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Has America Become a Machine of Evil?

Has America become a machine of evil?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 32.3%
  • No

    Votes: 21 67.7%

  • Total voters
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I saw this article and got me thinking:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/16/congress.debt.ap/index.html

I remember reading that shortly after the United States won the American Revolutionary War, the founding fathers sought to keep America out of debt and did a very good job. It was a much different America back then, not perfect but much different. Now, we are the most in debt nation in the world, a nation that had to go further in debt in order to prevent a default on US Treasury Notes, which of course is a temporary solution that will only make the long term problem worse. So, I started asking myself, has America destroyed the foundation that it was founded upon that made it such a powerful country? When you destroy the foundation of your nation, your nation will cease to be powerful eventually. We spend money like their is no tommorrow, we put ourselves into alot of debt to have everything NOW. We destroy the hopes and dreams of people overseas in our lust for power, resources and money. We pass laws that destroy the hard fought for freedoms here in this country. We imprison more people than any nation in the entire world. We have become what our founding fathers feared the most. Have we become a Machine of Evil, much like the Soviet Union did before it's collapse?
 
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Moderators may place in a poll asking whether this country has become a machine of evil or not if they so wish.
 

RightinNYC

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ManOfTrueTruth said:
Moderators may place in a poll asking whether this country has become a machine of evil or not if they so wish.

With your kind permission, a poll has been added.
 
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RightatNYU said:
With your kind permission, a poll has been added.

Thank you. Heck we have a trillion dollar debt and Americans suffer from over-taxation, the sort of taxation and debt that we have today would have been un-imaginable by America's founding fathers.
 

Goobieman

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ManOfTrueTruth said:
Thank you. Heck we have a trillion dollar debt and Americans suffer from over-taxation, the sort of taxation and debt that we have today would have been un-imaginable by America's founding fathers.

And who do we have to thank for this?
FDR and the Modern American Liberal.

:good_job:
 

talloulou

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I didn't answer the poll 'cause I don't understand it. Is debt a problem? Yes! Do Americans consume too much in general? Yes! Is the government a bloated spending machine? Yes. Is it 'cause we're evil? Huh? That's where you lost me. Republicans had a reputation for being the party that was better with money. Have they lost their way in that regard? Absolutely! Are the dems any better? Not in my opinion.

ManOfTrueTruth said:
When you destroy the foundation of your nation, your nation will cease to be powerful eventually.

It's my personal opinion that globalization has made the world a much smaller place. In the future there probably will no longer be room for countries who are "super powers". Right now there are struggles because many countries are rebelling against modernization. But, it is my opinion that they are also rebelling because the have nots always rebel against the haves. Once civilization reaches a certain point it's my guess that we will enter a period where we all have more equal footing. That means other people are going to take giant steps forward and Americans are going to have to take some steps back. Free trade and outsourcing are the signs and symptoms of the world making the adjustments that are pretty much unavoidable. People love to talk about the New World Agenda in a conspiracy theory way but really once the world becomes a "small" place its almost unavoidable. Eventually there probably will be a "world government." It's all very interesting to me. While we are currently witnessing the struggles of getting to that point I think its very possible that we may just all be better off when it happens.
 

Deegan

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No, I don't usually equate debt with evil, but I do wonder about these credit card companies, evil lives there somewhere, lol.:shock:
 

Goobieman

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A machine of evil?
How disconnected from reality do you have to be to even ask that?

America is the last, best hope for good to prevail in the world.

If we (listen to the liberals and) give up fighting the good fight, then the world will descend into an etenrnal pit of darkness.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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ManOfTrueTruth said:
I saw this article and got me thinking:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/16/congress.debt.ap/index.html

I remember reading that shortly after the United States won the American Revolutionary War, the founding fathers sought to keep America out of debt and did a very good job.

America has only been completely out of debt once in its entire history it was under the Administration of Andrew Jackson.

It was a much different America back then, not perfect but much different. Now, we are the most in debt nation in the world, a nation that had to go further in debt in order to prevent a default on US Treasury Notes, which of course is a temporary solution that will only make the long term problem worse.

We've had a huge national debt since WW2 what the hell is your point? We also have the most valued currency and the strongest economy in the world.

