]
 
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RetiredNSmilin

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Nope, I was a very early Trump supporter.

but it was not anything Trump said that put me further into his camp.

It was the CONTINUED INSULTS I have received for supporting the candidate of my choice, that have made me hardened. Once early on, there was a thread that started out by only saying this..."If you are a Trump supporter, then you are a ( string of profane personal insults and profanity). That was all the opening post in the thread said. Now how classic is that?

I have always known politics is passionate, but this is the very first time, I have been PERSONALLY ATTACKED on a personal level, for supporting the candidate of my choice.

I have two college degrees in technical majors, several professional certifications & licenses, one US patent, and wrote three songs, yet I am continually told I am a dimwitted moron and uneducated for supporting someone other than Hillary or Sanders.

THAT, my friends, is where the bad blood grows and is born, but I did not give birth to it.

I will cuss the candidate all day, but not YOUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE them, or YOU for that choice.

Hillary and Sanders supporters think otherwise, and DO otherwise, at every opportunity.
 
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TheGoverness

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I've read a number of threads in the Forum about Trump, Hillary, and the other third party candidates; but I wonder, has anyone actually changed their mind about who they intend to vote for?

I mean we have hardcore Hillary supporters putting up every kind of "he's unfit for office" attack they can muster from the media.

Then we have hardcore supporters of Trump responding in kind with every "she's unfit for office" factoid they can procure.

Meanwhile we have the third party die-hards, hoping this will be the first time in American history a third-party candidate can win (as if that's a new idea) plugging away by pointing out how everyone hates BOTH Trump and Hillary.

But has anyone really changed their position on their candidate, and switched? I know I haven't.

Have you? If not, why? If so, from whom to whom and how did it come about?

Well, after Bernie lost the New York Primary, I kinda lost all hope and was initially considering casting my vote for Trump, as I felt that would be better than voting for Hillary Clinton (who I despise), but I quickly decided against it and decided to go for a third party candidate instead.
 

Chomsky

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Nope, I was a very early Trump supporter.

but it was not anything Trump said that put me further into his camp.

It was the CONTINUED INSULTS I have received for supporting the candidate of my choice, that have made me hardened.
Once early on, there was a thread that started out by only saying this..."If you are a Trump supporter, then you are a ( string of profane personal insults and profanity). That was all the opening post in the thread said. Now how classic is that?

I have always known politics is passionate, but this is the very first time, I have been PERSONALLY ATTACKED on a personal level, for supporting the candidate of my choice.

I have two college degrees in technical majors, several professional certifications & licenses, one US patent, and wrote three songs, yet I am continually told I am a dimwitted moron and uneducated for supporting someone other than Hillary or Sanders.

THAT, my friends, is where the bad blood grows and is born, but I did not give birth to it.

I will cuss the candidate all day, but not YOUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE them, or YOU for that choice.

Hillary and Sanders supporters think otherwise, and DO otherwise, at every opportunity.
To the bolded;

Understood, but I would try my best to not let other's poor behaviour influence my political decisions.

But it sounds like you're still leaning to Trump on your own volition, and I can respect that. I looked hard at him, myself.
 

Captain Adverse

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The members know by now that I support Trump. I have posted reasons in various threads, but I guess this is as good a place as any to consolidate my position.

  1. I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment as an individual right allowing common citizens to own the basic kinds of weapons that the average Infantryman would have. That means I oppose most gun control efforts, and support the appointment of Justices who agree with this position. Hillary Clinton is my political opposite on this issue, and has assured America that if elected she will appoint Justices who support reducing that right into near non-existence. Trump has at least stated he would appoint Justices who intend to preserve that right.
  2. I oppose government corruption. I am tired of candidates who have been bought and paid for by wealthy special interests. Trump is not as rich as he claims but he is definitely not under the control of other wealthy citizens, hence their antipathy to his candidacy. IMO Hillary is definitely corrupt, she is owned and happy to be bought.
  3. I oppose unrestricted Immigration and ALL refugee Migrations. That means I want to see our government vet immigrants to insure they are seeking to assimilate and not undermine our society. That I consider refugee migrants a problem because they simply want to transplant their whole culture and society here, with no intention to assimilate. Trump seems to agree, Hillary does not.
  4. I want to see our economy restored, and I oppose all of these International Trade Agreements which profit Corporations and foreign nations at the expense of our workforce. Trump seems to want to rebuild here, Hillary not so much.

