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Handgun freeze in Canada and five-round limit on magazines

TurtleDude

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The criminal element doesn't obey laws. You still have laws.
banning stuff that harms people makes sense=-
banning actions that harm no one and claiming it will stop those who engage in harmful activity despite the laws against that malum per se activity is stupid

this is law is the sign of an impotent government pretending to do something
 

TurtleDude

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The Secret Service can use weapons normal Americans can't.
like surface to air missiles to protect the white house but civilians should be able to own the same firearms civilian law enforcement uses
 

trixare4kids

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banning stuff that harms people makes sense=-
banning actions that harm no one and claiming it will stop those who engage in harmful activity despite the laws against that malum per se activity is stupid

this is law is the sign of an impotent government pretending to do something

What's scary is that the Ca. government used a US mass school shooting for their ultimate gun grab... Sick and calculating.
 

Callen

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What's scary is that the Ca. government used a US mass school shooting for their ultimate gun grab... Sick and calculating.
This law was first introduced 13 months ago but the snap election put it on hold. Trudeau may have used the shooting for drama to reintroduce the law, he is a definitely a drama king, but it certainly wasn't the reason for the law.
 
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Ug make hammer

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banning actions that harm no one and claiming it will stop those who engage in harmful activity despite the laws against that malum per se activity is stupid

The "action" in this case is owning a gun. How you think gun owners aren't harming anyone, I do not understand.

You have to make the distinction "legal" and "illegal" owners, but even that only cuts the number down. One relationship breakup and half a bottle of bourbon is all that stands between such a legal gun owner, and becoming a murderer.

Saying government shouldn't do ANYTHING to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, is like saying government should allow drugs to be manufactured and sold freely, but then throw people in prison for failing a drug test. In other words, it's deliberately tying government's hands until damage is actually done.


Yes, if somebody is destroying themselves and degrading society by using drugs, I wanna direct intervention in their lives.

None of your business, or mine. "Degrading society" is done by law enforcement making the trade illegal. Ie, BY YOU.
Putting people in prison is pretty degrading you know.

No, That is a silly contention. Also, a large percentage of crime including that committed with firearms in the United States is in one way or another related to drugs.

Yes because most drugs are illegal. Producers and traders can't turn to the law for protection, only to guns. And because the trade is illegal, everyone involved asks a greater markup to cover their personal risk. The more cash money they deal in, the more attractive target they are for gangsters and other criminals. Addiction does drive people to commit crimes, yes, but even that problem would be a lot less without the price of drugs being inflated by illegality.

Enforcement is causing far greater social harm than the drugs themselves are. We should have all drugs legal to produce, trade and consume and then the wider social harm would be no greater than that of alcohol or tobacco.

BC, Canada just began a temporary regime of not arresting, charging or confiscating drugs. And not just pot. I started a thread about it.
 

bave

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You have to make the distinction "legal" and "illegal" owners, but even that only cuts the number down. One relationship breakup and half a bottle of bourbon is all that stands between such a legal gun owner, and becoming a murderer.

And yet in the other thread you are fully supporting the legalization of the hardest of drugs......

None of your business, or mine. "Degrading society" is done by law enforcement making the trade illegal. Ie, BY YOU.
Putting people in prison is pretty degrading you know.

You have your chicken and egg broken. The police aren't degrading society by forcing you to take drugs and then arresting you for it. You are breaking the rules, you did that first. The police don't make the rules, legislation does that. If you don't think drug abuse tears apart a community you are insane.
 

Callen

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As a Canadian, do you have a problem with your law abiding good citizen neighbors having the ability to make a personal choice for them to own a handgun if they feel they want one?
As long as it is legal to own one I have no issue with someone choosing to own one. I am not an avid anti handgun person. However, I don't see the need for a handgun and I don't know a single person who does.

For some reason, people seem to think this is a Trudeau thing. It isn't, there has been a call for additional gun restrictions for some time. This bill is over 13 months old, although this one bans all new handguns and the previous one gave that power to municipalities. Tightening gun restrictions was a campaign issue.It was well known before the election that this bill would be passed with a Liberal or NDP government and his party was reelected albeit with another minority

It would not surprise me to see the handgun portion of this bill modified back to it's original version as it relates to handguns. That is allowing municipalities to ban handguns if they choose to rather than a national ban.
 

