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Gun Trafficking Bill Gains More House Republican Supporters

Catawba

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WASHINGTON -- "A bill to make firearms trafficking a federal crime gained more House Republican support on Wednesday, a sign that perhaps some kind of gun control legislation could actually move in the House.
The Gun Trafficking Prevention Act of 2013 was already a bipartisan bill when it was introduced Tuesday. It had two Democratic and two Republican cosponsors. The measure would add a federal statute to give law enforcement the ability to prosecute gun traffickers and crack down on "straw purchasers," or people who sell guns to those who otherwise aren't allowed to buy them.
But by Wednesday, it had another six cosponsors, three of whom are Republicans: Reps. Peter King (N.Y.), Michael Fitzpatrick (Penn.) and Michael Grimm (N.Y.). The additional Democrats who signed on are Reps. John Conyers (Mich.), Danny Davis (Ill.) and Ron Barber (Ariz.).
"I have long supported efforts to crack down on illegal gun trafficking," King said in a statement. "I am proud to be a part of a bipartisan group of members offering a solution to this problem.”
"Straw purchases are simply another vehicle through which prohibited persons can obtain weapons," Grimm said in a statement. "As a former law enforcement agent, I support strengthening the tools available to combat these transfers, so that we can make our communities safer by keeping weapons out of the hands of criminals and those who wish to do us harm."
Fitzpatrick said he is "proud" to add his name to the bill, which he said would go a long way to helping law enforcement and prosecutors "put those skirting our gun laws behind bars."
It is worth noting that Conyers is the ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee, which has jurisdiction over gun legislation. A committee spokeswoman did not respond to a request for comment on whether the committee expects to hold a hearing on the gun trafficking bill, or other gun proposals."

Gun Trafficking Bill Gains More House Republican Supporters
 

specklebang

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You mean that gun trafficking is legal now? Say it isn't so.
 

Catawba

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specklebang

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Uh, I wasn't challenging you I was just expressing surprise that nobody has noticed this all these years.


You tell me, what law currently stops straw purchases?
 

Spartacus FPV

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You tell me, what law currently stops straw purchases?

Lying on the 4473 form is a felony, Gun Control Act of 1968
---------------------------------------------------------
In response to your OP: So does this mean Obama or Holder will be investigated and punished if found responsible for trafficking in a rather Fast and Furious manner?
 

Catawba

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Lying on the 4473 form is a felony, Gun Control Act of 1968
---------------------------------------------------------


40 states don't require unlicensed dealers at gun shows to have gun purchasers fill out form 4473!
 

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40 states don't require unlicensed dealers at gun shows to have gun purchasers fill out form 4473!

Because there's no such thing as an "unlicensed dealer." But by the way. Just as an "example". See below.

61-7-10. Display of deadly weapons for sale or hire; sale to prohibited persons; penalties.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a felony, and, upon conviction thereof, ...61-7-10. — Display of deadly weapons for sale or hire; sale to prohibited persons; penalties. - West Virginia 61-7-10. — Display of deadly weapons for sale or hire; sale to prohibited persons; penalties. - West Virginia Code : (http://law.justia.com/westvirginia/codes/61/wvc61-7-10.html)]
This MAY or MAY NOT vary greatly between the states, but I'm fairly certain that in any state, if you knowingly sell a firearm to a person who by law is unable to legally obtain a firearm from a FFL dealer, you are prosecuted as an accessory to any crime they commit with that firearm etc.

Either way, the legislation doesn't bother me. But I hope you realize that it's still going to require proof that the private seller be proven to KNOW the person is unable to own firearms. Or that the sale itself actually took place for that matter.
 

CalGun

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I just think they need to make a provision in the law to prosecute law enforcement officers and government officials that promote straw purchases - especially for illegal export to Mexico or other nations - not that anyone would do that for political purposes or anything.
 

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WASHINGTON -- "A bill to make firearms trafficking a federal crime gained more House Republican support on Wednesday, a sign that perhaps some kind of gun control legislation could actually move in the House.
The Gun Trafficking Prevention Act of 2013 was already a bipartisan bill when it was introduced Tuesday. It had two Democratic and two Republican cosponsors. The measure would add a federal statute to give law enforcement the ability to prosecute gun traffickers and crack down on "straw purchasers," or people who sell guns to those who otherwise aren't allowed to buy them.
But by Wednesday, it had another six cosponsors, three of whom are Republicans: Reps. Peter King (N.Y.), Michael Fitzpatrick (Penn.) and Michael Grimm (N.Y.). The additional Democrats who signed on are Reps. John Conyers (Mich.), Danny Davis (Ill.) and Ron Barber (Ariz.).
"I have long supported efforts to crack down on illegal gun trafficking," King said in a statement. "I am proud to be a part of a bipartisan group of members offering a solution to this problem.”
"Straw purchases are simply another vehicle through which prohibited persons can obtain weapons," Grimm said in a statement. "As a former law enforcement agent, I support strengthening the tools available to combat these transfers, so that we can make our communities safer by keeping weapons out of the hands of criminals and those who wish to do us harm."
Fitzpatrick said he is "proud" to add his name to the bill, which he said would go a long way to helping law enforcement and prosecutors "put those skirting our gun laws behind bars."
It is worth noting that Conyers is the ranking member on the House Judiciary Committee, which has jurisdiction over gun legislation. A committee spokeswoman did not respond to a request for comment on whether the committee expects to hold a hearing on the gun trafficking bill, or other gun proposals."

