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Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun Con

mac

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Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun Control

“The study was overlooked when it first came out in 2007,” writes Michael Snyder, “but it was recently re-discovered and while the findings may not surprise some, the place where the study was undertaken is a bit surprising. The study came from the Harvard Journal of Law, that bastion of extreme, Ivy League liberalism. Titled Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?, the report “found some surprising things.”


 

ttwtt78640

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun


The article seems to contradict itself. If the study (as well as other data) shows that there is no consistent positive relationship between firearm ownership rates and murder rates then what, exactly, has been proven? Clearly not that there is such a negative relationship. ;)

There is no consistent significant positive association between gun ownership levels and violence rates.
 
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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

The article seems to contradict itself. If the study (as well as other data) shows that there is no consistent positive relationship between firearm ownership rates and murder rates then what, exactly, has been proven? Clearly not that there is such a negative relationship. ;)

Actually, the data I looked at from Europe and the Americas looking at every US State instead of the US as a whole shows no significant correlation between gun ownership and murder. I will look at this study more closely, as I did not, when I first saw it.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun


And this seems a very good argument against registration of arms:

"“Gun owners across America reading this right now will say: ‘Well, duh!’” writes Michael Snyder. Even so, the California state legislature recently approved $24 million to expedite the confiscation of 40,000 handguns and assault weapons purchased legally, according to the Huffington Post. Gun registration records are being used to seize those California guns from owners who legally purchased and registered the guns – but who the state of California has now decided pose a risk to public safety.

“We are fortunate in California to have the first and only system in the nation that tracks and identifies individuals who at one time made legal purchases of firearms but are now barred from possessing them,” said Senator Mark Leno (D-San Francisco)."
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

The article seems to contradict itself. If the study (as well as other data) shows that there is no consistent positive relationship between firearm ownership rates and murder rates then what, exactly, has been proven? Clearly not that there is such a negative relationship. ;)

I take that to mean (positive association) that high gun ownership rates does not equate to more or higher rates of violence.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun


Don't believe everything you read on the internet.... This story is not a "study" only propaganda written by gun activists.

In short, the purported 2007 Harvard "study" with "astonishing" findings was in fact a polemic paper penned by two well-known gun rights activists. Its findings were neither peer-reviewed nor subject to academic scrutiny of any sort prior to its appearance, and the publication that carried it was a self-identified ideology-based editorial outlet edited by Harvard students. The paper disingenuously misrepresented extant research to draw its conclusions, and researchers at Harvard (among which Kates and Mauser were not included) later objected to the paper's being framed as a "study" from Harvard (rather than a law review paper). The paper wasn't "virtually unpublicized research" (as BeliefNet claimed); rather, it was simply not deemed noteworthy at the time it was published due to the fact it was neither a study nor much more than a jointly-written editorial piece representing its authors' unsupported opinions.
FALSE: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun Control : snopes.com
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.... This story is not a "study" only propaganda written by gun activists.


FALSE: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun Control : snopes.com

actually the banoid organizations such as the Vile Propaganda Center or head banoid stooge Hemenway of Harvard spew obvious propaganda. There are no objective studies that gun control as the Democraps push has any good in decreasing crime

but that argument doesn't mean much to the banoid organizations because decreasing crime is not what actually motivates the banoid groups
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

I take that to mean (positive association) that high gun ownership rates does not equate to more or higher rates of violence.

Yep, so that also means that lower legal gun ownership rates does not equate to lower rates of violence. What is typically done is to toss out any outliers, e.g. Mexico, to then make the (edited?) data provided fit the theory.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun


Now that we know that this is an opinion piece that is not backed up with facts or data, why should we bother reading it? It is just more meaningless drivel that was probably financed by the gun manufacturers. More guns = more gun violence is a universal constant. Just owning a gun raises your chances of being shot by it.
 
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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Now that we know that this is an opinion piece that is not backed up with facts or data, why should we bother reading it? It is just more meaningless drivel.

While "study" may not be accurate, I don't think "opinion piece" is either. Research paper or sourced article might be better. Regardless, it does cite facts and data. Read the article, and the authors are not just two gun nuts.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

While "study" may not be accurate, I don't think "opinion piece" is either. Research paper or sourced article might be better. Regardless, it does cite facts and data. Read the article, and the authors are not just two gun nuts.

I read the paper they cited and it stated nothing that the opinion piece claimed. The results were inconclusive and more studies are needed. To bad these studies have been outlawed by Congress.

In conclusion, the application of imperfect methods to imperfect data has commonly resulted in inconsistent and otherwise insufficient evidence with which to determine the effectiveness of firearms laws in modifying violent outcomes.

This is a critical period for focused research on the effectiveness of firearms laws in reducing violence in the United States. International comparisons indicate that the United States is an outlier among developed, industrialized nations in rates of firearms violence (2). Widespread public concern exists about criminal firearms violence, firearms violence among youth, and other forms of firearms violence, and popular support for many firearms laws is evident (34,35). Although the Task Force's systematic review of the existing literature on firearms laws found insufficient evidence to determine the effectiveness of these laws in preventing violence, research should continue on the effectiveness of firearms laws as one approach to the prevention or reduction of firearms violence and firearms injury. Evaluation should include not only the laws reviewed here, but the broad array of other federal, state, and local laws.
First Reports Evaluating the Effectiveness of Strategies for Preventing Violence: Firearms Laws
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.... This story is not a "study" only propaganda written by gun activists.


FALSE: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun Control : snopes.com

I read the article and it offered zero, nada, nothing in the way of data to rebut the study. All it stated was that it wasn't "peer reviewed". Let me translate that. "It wasn't bought off on by our other liberal staff so it is wrong in spite of the fact that we offer no other argument or data. It is just wrong because we say it is wrong."
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Now that we know that this is an opinion piece that is not backed up with facts or data, why should we bother reading it? It is just more meaningless drivel that was probably financed by the gun manufacturers. More guns = more gun violence is a universal constant. Just owning a gun raises your chances of being shot by it.