American

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I think the Liberal Party and Mr. Trudeau have gone too far. I fully support the red-flag measures and limiting the rounds limit for rifle clips, but banning all handguns goes too far. We are trying to solve inner-city issues on the backs of all Canadians, urban and rural. I think a better solution would be to give municipalities the power to ban some or all handguns within their city limits and put the full force of the federal government behind enforcing such municipal bans. I am not sure I like the mandatory buy-back policy either as gun owners were promised they could keep their grandfathered arms when the last round of legislation banned the sales of these many types of semi-automatic weapons. Governments should not lie to their own people.

So I hope gun owners challenge the new legislation in the across-the-board handgun ban and the mandatory buy-back provisions as the Federal Government in my opinion is reaching too far. Custom and usage has allowed law-abiding Canadians to own firearms for more than four centuries and that long and storied tradition should not be set aside by politicians trying to find a one solution for all remedy for urban gun violence.

Another concern is the situation of aboriginal people and treaties with them which would be impacted by this measure. We still have treaties on the books allowing First Nations people to freely transport firearms, furs and tobacco across jurisdictional borders and this and some previous recent laws have unilaterally abrogated those treaty obligations.

I think this legislation should be rethought and put before the people in the next election.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
They're called magazines, not clips. At least try to get educated on the topic before posting fundamental stuff like that. Limiting magazine size is a canard, and does nothing to help the matter at all. People just bring more magazines.

I agree Trudeau has gone too far, but Canada doesn't have the same ideology about liberty. They could have been part of the US, but didn't want to.

Can you tell the difference between the magazine on the left and the clip on the right?
1654084828162.png
Clips are for breach loading rifles like the M1 Garand.
 

Hatuey

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I’ve been to Canada many times, including at Canadian gun shows. There is certainly an active sports shooting community in Canada.

Maybe you should use your passport To travel to the donetsk People’s Republic And learn about just how much the Russian speaking people in the Don basin actually want to be part of the maidan regime government


Lmao, bahahahaha an active sports shooting community. That's your side in Canada?

And some pro-Russian cuckery to boot, you've outdone yourself.
 

Callen

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Interesting article in the Globe and Mail today. Can't seem to link to it but will cut and paste the part I found interesting. Seems the mayors of all the major cities including Edmonton....that surprised me....are unhappy about the bill because they want a total ban on all handguns not just new handguns.



"Edmonton Mayor Amarjeet Sohi, a former member of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s cabinets, praised the government’s firearms legislation as a “much-needed step towards safer communities for all Canadians,” but called for a handgun ban.

“I am in full support of phasing-out handgun ownership in Alberta, and I am encouraged by our provincial government’s renewed interest in community safety to get this done,” Mr. Sohi said in a statement.

"A large majority of Ontarians support a ban on handguns, according to a new election poll released Tuesday, just a day after the federal government tabled new gun-control legislation.

The poll, conducted by Nanos Research for Th Of those surveyed in the Greater Toronto Area, 82 per cent voiced support compared to 77 per cent in the rest of the province. Nanos randomly polled 501 residents between May 28 and 31 in advance of the June 2 election."

"On Tuesday, Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart offered a succinct view of the issue: “Handguns have no place in cities. A national ban on handguns would make Vancouver safer,” he said in a statement."

"Toronto Mayor John Tory and Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante, responding to the firearms legislation, both called for bans on handguns."
 

Tigerace117

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How does the above change my point?

That whining about “soy boys” is dumb, because most Canadians don’t agree with Americans’ paranoia and pathetic delusion that hoarding guns has anything to do with “toughness”.
 

Evilroddy

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Interesting article in the Globe and Mail today. Can't seem to link to it but will cut and paste the part I found interesting. Seems the mayors of all the major cities including Edmonton....that surprised me....are unhappy about the bill because they want a total ban on all handguns not just new handguns.



"Edmonton Mayor Amarjeet Sohi, a former member of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s cabinets, praised the government’s firearms legislation as a “much-needed step towards safer communities for all Canadians,” but called for a handgun ban.