These are the main reasons I support Trump. I can't commit to a Third Party because I honestly believe that means Hillary might win.
 
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joG

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I've read a number of threads in the Forum about Trump, Hillary, and the other third party candidates; but I wonder, has anyone actually changed their mind about who they intend to vote for?

I mean we have hardcore Hillary supporters putting up every kind of "he's unfit for office" attack they can muster from the media.

Then we have hardcore supporters of Trump responding in kind with every "she's unfit for office" factoid they can procure.

Meanwhile we have the third party die-hards, hoping this will be the first time in American history a third-party candidate can win (as if that's a new idea) plugging away by pointing out how everyone hates BOTH Trump and Hillary.

But has anyone really changed their position on their candidate, and switched? I know I haven't.

Have you? If not, why? If so, from whom to whom and how did it come about?

The basic decision parameters were well known at the beginning. Nothing out of character has happened and not much has become known that was not either known or very probably before. Had BS won the nomination, I might have switched parties and gone unhappily to support Trump as the lesser evil. What has changed it that it appears Clinton is a much greater risk to the nation and its economy than I had initially expected.
 

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Well, after Bernie lost the New York Primary, I kinda lost all hope and was initially considering casting my vote for Trump, as I felt that would be better than voting for Hillary Clinton (who I despise), but I quickly decided against it and decided to go for a third party candidate instead.

aaannndddd....this is how it is SUPPOSED TO BE. It is a free process in action. A process not-too-many other places have. Now we have learned the Democrats also had a hand in doing what is done in other dictator run places too. Tipping the scales so the dictator wins regardless. Then even if caught at it, the dictator still goes around unharmed, and even hires those that were instrumental in ensuring the dictator wins.

I see no difference in what the DNC did to Bernie than what goes on in many other third world dictatorships that hold "free elections". Yeah right. Funny how the dictator always wins those, isn't it?

Those that want to attack those that exercise their choices in that process, I have a big issue with. As I do with those that feel they need to DISRUPT that same process to keep the opposition from exercising their free right.
 

laska

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I guess I've changed my position that there is no way I'd vote for Hilary.
 

Captain Adverse

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I guess I've changed my position that there is no way I'd vote for Hilary.

But have you chosen anyone else, if so why? Or are you still un-committed at the present time?
 

RetiredNSmilin

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To the bolded;

Understood, but I would try my best to not let other's poor behaviour influence my political decisions.

But it sounds like you're still leaning to Trump on your own volition, and I can respect that. I looked hard at him, myself.

I find it hard to separate the poor behavior of their supporters from the candidate.

Trying to disrupt free speech all the while flying Mexican flags is one behavior.

Having the candidate's husband meet with the main investigator's boss in a private meeting, then in less than a week, have that same investigator drop the whole thing is a second behavior.

Placing the thumb on the scale during a primary, sending our electoral process back to the same level as a third world dictatorship is a third behavior.

then, yes...all of the completely idiotic and personal insults by both their supporters on DP is a fourth behavior.

All the while, I fought for, and respected their right to choose who they want, but for some reason, I do not get that same respect I give them.

You know I respect you, Chomsky, but in this case, I am not as noble as you are.

I worked hard to get the accomplishments I made in this life.
Being told I was a moron by both parents since I was 8 years old.
Forced to quit high school in the 10th grade due to some drug gang trying to kill me daily.
Then having to join the Navy, not by choice, but it being the only choice I had to get an education.

