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Hamid Karzai demands US hand over gunmen who killed children

RightinNYC

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What part of it? Or all of it?

Or that the students were sleeping? Or handcuffed?

All of it. It simply doesn't make sense that US troops would conduct a raid, detain a group of children, handcuff them, and execute them. Why on earth would they do that? What would they have to gain?

Since the US and NATO both vehemently deny this and the only source for the claim are some Afghan officials, I think I'll wait before demanding the extradition of US troops to be hung as war criminals.

Yes, I do, see the difference......

So then why are you arguing that because those accidents transpired, it's logical to assume that this execution occurred?
 

RyrineaHaruno

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So then why are you arguing that because those accidents transpired, it's logical to assume that this execution occurred?


I am not, I was pointing out that they could have mistaking them for enemies ectt.



All of it. It simply doesn't make sense that US troops would conduct a raid, detain a group of children, handcuff them, and execute them. Why on earth would they do that? What would they have to gain?

Vietnam, hello My Lai Massacre does that ring any bell with you. . They don't need excuses to kill people when they are just gun ho to kill the enemy. Its not that hard to believe. BUt I too will wait for an investigation.
 

RightinNYC

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I am not, I was pointing out that they could have mistaking them for enemies ectt.

Even if they mistook the kids for enemies, why would they execute them once they were handcuffed?

Vietnam, hello My Lai Massacre does that ring any bell with you. . They don't need excuses to kill people when they are just gun ho to kill the enemy. Its not that hard to believe. BUt I too will wait for an investigation.

And again, you don't see any difference between an incident in Vietnam and a raid conducted by US Special Forces?
 

RyrineaHaruno

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Even if they mistook the kids for enemies, why would they execute them once they were handcuffed?



And again, you don't see any difference between an incident in Vietnam and a raid conducted by US Special Forces?

RightNYC, I do see the difference. However, I used that as an Example of how they don't need a reason for doing something.


The best thing, I could figure is that some crazy asses were in their group. It has happened before in Nam. I just wanted to point out that it does tend to happen...
 
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Degreez

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All of it. It simply doesn't make sense that US troops would conduct a raid, detain a group of children, handcuff them, and execute them. Why on earth would they do that? What would they have to gain?

Since the US and NATO both vehemently deny this and the only source for the claim are some Afghan officials, I think I'll wait before demanding the extradition of US troops to be hung as war criminals.

Lots of things don't make sense, but evidence points to the contrary on this one.

- Dead bodies with handcuffs on them
- All from the same family (terrorist cells very rarely have more than 3-4 members of the same family in them), except for one boy (the 12 year old shepherd).

Also, I suggest reading about NATO's initial responses to these allegations. Apparently they have changed there stance four times since responding to the incident.
 

RyrineaHaruno

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Lots of things don't make sense, but evidence points to the contrary on this one.

- Dead bodies with handcuffs on them
- All from the same family (terrorist cells very rarely have more than 3-4 members of the same family in them), except for one boy (the 12 year old shepherd).

Also, I suggest reading about NATO's initial responses to these allegations. Apparently they have changed there stance four times since responding to the incident.

Can you give me a link for the changed stances? ^^.
 
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Apocalypse

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It's a common PR tactic for terrorists.
They have probably had them in the terrorist cell's hideout just in case they would be attacked in an air strike, so that the US would later on be blamed with "murdering innocent children".

Every person should do the thinking for his own and ask himself if the US would have anything to gain for murdering civilians, and if a whole group of American soldiers could go on together and actually kill innocent people for no gain at all.

And as a side note, terrorists recruit kids into their ranks, and this is not something new.
 

Degreez

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Every person should do the thinking for his own and ask himself if the US would have anything to gain for murdering civilians, and if a whole group of American soldiers could go on together and actually kill innocent people for no gain at all.

No one in this thread has made the suggestion that these particular killings were deliberate and on purpose. This may have easily been a case of mistaken identity, or something else that we are unaware of.

And apparently you have not even read the article completely, or you would never have used the words "American soldiers" when referencing the "non-military Americans" involved in this incident.
 

Apocalypse

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No one in this thread has made the suggestion that these particular killings were deliberate and on purpose. This may have easily been a case of mistaken identity, or something else that we are unaware of.
The US is quite certain that it was a bomb-making terrorist cell.
And apparently you have not even read the article completely, or you would never have used the words "American soldiers" when referencing the "non-military Americans" involved in this incident.
I'm sorry, the article that I've read was the OP article:

Hamid Karzai demands US hand over gunmen who killed children - Times Online

Could you please point me out to where that was said, so I could correct myself?
 

RightinNYC

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Lots of things don't make sense, but evidence points to the contrary on this one.

- Dead bodies with handcuffs on them
- All from the same family (terrorist cells very rarely have more than 3-4 members of the same family in them), except for one boy (the 12 year old shepherd).

Also, I suggest reading about NATO's initial responses to these allegations. Apparently they have changed there stance four times since responding to the incident.

Rather than place my faith in articles from antiwar.com, I think I'll wait for a more reliable source on this one.
 

Tashah

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31 December 2009 - As the United Nations investigates a joint raid by Afghan and international forces in which 10 people – mostly students – were killed, the world body’s top envoy to Afghanistan today appealed to all groups, both government and insurgent, to step up efforts to distinguish between civilians and combatants.
Source: United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan

Ah. This was apparently a joint raid with Afghan forces. I didn't see this aspect mentioned before. It could help explain the inexplicable.

I just don't see well trained NATO forces executing unarmed children.
 

Red_Dave

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Source: United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan

Ah. This was apparently a joint raid with Afghan forces. I didn't see this aspect mentioned before. It could help explain the inexplicable.

I just don't see well trained NATO forces executing unarmed children.

Well like I say its happened before. There was a kind of logic behind what William Calley did in that he believed pretty much everyone in the village supported the Viet-Kong (perhaps correctly) therefore the obvious thing to do is to kill all the villagers, no brainier. Perhaps something similar happened here.
 
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donsutherland1

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IMO, one should avoid a rush to judgment. A careful examination of what happened would be helpful. But one should not automatically assume that NATO troops deliberately executed children. If, however, credible evidence is found that the allegations have validity, then those responsible, Afghans or NATO troops, should be held accountable. Right now, a careful examination has not been conducted. Intent and circumstances will be crucial to determining what happened. Errors, of course, are not the same thing as willful acts.
 

Vader

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I'd say we should be asking ourselves why kill children in cold blood. This is murder in cold blood even when these soldiers had the children handcuffed with no resistance they proceeded to shoot at them.

I do not believe there is sufficient evidence on which to base such a claim.
 
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