So, I started asking myself, has America destroyed the foundation that it was founded upon that made it such a powerful country? When you destroy the foundation of your nation, your nation will cease to be powerful eventually.

You're really not making much sense are you saying that the foundation of our country is remaining debt free? Because I could have sworn it was natural rights and the Constitution. :roll:


We spend money like their is no tommorrow, we put ourselves into alot of debt to have everything NOW.

Who gives a sh!t debt only hurts the economy when you increase taxes to pay it off.

We destroy the hopes and dreams of people overseas in our lust for power, resources and money.

Oh really you mean they would be better off if we didn't buy their products or build bussinesses in their countries? I hate to break it to you but under our system of capitalism and free trade the living standard worldwide is higher now then at any other point in history. Never before have so many people enjoyed so much bounty as today. Free trade, open markets, and evil capitalism have done more to cure hunger, war, poverty, and disease et al, then any other ideology in the history of the world. You sir have no idea what you're talking about.
We pass laws that destroy the hard fought for freedoms here in this country.

Name one sir do you know what the supreme court is? Do you know what their job is? It is to rule on the constitionality of legislation passed by congress and approved by the executive. Again you have no idea what you're talking about.

We imprison more people than any nation in the entire world.

That's because we have that little thing called freedom and with freedom comes responsibility some people can't handle that responsibility so they infringe on the rights of others and thus they have to be put away. We have higher population rates than Europe not to mention that their society is falling into moral and social decay. And in places like China or Iran they won't waste the money imprisoning you they'll just execute you with one behind the ear instead.

We have become what our founding fathers feared the most. Have we become a Machine of Evil, much like the Soviet Union did before it's collapse?


A machine of evil? lmfao, get the fuc/k out of here. In your rambling incoherent speech you did not make one statement that could be considered a rational thought. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.
 
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Willoughby

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America is the last, best hope for good to prevail in the world
thats a joke!..no really it is a joke isn't it?
 

RightinNYC

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Willoughby said:
thats a joke!..no really it is a joke isn't it?

The majority of your posts that I've seen are wholly comprised of unspecified criticism of the US. I'd really like to hear some specific (preferably factual) reasons why you think the US is so much worse than the UK, or for that matter, negatives about the US in general. It gets to be a bit tiring hearing snide comments over and over about how terrible the US is without anything behind it.
 

talloulou

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RightatNYU said:
The majority of your posts that I've seen are wholly comprised of unspecified criticism of the US. I'd really like to hear some specific (preferably factual) reasons why you think the US is so much worse than the UK, or for that matter, negatives about the US in general. It gets to be a bit tiring hearing snide comments over and over about how terrible the US is without anything behind it.

Oh please don't encourage him.
 

Willoughby

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The majority of your posts that I've seen are wholly comprised of unspecified criticism of the US. I'd really like to hear some specific (preferably factual) reasons why you think the US is so much worse than the UK, or for that matter, negatives about the US in general. It gets to be a bit tiring hearing snide comments over and over about how terrible the US is without anything behind it.
Ok fine just some off the top of my head:

National Health Service that covers everyone but is cheaper than the US Medicare

Guantanmo Bay - illegal detention of people in a land that is all about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

The extent to which businesses and lobbying firms that act for them play a part in US politics

Death Penalty

Guns, guns and yet more guns and a powerfull lobby to maintain them for the general population (see above about money and lobbying)
 

talloulou

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Willoughby said:
Guantanmo Bay - illegal detention of people in a land that is all about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

Since when is Cuba the land known for the pursuit of happiness?


Guns, guns and yet more guns and a powerfull lobby to maintain them for the general population (see above about money and lobbying)

I like knowing I could have a gun if I wanted one.
 