I worked hard to get those two diplomas, and now that I pick someone different than they choose, they somehow feel I am that same moron I was when I was 8 years old.

NO...some things are not excused.

Given a choice, I would have preferred to be an architect designing movie sets. But that was not how the cards fell.
 
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Captain Adverse

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The basic decision parameters were well known at the beginning. Nothing out of character has happened and not much has become known that was not either known or very probably before. Had BS won the nomination, I might have switched parties and gone unhappily to support Trump as the lesser evil. What has changed it that it appears Clinton is a much greater risk to the nation and its economy than I had initially expected.

So are you uncommitted? Thinking of supporting Trump? Going third party?
 

Chomsky

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The members know by now that I support Trump. I have posted reasons in various threads, but I guess this is as good a place as any to consolidate my position.

  1. I am a strong supporter of the Second Amendment as an individual right allowing common citizens to own the basic kinds of weapons that the average Infantryman would have. That means I oppose most gun control efforts, and support the appointment of Justices who agree with this position. Hillary Clinton is my political opposite on this issue, and has assured America that if elected she will appoint Justices who support reducing that right into near non-existence. Trump has at least stated he would appoint Justices who intend to preserve that right.
  2. I oppose government corruption. I am tired of candidates who have been bought and paid for by wealthy special interests. Trump is not as rich as he claims but he is definitely not under the control of other wealthy citizens, hence their antipathy to his candidacy. IMO Hillary is definitely corrupt, she is owned and happy to be bought.
  3. I oppose unrestricted Immigration and ALL refugee Migrations. That means I want to see our government vet immigrants to insure they are seeking to assimilate and not undermine our society. That I consider refugee migrants a problem because they simply want to transplant their whole culture and society here, with no intention to assimilate. Trump seems to agree, Hillary does not.
  4. I want to see our economy restored, and I oppose all of these International Trade Agreements which profit Corporations and foreign nations at the expense of our workforce. Trump seems to want to rebuild here, Hillary not so much.

These are the main reasons I support Trump. I can't commit to a Third Party because I honestly believe that means Hillary might win.
FWIW, your positions are similar to mine, though I'm probably more moderate on 2A (strongly support right-to-own & Castle Doctrine, lukewarm on carry, and against stand-your-ground).

And I might accept limited refugees under the right (well vetted) conditions.

You'll likely not find anyone more against illegal immigration than I am, though.
 

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I despise third party voters, atleast trump voters are supporting a legitimate candidate of a real political party, there is no 3rd party in America, just a bunch of self aggrandizing politicians trying to sell a few books and raise a quick dollar, if you want a real 3rd party you have to win elections on the local level, mayors, senators, governor elections, there isn't any, you could probably find more people who would vote for their state's secession than you could find who would vote for a 3rd party of any kind right now in America. Even if there were a 3rd party that had local support anywhere in the USA, you would still have to prove to the average american voter that a 3rd party is necessary since both parties are unwilling to reform to whatever the 3rd parties demands were, there is no such necessity.
 

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I despise third party voters, atleast trump voters are supporting a legitimate candidate of a real political party, there is no 3rd party in America, just a bunch of self aggrandizing politicians trying to sell a few books and raise a quick dollar, if you want a real 3rd party you have to win elections on the local level, mayors, senators, governor elections, there isn't any, you could probably find more people who would vote for their state's secession than you could find who would vote for a 3rd party of any kind right now in America. Even if there were a 3rd party that had local support anywhere in the USA, you would still have to prove to the average american voter that a 3rd party is necessary since both parties are unwilling to reform to whatever the 3rd parties demands were, there is no such necessity.

I think you are wrong on this because there are many people who are fed up with the corruption in the two present parties. The parties know they are corrupt, and at the same time, they are arrogant enough to believe that there isn't much that the average Jack & Jane can do about it. If enough people start voting 3rd party, it will eventually gain the attention needed from other voters to mount a serious challenge in future elections.

