Gun Trafficking Bill Gains More House Republican Supporters

[Catawba]

Just why would anyone do so? The form 4473 is to be filled out only by FFL dealers and used to perform a (NICS?) background check and must be filed for BATFE review.

I was responding to someone that didn't know unlicensed dealers in 40 states could sell guns w/o running a background check.

Out of 1,900,000 rejected buyers (most guilty of lying on this signed document) only about 300 were ever prosecuted, so why even bother?

Which shows what a great deterrent the background check is for criminals and crazies. Now, if we close the private sales loophole in 40 states we have an even bigger deterrent!

One must assume that each "bad guy" wanting to buy a gun will continue to do so until they are successful.

Maybe, maybe not, we will have at least made it more difficult and more expensive for criminals and crazies than simply strolling into a gun show to make a cheap purchase without a background check.

Adding more gun buying attempted "rejection slips" to the pile to be ignored by BATFE is hardly going to deter anything. Just try to get permission to run that NICS background check on your prospective gun buyer and let us know how that goes.

More "rejection slips" means it is making harder and more expensive for criminals and crazies to get guns! The overwhelming majority of the country see that as a good thing!

 

[BretJ]

Its not misleading at all! There are 40 states that still allow unlicensed dealers sell guns at gun shows.

That is why the expanded background checks are for ALL gun sales.

Everyone knows that dealers must run a NICs check at gun shows. It appears to be an attempt to make it appear more sinister than what it really is by labeling them "unlicensed" dealers. Now, I have not checked but I will when I have a chance, do the states that disallow private sales at gunshows refer to them as unlicensed dealers? Or do they simply disallow private sales by anyone but FFLs?

 

[specklebang]

While I don't claim to know anything, it just didn't seem plausible that I could go out, buy guns for other people and not be breaking the law. So, yes, smells like "feel-good" legiuslation to me. They'll probably increase the penalties so instead of 5 years, you'll get 10 years or something like that.

Personally, I don't see any restrictive legislation or confiscation coming out of this. Obama will claim victory - and all you gun owners will still have your guns. This is typical Washington knee-jery reactionism.

Sure it is. I assume that this bill is simply a shell, to be amended to include "registration" or some other gem not present in existing law.

ATF Online - Firearms - How To - Identify Prohibited Persons

18 USC § 924 - Penalties | Title 18 - Crimes and Criminal Procedure | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute

That's what I was thinking. And let's see if this actually gets to the floor for a vote or is just the "image changer" the republicans want to present to the public while still doing the same support for gun corporations.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Maybe, maybe not, we will have at least made it more difficult and more expensive for criminals and crazies than simply strolling into a gun show to make a cheap purchase without a background check.

For what few don't use the black market, you will however increase costs to all law abiding gun owners. Not that you care.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Everyone knows that dealers must run a NICs check at gun shows. It appears to be an attempt to make it appear more sinister than what it really is by labeling them "unlicensed" dealers. Now, I have not checked but I will when I have a chance, do the states that disallow private sales at gunshows refer to them as unlicensed dealers? Or do they simply disallow private sales by anyone but FFLs?

Yep. That is what happens in CA. You get to pay a $35.00 "user fee" for the privilege of complying. For a $200 gun sale that is a 17.5% "tax".

14. I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the; buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

a. For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction.

b. For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of $10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.

Frequently Asked Questions | State of California - Department of Justice - Kamala D. Harris Attorney General

 

[blaxshep]

There are no "unlicensed" FFL.

I never said there were. However, there are unlicensed people selling guns at gun shows in 40 states without background checks.

2 posts later:

Its not misleading at all! There are 40 states that still allow unlicensed dealers sell guns at gun shows.

Very next post:

I was responding to someone that didn't know unlicensed dealers in 40 states could sell guns w/o running a background check.

Come on man, seriously?

 

[Catawba]

Everyone knows that dealers must run a NICs check at gun shows. It appears to be an attempt to make it appear more sinister than what it really is by labeling them "unlicensed" dealers. Now, I have not checked but I will when I have a chance, do the states that disallow private sales at gunshows refer to them as unlicensed dealers? Or do they simply disallow private sales by anyone but FFLs?

"only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. "

Gun Show Loophole - Coalition to Stop Gun Violence

 

[Catawba]

For what few don't use the black market, you will however increase costs to all law abiding gun owners. Not that you care.

Many of the guns in the black market come from the gun shows in 40 states where a background check is not required by unlicensed sellers. Do I care that those who trade in guns will have pay a bit more, not at all. I place the right to life one hell of a lot higher than I place someones' profits from the gun trade.

 

[Catawba]

There are no "unlicensed" FFL.



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Come on man, seriously?

You cannot distinguish between licensed and unlicensed? Seriously?

 

[CanadaJohn]

You tell me, what law currently stops straw purchases?

Trafficking, by its very definition is an illegal act. Use of the word "trafficking" in connection with the sale of anything indicates the sale is conducted illegally. The fact that gun control advocates are high-fiving on bipartisan support for a law prohibiting an illegal action is laughable.