Willoughby

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Since when is Cuba the land known for the pursuit of happiness?
you know what i mean..the US runs the base!...seems i am not the only one who can make snide remarks

I like knowing I could have a gun if I wanted one.
And it is my opinion that guns useage/ownership should be curbed to near extinction....we will just have to disagree
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Willoughby said:
Ok fine just some off the top of my head:

National Health Service that covers everyone but is cheaper than the US Medicare

Ya because the national health care has worked out so very well for those nations that have tried it right. Like waiting months for inadequate treatment.
Guantanmo Bay - illegal detention of people in a land that is all about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

Oh how dare we arrest terrorist scum. And it's not illegal under the Geneva Convention these people are considered unlawful combatants and are not granted its protection.
The extent to which businesses and lobbying firms that act for them play a part in US politics

What's wrong with lobbyists? Don't you think it's only fair that bussiness owners should get a voice to the ear of the politicians who will pass legislation that will effect their bussinesses?
Death Penalty

Some people just need killin' ie the murderer of Carlie Brucia for one. I personally think old sparky is to quick and painless a death for that scum sucking piece of sh!t.
Guns, guns and yet more guns and a powerfull lobby to maintain them for the general population (see above about money and lobbying)

It's not lobbies that maintaim guns for the general population it's the 2nd amendment. The first act of every tyrant in the history of the world is to remove the right for the average citizen to arm themselves. Personally I'de be more worried about a government that took away our constitutionally guaranteed rights.
 
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Willoughby

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Oh how dare we arrest terrorist scum. And it's not illegal under the Geneva Convention these people are considered unlawful combatants and are not granted its protection.
I still belive that it is morally wrong

What's wrong with lobbyists? Don't you think it's only fair that bussiness owners should get a voice to the ear of the politicians who will pass legislation that will effect their bussinesses?
there is a difference between lobbyists having an ear to government and the sort of control/power that money seems to bring in washington

Some people need killin' ie the murderer of Sharlie Bruester for one. I personally think old sparky is to quick and painless a death for that scum sucking piece of sh!t.
I think it should be god's judgement not the states

It's not lobbies that maintaim guns for the general population it's the 2nd amendment. The first act of every tyrant in the history of the world is to remove the right for the average citizen to arm themselves. Personally I'de be more worried about a government that took away our constitutionally guaranteed rights.
fine ok then its the 2nd amendment that maintains the number of guns, whatever maintains it i don't agree with!
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Willoughby said:
I still belive that it is morally wrong

Why do you want to free terrorists so that they can go off and murder innocent civilians?

there is a difference between lobbyists having an ear to government and the sort of control/power that money seems to bring in washington

Umm it's illegal for lobbyists to give money and for politicians to make promises in exchange for gifts.

I think it should be god's judgement not the states

Oh, well isn't that sweet. And I'm sure that sentiment will really console the families of raped and murdered children. :roll:

fine ok then its the 2nd amendment that maintains the number of guns, whatever maintains it i don't agree with!

Well I don't agree with your 1st amendment right to shoot your mouth off and talk sh!t about my country so can I take that right away from you too?
 

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ManOfTrueTruth said:
Now, we are the most in debt nation in the world, a nation that had to go further in debt in order to prevent a default on US Treasury Notes, which of course is a temporary solution that will only make the long term problem worse. So, I started asking myself, has America destroyed the foundation that it was founded upon that made it such a powerful country? When you destroy the foundation of your nation, your nation will cease to be powerful eventually. We spend money like their is no tommorrow, we put ourselves into alot of debt to have everything NOW. We destroy the hopes and dreams of people overseas in our lust for power, resources and money. We pass laws that destroy the hard fought for freedoms here in this country. We imprison more people than any nation in the entire world. We have become what our founding fathers feared the most. Have we become a Machine of Evil, much like the Soviet Union did before it's collapse?


The solution to your problem is to vote for conservatives. Bush was the closest thing conservatives had to a fiscal conservative to vote for, and even thought desperate times DO call for desperate measures, we have put ourselves in a real financial jam for later.

If we are going to put our economy in the strongest position possible, we must:

-Cut the crap out of the federal budget and let the states handle their own affairs-as was intended in the first place. (out of control spending is easier for the voters to wreign in at the state level than at the federal level anyway)
-Enact the line item veto.
-Elect fiscally responsible officials.
-Put a serious leash on the labor unions who are sending our jobs overseas by needlessly making it even MORE unaffordable to hire Americans, and who are sodomizing our economy in a hundred other ways-not to mention, wrecking our educational system.
-Stop the frivolous lawsuits that discourage economic growth.
-Keep taxes low.
-Get illegal immigration under control and stop letting illegals sit on welfare, raise our healthcare costs, and crowd our prisons...