"Probably" is definitely an opinion, not evidence.

It does cite facts but reading it wouldn't support your narrative, so why bother. No need to observe evidence when bias is king.

Wouldn't want to influence anyone's irrational fear of gun ownership.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Now that we know that this is an opinion piece that is not backed up with facts or data, why should we bother reading it? It is just more meaningless drivel that was probably financed by the gun manufacturers. More guns = more gun violence is a universal constant. Just owning a gun raises your chances of being shot by it.

The Snopes article offer nothing in the way of data. The people quoted by snopes had no facts or data. The study offered a ton of facts and data.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

I read the article and it offered zero, nada, nothing in the way of data to rebut the study. All it stated was that it wasn't "peer reviewed". Let me translate that. "It wasn't bought off on by our other liberal staff so it is wrong in spite of the fact that we offer no other argument or data. It is just wrong because we say it is wrong."

They cited the ORIGINAL study that the paper was based on and found that it did not support the authors conclusions. That is why they declared it FALSE.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

I read the paper they cited and it stated nothing that the opinion piece claimed.

That's simply untrue.

The results were inconclusive and more studies are needed. To bad these studies have been outlawed by Congress.

To this I agree. More study needs to be completed.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Now that we know that this is an opinion piece that is not backed up with facts or data, why should we bother reading it? It is just more meaningless drivel that was probably financed by the gun manufacturers. More guns = more gun violence is a universal constant. Just owning a gun raises your chances of being shot by it.

The we need less freedom in order to protect us from ourselves argument is raised again. Owning a pool increases the chances that you will drown in it and owning a car increases the chances that you will crash in it. Before we start taking away rights that cause some harm why not take away mere privileges that cause more harm first?
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Μολὼν λαβέ;1065326440 said:
"Probably" is definitely an opinion, not evidence.

It does cite facts but reading it wouldn't support your narrative, so why bother. No need to observe evidence when bias is king.

Wouldn't want to influence anyone's irrational fear of gun ownership.

Greetings, Mo. :2wave:

I find it disturbing that this administration seems to be using the totally illogical argument that since criminals and terrorists are using guns to kill people, we need to ban gun ownership! I hope someone can explain that disconnect. Millions of legal gun owners didn't kill anyone yesterday, or the day before, to my knowledge. We are at war with the dregs of society, so now is the time for people to turn in their guns? Yeah, that ought to sell... :shock:
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

They cited the ORIGINAL study that the paper was based on and found that it did not support the authors conclusions. That is why they declared it FALSE.

The "ORIGINAL" study was done by Gary Mauser and Don Kates. The second "study, which isn't a study at all, was done During 2000--2002, by the Task Force on Community Preventive Services (the Task Force), an independent nonfederal task force. They are different studies. If you look at the "original" study it is an actual study with facts and figures to deduce an conclusion. The second study was not even done by the CDC. It was done by a non federal acency.

The Community Preventive Services Task Force (Task Force) is an independent, nonfederal, unpaid panel of public health and prevention experts that provides evidence-based findings and recommendations about community preventive services, programs, and policies to improve health. Its members represent a broad range of research, practice, and policy expertise in community preventive services, public health, health promotion, and disease prevention.

The fifteen Task Force members are appointed by the Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Task Force members serve five year terms, with possible extensions to maintain a full scope of expertise, complete specific work, and ensure consistency of Task Force recommendations.

The 2nd Study is whole and apart different from the original study. The 2nd study does not come to any conclusion except to say that they can't come to a conclusion. The reason they "can't" come to a conclusion is because the second study is a hit piece on the first study and not an actual study and that is the only purpose of the second study.
 

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

The we need less freedom in order to protect us from ourselves argument is raised again. Owning a pool increases the chances that you will drown in it and owning a car increases the chances that you will crash in it. Before we start taking away rights that cause some harm why not take away mere privileges that cause more harm first?

I'm so tired of these false analogies. Cars transport people and yet we regulate the heck out of them to reduce injuries and death. Pools are to swim in and we regulate them too with fences to keep out young ones. Guns are to kill people, very often the owners themselves yet we need to make them as available as milk and any regulations are forbidden. There at least need to be warning labels telling prospective buyers that they are increasing their chance of violent death by owning one. How many buyers know this fact? Or the fact that even police have found that their most dangerous weapon is their own gun?
 
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ttwtt78640

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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

I'm so tired of these false analogies. Cars transport people and yet we regulate the heck out of them to reduce injuries and death. Pools are to swim in and we regulate them too with fences to keep out young ones. Guns are to kill people, very often the owners themselves yet we need to make them as available as milk and any regulations are forbidden. There at least need to be warning labels telling prospective buyers that they are increasing their chance of violent death by owning one. How many buyers know this fact? Or the fact that even police have found that their most dangerous weapon is their own gun?

To pretend that guns are now less regulated than pools ignores reality. I have no objection to "warning labels" - finally, some common sense gun control policy emerges.
 
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Re: Harvard University Study Reveals Astonishing Link Between Firearms, Crime and Gun

Greetings, Mo. :2wave:

I find it disturbing that this administration seems to be using the totally illogical argument that since criminals and terrorists are using guns to kill people, we need to ban gun ownership! I hope someone can explain that disconnect. Millions of legal gun owners didn't kill anyone yesterday, or the day before, to my knowledge. We are at war with the dregs of society, so now is the time for people to turn in their guns? Yeah, that ought to sell... :shock:

Greetings, Miss P. :2wave:

:thumbs:
 
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