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Has any Conspiracy Theory ever turned out to be True? [W:499]

I can't tell if any of that is actually a reply to my challenge or not. What in that list are you proposing was 1: Predictive, 2: Meaningfully specific, and 3: Not Mundane or Commonly suspected/accepted to be the case.

My point is to the general spirit of the subject the OP posted. What you seem to be asking is was there a conspiracy theory that pretty much exactly matched what was going on in MKUltra and my point is probably not exactly but there were conspiracy rumors of things somewhat like it. so meaningfully specific and not mundane... I don't know maybe not... but I didn't know we were writing a paper or something here but just discussing the them in general.
 
That's not true... it was discovered by Albert Hoffman in a search for an ergotamine derivative to treat migraines. He abandoned the LSD molecule for years but later unboxed it for further research. That was when he accidentally had skin contact with it and began hallucinating on his way home. Fun fact: LSD and ergotamine are the only sure fire substances in the world that can instantly stop migraines.

The CIA have used LSD in their experiments but they didn't invent it.

And yes MKULTRA is/was real. The U.S. government is big on mind control and ESP related stuff. They're probably light years ahead now in terms of what they're capable of.

I knew it came from somewhere other than the CIA itself, but didn't Albert Hoffman used to work for them (or at the very least the MKULTRA program)? I know that is at the very least a rumor.
 
My point is to the general spirit of the subject the OP posted. What you seem to be asking is was there a conspiracy theory that pretty much exactly matched what was going on in MKUltra and my point is probably not exactly but there were conspiracy rumors of things somewhat like it. so meaningfully specific and not mundane... I don't know maybe not... but I didn't know we were writing a paper or something here but just discussing the them in general.

Well, I outlined very specific and carefully worded criteria in my OP for a reason, to avoid exactly this kind of ambiguity. If what you are saying is that there are conspiracies out there and people's vague generally suspicions sometimes turn out to be vaguely generally true.....then of course I agree, no one could every disagree with that.

The spirit of this discussion is whether or not the Conspiracy Theorizing is ever, or has ever, be right or correct to any meaningful degree, or is it all just very vague general speculation that is pretty much always false or meaningless. And, as far as I can tell, it's the latter.
 
Well, I outlined very specific and carefully worded criteria in my OP for a reason, to avoid exactly this kind of ambiguity. If what you are saying is that there are conspiracies out there and people's vague generally suspicions sometimes turn out to be vaguely generally true.....then of course I agree, no one could every disagree with that.

The spirit of this discussion is whether or not the Conspiracy Theorizing is ever, or has ever, be right or correct to any meaningful degree, or is it all just very vague general speculation that is pretty much always false or meaningless. And, as far as I can tell, it's the latter.

Ambiguity is the hallmark of conspiracy theory.
 

Well this makes sense,

Stevens is very frank about how the new social phenomena, which had become a popular movement by the end of the 1960s, wasn’t the hippy love-in it is so often painted as. Haight-Ashbury, the central hippy community, during the summer of love: “Malnutrition, overcrowding, a few bad apples, paranoia, bad drugs, big egos, the absence of any leaders who were willing to call themselves leaders, the constant police harassment – there were dozens of reasons why it was going bad.” With Leary facing criminal charges, the death of Huxley, the banning of LSD and the media’s vilification thereof, the popular tide began to recede.

If the CIA couldn't have it all to themselves, no one could.
 
I recently heard someone deliver a simple challenge to a Conspiracy Theorist, a challenge that was not adequately answered, which made me wonder if the poor answer was simply a lacking of knowledge by that Conspiracy Theorist in particular, or if it was revealing something meaningful about the Conspiracy Theory approach in general.

Here is the question, and it is a very specific question, so please do read the criteria.

Has any Conspiracy Theory ever turned out to be true and vindicated in any meaningful way?

For a Conspiracy Theory to meet the challenge is must have the following traits:

It must be Predictive: That is to say that the theory must have been around and discussed PRIOR TO the general revelation or uncovering of the event the theory addresses. So Watergate is not a valid example as it was not "theorized" about prior to being revealed by journalistic processes.

It must be specific to meaningful degree: That is to say something very vague and general like "the government has stuff they don't want us to know about" doesn't count. Something more specific like "I think the government deliberately infected some US citizens to cause the Ebola scare to distract from other issues." would count, although extreme specificity regarding exact details is not required.

The Theory must regard something not generally known or suspected to be true: For example, "the government is testing experimental Weapons" would not count because although the details of particular weapons are secret, the idea that experimental weapons exist, and that they are generally kept secret until they are ready for deployment, is common knowledge and a fairly mundane claim. Meanwhile something like "HAARP is actually a government super weapon that can trigger earthquakes" would count, as that claim is not generally believed or known and would be fantastic in nature if true.

That's really pretty much it, the Theory must have predicted something, the thing it predicted must not have been mundane or commonly accepted, and the prediction must have had some reasonable level of specificity or meaningful information.


Has any Conspiracy Theory, by the above criteria, ever been vindicated?