 

[Catawba]

Trafficking, by its very definition is an illegal act. Use of the word "trafficking" in connection with the sale of anything indicates the sale is conducted illegally. The fact that gun control advocates are high-fiving on bipartisan support for a law prohibiting an illegal action is laughable.

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

 

[CanadaJohn]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

You're very welcome - thanks for posting the thread and encouraging discussion/debate and welcoming the sharing of opinions.

 

[Catawba]

You're very welcome - thanks for posting the thread and encouraging discussion/debate and welcoming the sharing of opinions.

You are very welcome!

 

[Thrilla]

You're very welcome - thanks for posting the thread and encouraging discussion/debate and welcoming the sharing of opinions.

just a heads up.. when Cat say " thanks for your opinion".. he is simply dismissing anything you had to say.

 

[CanadaJohn]

just a heads up.. when Cat say " thanks for your opinion".. he is simply dismissing anything you had to say.

Oh, I'm well aware of his intent - being Canadian, we pride ourselves in being polite, especially when dealing with those less intellectually advantaged as we are.

 

[Linc]

jcj--Why do the preponderance of Police favor whatever the NRA Vociferously fights against ?? or vice-versa
Yet you ( not quite ) righties are always there to snuggle up to our law enforcers come election time.

Oh, I'm well aware of his intent - being Canadian, we pride ourselves in being polite, especially when dealing with those less intellectually advantaged as we are.

 

[Thrilla]

Oh, I'm well aware of his intent - being Canadian, we pride ourselves in being polite, especially when dealing with those less intellectually advantaged as we are.

well played sir,... well played.:lol:

 

[CanadaJohn]

jcj--Why do the preponderance of Police favor whatever the NRA Vociferously fights against ?? or vice-versa
Yet you ( not quite ) righties are always there to snuggle up to our law enforcers come election time.

Law enforcement will and is always supportive of any action that will take guns off the streets and away from anyone who is not in law enforcement. It's a matter of self-preservation and making their jobs easier.

Conservatives will and are always supportive of those charged with carrying out the enforcement of laws that protect citizens from those who abuse and disrespect the person and/or property of those citizens.

The two positions aren't always in agreement but there is no doubt that both positions are widely held within the two groups.

You could ask the question in the reverse by saying why do liberals support police in their calls for more gun control but then frequently clash with police during marches and protests when police ask them to act in a certain way or not in other ways and in any number of other ways complain about or try to stop police from exercising their duties.

 

[sangha]

Your statement is a bit misleading. In many states, private sales are not allowed at gun shows. You are insinuating that actual dealers are not running background checks for sales conducted at gun shows. ATF and state investigators attend these shows just looking for these instances. As far as I know, they have never caught a licensed dealer circumventing the NICs check at a gun show. There are no unlicensed dealers at gun shows...you must mean private sales? They are no more a dealer as someone who sells their car to someone else is a car dealer.

As a side note, I have been to esatate sales in which the entire collection of firearms was auctioned off. No 4473s there either. Maybe you need to discuss the estate sales "loophole" too.....

I'd say "poorly worded", not "misleading"

In many states, private sales are allowed at gun shows, and I think Catawba meant that guns can be sold without a form being filed or a background check, which is the important point and not whether nor the person selling the weapon (to someone who is prohibited from buying a weapon) is a dealer (licensed or unlicensed) or not.

To clarify, the problem is that something like 40% of all gun sales are completed without a background check, and this means that criminals and the mentally ill, as well as terrorists, have an easy way to acquire firearms. Furthermore, in some areas a huge majority of the murders are committed using weapons that were sold without a background check.

 

[BretJ]

well played sir,... well played.:lol:

Kind of like when a southerner uses the phrase, "Well bless your heart"..:mrgreen:

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

40 states don't require unlicensed dealers at gun shows to have gun purchasers fill out form 4473!

Being an "unlicensed dealer" is against the law.

 

[CanadaJohn]

Kind of like when a southerner uses the phrase, "Well bless your heart"..:mrgreen:

Well, aren't you precious!

 

[sangha]

There are no "unlicensed" FFL.



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Come on man, seriously?

"dealer" does not mean "FFL". It means "seller"

Drug "dealers" have no license either. "Dealer" is a word that is commonly used to refer to someone who sells something for profit (ex car dealer, drug dealer, arms dealer, etc)

 

[CanadaJohn]

jcj--Why do the preponderance of Police favor whatever the NRA Vociferously fights against ?? or vice-versa
Yet you ( not quite ) righties are always there to snuggle up to our law enforcers come election time.

BTW - since you used "jcj" - are you also a refugee from Politico?

 

[Thrilla]

jcj--Why do the preponderance of Police favor whatever the NRA Vociferously fights against ?? or vice-versa
Yet you ( not quite ) righties are always there to snuggle up to our law enforcers come election time.

why do you think cops , in general, support gun control?

might it have something to do with them being able to have an advantage in an armed conflict?...hmmmm?

I don't really care what cops think personally, they are a protected class of citizen... their RTKBA are not in jeopardy.