“I am in full support of phasing-out handgun ownership in Alberta, and I am encouraged by our provincial government’s renewed interest in community safety to get this done,” Mr. Sohi said in a statement.

"A large majority of Ontarians support a ban on handguns, according to a new election poll released Tuesday, just a day after the federal government tabled new gun-control legislation.

The poll, conducted by Nanos Research for Th Of those surveyed in the Greater Toronto Area, 82 per cent voiced support compared to 77 per cent in the rest of the province. Nanos randomly polled 501 residents between May 28 and 31 in advance of the June 2 election."

"On Tuesday, Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart offered a succinct view of the issue: “Handguns have no place in cities. A national ban on handguns would make Vancouver safer,” he said in a statement."

"Toronto Mayor John Tory and Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante, responding to the firearms legislation, both called for bans on handguns."
Callen:

All those whom you quoted from the article and likely the great majority of those who were polled were large metropolitan area, urban-living Canadians. Do you think it's right to solve urban gun violence problems by taking away the ability to lawfully own arms from small town and rural populations? There have been handguns lawfully owned in pre-Canada and Canada for more than 400 years. Why should a problem just emerging in the last 40-50 years sweep away legal precedent and custom and usage (legal tradition) with the stroke of a prime ministerial pen?

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 

Evilroddy

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They're called magazines, not clips. At least try to get educated on the topic before posting fundamental stuff like that. Limiting magazine size is a canard, and does nothing to help the matter at all. People just bring more magazines.

I agree Trudeau has gone too far, but Canada doesn't have the same ideology about liberty. They could have been part of the US, but didn't want to.

Can you tell the difference between the magazine on the left and the clip on the right?
View attachment 67394137
Clips are for breach loading rifles like the M1 Garand.
American:

When I owned my old Lee Enfield No. 1 Mk3 SMLE, it was loaded by 5-round clips into its internal magazine. What you have pictured on the left above is an external magazine. So in the case of some rifles the word "clips" applies as you have noted above. But thank you for the caution. When in America use American idioms.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
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Grand Mal

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Millions of Canadians live in the US several months every year and many have immigrated here. That tells you where the better place to live is. We have thousands more Canadians come here for healthcare every year because they don't want to wait until they die before getting treated. We have states with bigger economies that your country. We also don't have to worry about getting eaten by polar bears. Oh and our leaders don't glue their eyebrows on.

If you are not aware of what things cost in your puny country, I feel sorry for you.
Yeah, take credit for the winter weather. Those Canadians who winter there? I know several. You should hear what they have to say here.
I hear there's more American babies born in the hospital in Windsor, across the river from Detroit, than Canadian. If you want to check up on the effect of the healthcare of the two countries, look at life expectancy. Americans shrivel and die at an age when Canadians are still hiking and golfing.
As for leaders, I don't like Trudeau at all, not even a little bit, but the kinds of idiots and crooks your system gives you to choose between couldn't get elected to a parks board up here.
Life in a beehive does thay to you over time, I guess, narrows your vision to where all you can see is the hive and the butts of the bees ahead of you.
 

Callen

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Callen:

All those whom you quoted from the article and likely the great majority of those who were polled were large metropolitan area, urban-living Canadians. Do you think it's right to solve urban gun violence problems by taking away the ability to lawfully own arms from small town and rural populations? There have been handguns lawfully owned in pre-Canada and Canada for more than 400 years. Why should a problem just emerging in the last 40-50 years sweep away legal precedent and custom and usage (legal tradition) with the stroke of a prime ministerial pen?

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

One of the clips was a poll of all Ontarians and while 82% of urban dwellers support a ban on handguns a whopping 77% of the remainder of the Province supported the ban. I don't know if the is representative of the rest of the country but it certainly is the most populace Province.

Personally, I am ambivalent but it does appear a significant number of Canadians support some level of restriction to handguns. This bill, as written, does not take away anyone's handguns.
 

Evilroddy

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One of the clips was a poll of all Ontarians and while 82% of urban dwellers support a ban on handguns a whopping 77% of the remainder of the Province supported the ban. I don't know if the is representative of the rest of the country but it certainly is the most populace Province.

