Guns must be protected at all costs- why?

[US&THEM]

From your Osceola County, FL link:



Maybe setting a higher (than $5K) bail amount would be wise. Perhaps tossing in immediate termination of employment would help more than a ‘red flag’ spank to take away any gun(s) he was known to have.

Who investigates and is liable if the threats were not made etc? God forbid a person’s gun rights are infringed upon.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Any is fine.

Both are potentially hazardous. Inherently.

So you probably don't care if the Iranians get their hands on nukes. Because it's not the tools, it's the people that misuse them. Nukes don't kill people. People kill people. If you keep them from getting nukes, they will probably figure out a way to do the same thing with knives, right?

When everyone else has figure out how to properly regulate something and you haven't, it is a one for one comparison. You're the only one who isn't doing it right.

So why should guns be different? Guns can still be as big a part of American life as cars.

Respectfully, you’re arguing from an uninformed and emotion driven perspective.

No productive debate can be had here.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why? The 2A is hopelessly obsolete- at least the way it's written. It has to do with 18th century technology.



No it's not. It's based on false information.

The Truth About Mental Health and Gun Violence

The Truth About Mental Health and Gun Violence

namica.org

Hmm… how does the following conflict with what I said?

While the relationship between mental illness and gun violence is very low, we need reasonable options. This includes making it possible for law enforcement to act on credible community and family concerns in circumstances where people are at high-risk.

 

[ttwtt78640]

How’s any of this ^ relevant to the fact that FL’s red flag law likely saved lives in this case?

Keeping dangerous alleged felons locked up, rather than simply temporarily disarmed, is even more likely to save lives.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Who investigates and is liable if the threats were not made etc? God forbid a person’s gun rights are infringed upon.

WTF? If no threats were made then what is the problem?

 

[US&THEM]

WTF? If no threats were made then what is the problem?

People make things up, especially if we follow your idea for firing persons, a co-worker lying in order to get rid of their fellow disliked employee. Think that would happen? It is not as simple as purchasing the gun/rifle.

 

[ataraxia]

Respectfully, you’re arguing from an uninformed and emotion driven perspective.

No productive debate can be had here.

You know what "uninformed and emotion driven"? Opposing any sensible regulations on this class of potentially hazardous equipment, like they do in every other developed nation on the planet, with a "you'll have to get it from my cold, dead hands".

 

[ttwtt78640]

People make things up, especially if we follow your idea for firing persons, a co-worker lying in order to get rid of their fellow disliked employee. Think that would happen? It is not as simple as purchasing the gun/rifle.

If there was no credible threat then what are you talking about?

 

[ataraxia]

Hmm… how does the following conflict with what I said?

I was getting the impression that you think mental health should be the focus of any gun control efforts. It won't work because it's such a small part of the problem.

 

[mrjurrs]

With respect:

That's the bottom line for the GOP and other gun proliferation proponents: Guns must be protected at all costs.

WHY? Why must guns be protected at all costs?

Because we lie to ourselves.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Keeping dangerous alleged felons locked up, rather than simply temporarily disarmed, is even more likely to save lives.

Completely nonsensical assertion and missing the point.

Not all (likely, not even a majority) of those whose firearms have been temporarily confiscated under states red flag laws are locked up.

The point of red flag laws isn’t locking up “potentially” dangerous people that haven’t yet committed any crimes, it’s preventing, or at least significantly limiting their ability to harm themselves and/or others.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I was getting the impression that you think mental health should be the focus of any gun control efforts. It won't work because it's such a small part of the problem.

So are “mass shootings”, yet they get loads of media attention.

 

[US&THEM]

If there was no credible threat then what are you talking about?

So, what do you do with the employee as you investigate?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

You know what "uninformed and emotion driven"? Opposing any sensible regulations on this class of potentially hazardous equipment, like they do in every other developed nation on the planet, with a "you'll have to get it from my cold, dead hands".

Incoherent babble.

 

[Antiwar]

Incoherent babble.

With respect:

I easily understood what was written.

You know what's "uninformed and emotion-driven"? Opposing any sensible regulations on this class of potentially hazardous equipment, like they do in every other developed nation on the planet, with a "you'll have to get it from my cold, dead hands."

 

[ttwtt78640]

Completely nonsensical assertion and missing the point.

Not all (likely, not even a majority) of those whose firearms have been temporarily confiscated under states red flag laws are locked up.

The point of red flag laws isn’t locking up “potentially” dangerous people that haven’t yet committed any crimes, it’s preventing, or at least significantly limiting their ability to harm themselves and/or others.

I understand the point, I just doubt that your FL janitor example would work with only a red flag penalty.

 

[ttwtt78640]

So, what do you do with the employee as you investigate?

Typically, such public (union?) employees are placed on administrative leave.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You know what "uninformed and emotion driven"? Opposing any sensible regulations on this class of potentially hazardous equipment, like they do in every other developed nation on the planet, with a "you'll have to get it from my cold, dead hands".

Hmm… are bans considered “sensible regulations”? If so then be honest and say what you really mean.

 

[US&THEM]

Typically, such public (union?) employees are placed on administrative leave.

Ok, so you think only public and/or union places of employment should do this?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Ok, so you think only public and/or union places of employment should do this?

Private employers would fire a ‘problem’ (threat making) employee.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

I understand the point, I just doubt that your FL janitor example would work with only a red flag penalty.

I provided several examples when a red flag law potentially saved lives. You still haven’t presented any valid argument against red flag laws, which are not punitive.

 

[ataraxia]

Hmm… are bans considered “sensible regulations”? If so then be honest and say what you really mean.

I think something like they have in Canada or Israel would be fine with me.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I provided several examples when a red law potentially saved lives. You still haven’t presented any valid argument against red flag laws, which are not punitive.

At best they accomplish a temporary ban on legal gun ownership, but many lack any real due process as is the case with other forms of civil asset forfeiture.

 

[JH Oldoc]

Why isn’t knife control advocated to pr

You come for my knives there's gonna be trouble, pal.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

At best they accomplish a temporary ban on legal gun ownership, but many lack any real due process as is the case with other forms of civil asset forfeiture.

Now you’re just throwing stuff at the wall.

Red flag temporary confiscations are just that, temporary.