It's good to see some logic applied. Now if only that logic could be applied to the Official Conspiracy Theory. Were that to happen to that theory, and it has been done many times, that theory cannot be validated.
 
prove? None? Really?

well, at least he is not biased!


It's hilarious!

More sad than hilarious, IMO. Tortured logic and cognitive dissonance are never good to observe.
 
More sad than hilarious, IMO. Tortured logic and cognitive dissonance are never good to observe.

Will you be contributing anything of value to this thread, or is your stock hollier than thou speech all we can expect?
 
Will you be contributing anything of value to this thread, or is your stock hollier than thou speech all we can expect?

again, some cheap shots.
 
He's a desperate poster making desperate posts...
 
again, some cheap shots.

It wasn't, it was a direct question. Funny though, you didn't take exception to Henry's cheap shot - which was very much a cheap shot. Double standard :confused:
 
It wasn't, it was a direct question. Funny though, you didn't take exception to Henry's cheap shot - which was very much a cheap shot. Double standard :confused:

You wish.


Anyway, a rough time is coming for you....the truth is out.
 
You wish.


Anyway, a rough time is coming for you....the truth is out.

How about Henry? Does he get a rough time too?

He's a desperate poster making desperate posts...

Just curious if you had anything to add to the OP and the discussion or just planned to keep beating your chest is all.
 
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How about Henry? Does he get a rough time too?



Just curious if you had anything to add to the OP and the discussion or just planned to keep beating your chest is all.

Oh The Ad Hominems. He can't help himself I guess.
 
Oh The Ad Hominems. He can't help himself I guess.

Ad Hominem

An argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Since neither you or Henry has stated a position,... However, this one might fit the definition:

He's a desperate poster making desperate posts...

Odd that you should call me out for asking Henry if he plans to make a contribution (state a position) in this thread or just posture, but when he calls me "desperate" you are strangely silent.

Double standard much?
 
Ad Hominem

An argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Since neither you or Henry has stated a position,... However, this one might fit the definition:



Odd that you should call me out for asking Henry if he plans to make a contribution (state a position) in this thread or just posture, but when he calls me "desperate" you are strangely silent.

Double standard much?

Why are you bothering to reply to a troll like Pin?
HD I understand pointing out his lack of logic, double standards and lies he is however a true believer but Pin is just a troll pure and simple
 
Ad Hominem

An argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

Since neither you or Henry has stated a position,... However, this one might fit the definition:



Odd that you should call me out for asking Henry if he plans to make a contribution (state a position) in this thread or just posture, but when he calls me "desperate" you are strangely silent.

Double standard much?

An Ad Hom is an Ad Hom is an Ad Hom.

Just some extrmely cheap shots. btw how much do you get paid?
 
Why are you bothering to reply to a troll like Pin?
HD I understand pointing out his lack of logic, double standards and lies he is however a true believer but Pin is just a troll pure and simple

I'm working up to my grand finale
 
How exciting....
 
I recently heard someone deliver a simple challenge to a Conspiracy Theorist, a challenge that was not adequately answered, which made me wonder if the poor answer was simply a lacking of knowledge by that Conspiracy Theorist in particular, or if it was revealing something meaningful about the Conspiracy Theory approach in general.

Here is the question, and it is a very specific question, so please do read the criteria.

Has any Conspiracy Theory ever turned out to be true and vindicated in any meaningful way?

For a Conspiracy Theory to meet the challenge is must have the following traits:

It must be Predictive: That is to say that the theory must have been around and discussed PRIOR TO the general revelation or uncovering of the event the theory addresses. So Watergate is not a valid example as it was not "theorized" about prior to being revealed by journalistic processes.

It must be specific to meaningful degree: That is to say something very vague and general like "the government has stuff they don't want us to know about" doesn't count. Something more specific like "I think the government deliberately infected some US citizens to cause the Ebola scare to distract from other issues." would count, although extreme specificity regarding exact details is not required.

The Theory must regard something not generally known or suspected to be true: For example, "the government is testing experimental Weapons" would not count because although the details of particular weapons are secret, the idea that experimental weapons exist, and that they are generally kept secret until they are ready for deployment, is common knowledge and a fairly mundane claim. Meanwhile something like "HAARP is actually a government super weapon that can trigger earthquakes" would count, as that claim is not generally believed or known and would be fantastic in nature if true.

That's really pretty much it, the Theory must have predicted something, the thing it predicted must not have been mundane or commonly accepted, and the prediction must have had some reasonable level of specificity or meaningful information.


Has any Conspiracy Theory, by the above criteria, ever been vindicated?

I skimmed through this thread, and before I address this one, how are you defining "Conspiracy theory"?

Literally speaking, a conspiracy theory is nothing more than a theory that two or more people conspired to create / influence an event or circumstance. In the common use as you hear the term in media, it has a very different meaning that is not connected to either "conspiracy" or a "theory".

The short answer, there have been many conspiracy theories that have been proven to be accurate, but I want to first make sure that we are actually talking about the same thing before I continue into specific examples.
 
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