Personally, I am ambivalent but it does appear a significant number of Canadians support some level of restriction to handguns. This bill, as written, does not take away anyone's handguns.
Callen:

Are you sure? Your quote said 82% were from the Greater Metro-Toronto area but did not indicate where the other group of 77% of Ontarians were from. I would argue that since the province is so urbanised, most of those 77% from outside the GTA were urban dwellers too.

I think that towns and cities should have the power to make the carrying of operable handguns illegal within their jurisdictions but should stay out of peoples' homes. If a registered handgun is legally in a home and remains there then that should be enough. If the owner wants to move it while moving to a new home it must be disassembled and safely secured from theft during the move. I think the Federal Government should throw its full weight of enforcement behind such towns and cities if they choose to make the carrying of operable handguns illegal.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 

Callen

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Callen:

Are you sure? Your quote said 82% were from the Greater Metro-Toronto area but did not indicate where the other group of 77% of Ontarians were from. I would argue that since the province is so urbanised, most of those 77% from outside the GTA were urban dwellers too.

I think that towns and cities should have the power to make the carrying of operable handguns illegal within their jurisdictions but should stay out of peoples' homes. If a registered handgun is legally in a home and remains there then that should be enough. If the owner wants to move it while moving to a new home it must be disassembled and safely secured from theft during the move. I think the Federal Government should throw its full weight of enforcement behind such towns and cities if they choose to make the carrying of operable handguns illegal.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

Carrying a handgun outside of your home without a license to carry is already illegal and, as you know, obtaining a licence to carry a handgun is very difficult. As I said I am ambivalent but if a law to regulate ownership handguns is to be then it has to be at least at a Provincial level. Banning or restricting handguns at a municipal level is unworkable in my view. I don't support a law banning existing owners from owning a gun.
 

Allan

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Generally speaking, no one ever discusses Canada with any regularity at all.
Or any other 'boring' country for that matter. Boring as in few controversies or stupid political leaders. We get ignored along with Norway, Sweden, Austria et al. The attention is more focused on the US, Russia, China, Turkey sometimes, the UK occasionally (when Boris is bad) and so on.

The only large amount of attention that ever got focused on Canada was during the trucker's demonstration, and now with the gun law changes.
 

American

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Or any other 'boring' country for that matter. Boring as in few controversies or stupid political leaders. We get ignored along with Norway, Sweden, Austria et al. The attention is more focused on the US, Russia, China, Turkey sometimes, the UK occasionally (when Boris is bad) and so on.

The only large amount of attention that ever got focused on Canada was during the trucker's demonstration, and now with the gun law changes.
Oh I think your leader is stupid, I just don't say anything unless Canada comes up. ;) But I doubt you're surprised. LOL
 

Deuce

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No, they have a harder time getting prestige jobs.

You could walk into Hormel or Smithfield and get a job. If you’re strong and willing to follow orders you can work on a fishing boat, you can sign a contract and go to Dutch harbor to cut frozen fish. 12 hours a day 6 days a week.

I’m not a felon but I went to a presentation for that job once when I was 18 and the economy was bad. I wish I had done it. But even when the economy sucked you could do that job. Even with Criminal convictions.

However, now that there’s a lot of low skilled foreign citizens in America you can’t self contract you used to be able to because the prices have been pushed down.
The data on this is very clear. It is harder for people with a criminal record to get any job. Especially if they're also black.
 

Hypothetical

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If it's only the police who would encounter "a group of suspects involved in an armed robbery," one can't help but wonder who they were robbing.
they are robbing imaginary people who don;t matter, of course. of course the police encounter is usually AFTER the robbers have harmed or stolen from said imaginary people.
 

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Not in America. In America the government can only stand back in awe at the carnage of 'good guys with guns'.
yeah whatever. keeps them honest. yo netter hope america ever does go tyrannical, because when it does your little country will be making some big changes.
 

Allan

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yeah whatever. keeps them honest. yo netter hope america ever does go tyrannical, because when it does your little country will be making some big changes.
No we won't be doing that. Neither will any other liberal democracies in the world.
 
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