Have you noticed that nearly every single thing that needs done requires voting for conservatives? ;)
 

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Willoughby said:
National Health Service that covers everyone but is cheaper than the US Medicare

:rofl

National health care is why Europes economy moves at a crawl. Those other points are similarly slanted, BS spin too.
 

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Willoughby said:
Ok fine just some off the top of my head:
National Health Service that covers everyone but is cheaper than the US Medicare

And that's paid for by higher taxes on the citizens, which results in a larger, less efficient government. That's why since it's inception after WWII, the NHS has been moving inexorably toward privatization one step at a time.

Guantanmo Bay - illegal detention of people in a land that is all about "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"

As I recall, weren't many of the most egregious examples of prisoner abuse committed by UK troops?

The extent to which businesses and lobbying firms that act for them play a part in US politics

People get so hyped up over "evil lobbyists." What are lobbyists? People lobbying government on behalf of citizens. Everyone loves to hate on things like the cigarette lobby, or the energy lobby, but what about those other lobbyists? The AARP? Are they evil? NAACP? How about Police and Fire unions? It's called collective bargaining, and it's guaranteed by the constitution. If you want to ban lobbying, then ban unions altogether. While some of the extent lobbyists go to I find distasteful, and I agree they should be regulated, it's much ado about little.

Death Penalty

Well, that's one opinion.

Guns, guns and yet more guns and a powerfull lobby to maintain them for the general population (see above about money and lobbying)

We have a 2nd amendment. Sorry.
 

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Willoughby said:
there is a difference between lobbyists having an ear to government and the sort of control/power that money seems to bring in washington

And I would argue that there's a difference between what you probably see in the press in London and what the day to day life is like in the US gov. All government is corrupt to some degree, and I see no evidence that the US is any worse than anyone else.


I think it should be god's judgement not the states

Who are you to impose your belief in a god on the state?

fine ok then its the 2nd amendment that maintains the number of guns, whatever maintains it i don't agree with!

I personally find it appalling the level of control that you allow the government to have in your private life in England, but then, that's what your people chose, so I respect you for it.
 

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Who are you to impose your belief in a god on the state?
i am not opposing any belief on any states, i just don't see it as morally right


And I would argue that there's a difference between what you probably see in the press in London and what the day to day life is like in the US gov. All government is corrupt to some degree, and I see no evidence that the US is any worse than anyone else.
You are probably right, the same applies to your view of britains NHS for instance. I just find figures on spending in US election and so forth very frightening

As I recall, weren't many of the most egregious examples of prisoner abuse committed by UK troops?
you are quite right but i don't go around making statements about my countries moral supremacy, or statements saying that my system of government is the best in the world, or statements saying that my country has had the greatest impact on mankind.
 

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Willoughby said:
thats a joke!..no really it is a joke isn't it?

Who, specifically, has done more to spread good and fight evil in the world than the United States, and in what context?

-The United States has, directly or indirectly freed untold hundreds of millions of people from tyranny and gave them their right to self-determination. No other country comes close in this, and no other country or group of countries has the will or the resources to continue this effort.

-The United States, presently and historically, leads the world in opposing oppressive, dictatorial states that oppress their own people and look to expand their influence over others through the use of force. NO other nation has the will or the resources to do this, alone or in concert. WE draw the line and WE deliver the punishment for stepping over it.

-The United States is always the first to arrive in an catastpophic natural disaster, and is always the leader in the amount of money, goods and services in reflief efforts for same (and never, EVER asks for help when disaster strikes her own shores) -- even whtn a nominally unfriendly nation is the victim. The United States, alone, has the grace, the goodwill and the resources to do this.

The United States is the bulwark from freedom and equality in the world because no one else has the commitment to freedom and liberty and the resources to effectively act on that commitment. If the United States decides to pass on the job, then freedom and liberty are doomed.

Rather than continue to bash the United States with snide, immature and bigoted remarks, why dont you tell us who has done more, who would take our place, and how they would do better.

This should be amusing.
 
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