Gun Trafficking Bill Gains More House Republican Supporters

You think this is a defeat for the Republicans, and it's the ONLY reason you posted it.
 

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You mean that gun trafficking is legal now? Say it isn't so.

That's what I was thinking. And let's see if this actually gets to the floor for a vote or is just the "image changer" the republicans want to present to the public while still doing the same support for gun corporations.
 

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If they enact this legislation then how will they funnel guns into Mexico to "track cartel activity"?
 

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If they enact this legislation then how will they funnel guns into Mexico to "track cartel activity"?

Ironic that the largest gun trafficking organization in the world wants to cut down on it's competition.
 

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Ironic that the largest gun trafficking organization in the world wants to cut down on it's competition.

Hey it's business.
 

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Ironic that the largest gun trafficking organization in the world wants to cut down on it's competition.

Corrupt governments HATE competition.
 

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You tell me, what law currently stops straw purchases?

I don't have problem one with it. But bill proposed won't stop it either. No law can stop criminal straw purchases. Just makes it a federal crime and allows states to access federal resourcer. It may reduce it if it is enforced. If it is enforced as strictly as current federal/state laws, I don't think it will make a difference.
 

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40 states don't require unlicensed dealers at gun shows to have gun purchasers fill out form 4473!

Your statement is a bit misleading. In many states, private sales are not allowed at gun shows. You are insinuating that actual dealers are not running background checks for sales conducted at gun shows. ATF and state investigators attend these shows just looking for these instances. As far as I know, they have never caught a licensed dealer circumventing the NICs check at a gun show. There are no unlicensed dealers at gun shows...you must mean private sales? They are no more a dealer as someone who sells their car to someone else is a car dealer.

As a side note, I have been to esatate sales in which the entire collection of firearms was auctioned off. No 4473s there either. Maybe you need to discuss the estate sales "loophole" too.....
 

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Your statement is a bit misleading. In many states, private sales are not allowed at gun shows. You are insinuating that actual dealers are not running background checks for sales conducted at gun shows. ATF and state investigators attend these shows just looking for these instances. As far as I know, they have never caught a licensed dealer circumventing the NICs check at a gun show. There are no unlicensed dealers at gun shows...you must mean private sales? They are no more a dealer as someone who sells their car to someone else is a car dealer.

As a side note, I have been to esatate sales in which the entire collection of firearms was auctioned off. No 4473s there either. Maybe you need to discuss the estate sales "loophole" too.....

Without deception and intellectual dishonesty there would be nothing to debate.
 

ttwtt78640

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40 states don't require unlicensed dealers at gun shows to have gun purchasers fill out form 4473!

Just why would anyone do so? The form 4473 is to be filled out only by FFL dealers and used to perform a (NICS?) background check and must be filed for BATFE review. Out of 1,900,000 rejected buyers (most guilty of lying on this signed document) only about 300 were ever prosecuted, so why even bother? One must assume that each "bad guy" wanting to buy a gun will continue to do so until they are successful. Adding more gun buying attempted "rejection slips" to the pile to be ignored by BATFE is hardly going to deter anything. Just try to get permission to run that NICS background check on your prospective gun buyer and let us know how that goes. ;)
 

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Because there's no such thing as an "unlicensed dealer." But by the way. Just as an "example". See below.


This MAY or MAY NOT vary greatly between the states, but I'm fairly certain that in any state, if you knowingly sell a firearm to a person who by law is unable to legally obtain a firearm from a FFL dealer, you are prosecuted as an accessory to any crime they commit with that firearm etc.

Either way, the legislation doesn't bother me. But I hope you realize that it's still going to require proof that the private seller be proven to KNOW the person is unable to own firearms. Or that the sale itself actually took place for that matter.


Not knowingly selling a firearm to a criminal or crazy is not the same thing as a background check.
 

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The worst gun trafficking offenders are Barack Obama and Eric Holder.
 

Catawba

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There are no "unlicensed" FFLs...

I never said there were. However, there are unlicensed people selling guns at gun shows in 40 states without background checks.
 

Catawba

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I don't have problem one with it. But bill proposed won't stop it either. No law can stop criminal straw purchases. Just makes it a federal crime and allows states to access federal resourcer. It may reduce it if it is enforced. If it is enforced as strictly as current federal/state laws, I don't think it will make a difference.

Reducing it is all anyone expects. And this is just one of the methods to be used to reduce gun violence. Expanded background checks for all gun sales will have a big effect.
 

Catawba

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Your statement is a bit misleading. In many states, private sales are not allowed at gun shows.

Its not misleading at all! There are 40 states that still allow unlicensed dealers sell guns at gun shows.


As a side note, I have been to esatate sales in which the entire collection of firearms was auctioned off. No 4473s there either. Maybe you need to discuss the estate sales "loophole" too.....

That is why the expanded background checks are for ALL gun sales.
 
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