I will admit that this is a recent change of view on my part, but I am beginning to see the need for additional parties. The USA is not straight line democrat or republican anymore. There are millions of hybrids like myself who have liberal social ideas, along with old fashioned fiscal conservative ideas.
 
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dimensionallava

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I think you are wrong on this because there are many people who are fed up with the corruption in the two present parties. The parties know they are corrupt, and at the same time, they are arrogant enough to believe that there isn't much that the average Jack & Jane can do about it. If enough people start voting 3rd party, it will eventually gain the attention needed from other voters to mount a serious challenge in future elections.

I will admit that this is a recent change of view on my part, but I am beginning to see the need for additional parties. The USA is not straight line democrat or republican anymore. There are millions of hybrids like myself who have liberal social ideas, along with old fashioned fiscal conservative ideas.

First of all I disagree that there are many people who think their own party is corrupt, especially today in 2016. If you want proof look at the fact that Obama has an over 50% approval rating. If he had 22% like George bush had and congress had the 11% approval rating it does now. Then I might believe you.
 

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First of all I disagree that there are many people who think their own party is corrupt, especially today in 2016. If you want proof look at the fact that Obama has an over 50% approval rating. If he had 22% like George bush had and congress had the 11% approval rating it does now. Then I might believe you.

Individual favorability rating means very little in terms of the overall mistrust in political parties.

Your analogy reminds my someone reaching into the bottom of a Porta-John to select the best turd.

Rasmussen sort of nails it in this article.

53% Think Neither Political Party Represents the American People - Rasmussen Reports™
 

dimensionallava

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Individual favorability rating means very little in terms of the overall mistrust in political parties.

Your analogy reminds my someone reaching into the bottom of a Porta-John to select the best turd.

Rasmussen sort of nails it in this article.

53% Think Neither Political Party Represents the American People - Rasmussen Reportsâ„¢

speaking of reaching for "the best turd", that is an extremely obscure statistic, conducted by rasmussen of all places a polling center, thats proven to be heavily bias, and extremely innaccurate, their considered the least accurate of any major pollster. The statistic itself doesn't say much, since congressional approval is at 11%.

I think as a republican your trying to twist and turn the low approval ratings of your party, and the chaos of your primary, into "both parties do it too" which might as well be the republican motto at this point they do so much apologizing these days

I dont think people have "socially liberal and fiscal conservative ideas", that sounds like more nonsense sloganeering from the alt-right. we still see republicans demanding harsh laws concerning abortion, drugs, gay rights. And what is a fiscal liberal, have you ever heard anyone call themselves that? Seems like just another meaningless attack word meant to devalue the arguments of your opponents, rather than have a reasonable discussion. You just claim your ideas aren't based on fascism or oligarchy no theyre just "old fashioned fiscal conservativism" its just nonsense.
 

Captain Adverse

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I despise third party voters, atleast trump voters are supporting a legitimate candidate of a real political party, there is no 3rd party in America, just a bunch of self aggrandizing politicians trying to sell a few books and raise a quick dollar, if you want a real 3rd party you have to win elections on the local level, mayors, senators, governor elections, there isn't any, you could probably find more people who would vote for their state's secession than you could find who would vote for a 3rd party of any kind right now in America. Even if there were a 3rd party that had local support anywhere in the USA, you would still have to prove to the average american voter that a 3rd party is necessary since both parties are unwilling to reform to whatever the 3rd parties demands were, there is no such necessity.

Okay, so you aren't backing a third party.

So who do you intend to vote for now and why did you choose that candidate?

Perhaps you are still uncommitted? Or have no intention of voting?
 

Captain Adverse

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why would people support illegal immigration?

Cheaper than cheap labor. Illegals can't complain if you offer them below lawful minimum wages or market wages.

Meanwhile...as per my OP; have you changed your mind about who you intend to vote for?
 
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