Gun Sales Will Go Up Again

[TurtleDude]

Ah. So instead of making ANY effort to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them - and we already know that the shooter in Orlando should never have been allowed to legally buy guns (except for the efforts of the gun-rights-loving Right which ensured that he DID have such access) - we should just encourage easy access to guns all the time, for all the people, including for those who are mentally ill, or who have been convicted of violent crimes, or who have documented links to terrorism?

stop the fibbing. there are plenty of laws that severely punish the misuse of firearms including what we call the death sentence for those who murder others. . The murderer apparently was a LICENSED SECURITY GUARD. others have noted that he had apparently BEAT HIS WIFE among other things but that was NEVER REPORTED to the authorities.

you seem to fail to understand that if there are laws that disqualify people from owning guns, that those laws DO NOT WORK if a person who should have been DQd is not because he was never reported

its like saying someone who is drunk kills others on the road but no one reported him driving erratically for HOURS before he ran into say a bunch of kids in a school crossing and no cop saw him weaving before he ran into the children and then claiming we need more laws against alcohol

 

[TheHammer]

Yes, that is my position.

And I think its funny that you think that mass murders are "probable" whereas "drunken gun fights" are just possible.

I see it that way because the evidence is on my side. There are States that allow guns in bars and nobody here has posted any evidence that there are any drunken shoot outs happening, seems your fear[ is unwarranted and likely even hysterically silly, and the fact that mass murders in soft targets are surely “probable” since we’re experiencing them regularly these days.

Especially so given the overwhelming body of evidence tying alcohol consumption to aggressive behavior, violence, and crime.

I’ll wait for you then to present the “overwhelming evidence” that in States that allow carry in bars are having regularly, or at all “aggressive drunken shoot outs.” I won’t hold my breath!

You don't have to take my word for it either.

The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, the National Partnership on Alcohol Misuse and Crime, the Bureau of Justice Statistics, and many, many universities, think tanks, and not for profit organizations all across this great country of ours have published study after study dealing with the prevalence of the involvement of alcohol in violent crime.

By some accounts, up to 86% of homicide offenders had been drinking at, or shortly prior to their offenses.

Please post the % of such that are drunken shoot outs in bars where the State allows guns.

If you allow people to carry guns in places where alcohol is served they'll commit violent crimes with guns at about the same rate that they commit violent crimes with guns elsewhere when alcohol is involved.

Some States already do allow guns in places where alcohol is being consumed. Please post the “violent crime” thereof.

It is not a mere "possibility" that you will see gun fights in bars, it is an absolute certainty.



Because you're ignorant of the facts.

Some States already do allow guns in places where alcohol is being consumed. Please post the “violent crime” thereof.

Educate yourself and, if you're a rational, logical, thinking human being you'll have no choice but to change your opinion.

I’ll wait for you to educate me. So far I’ve learned you have no evidence to support your hysterical silly opinions.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

stop the fibbing. there are plenty of laws that severely punish the misuse of firearms including what we call the death sentence for those who murder others. . The murderer apparently was a LICENSED SECURITY GUARD. others have noted that he had apparently BEAT HIS WIFE among other things but that was NEVER REPORTED to the authorities.

you seem to fail to understand that if there are laws that disqualify people from owning guns, that those laws DO NOT WORK if a person who should have been DQd is not because he was never reported

its like saying someone who is drunk kills others on the road but no one reported him driving erratically for HOURS before he ran into say a bunch of kids in a school crossing and no cop saw him weaving before he ran into the children and then claiming we need more laws against alcohol

I guess you missed the part where he was investigated three times by the FBI for ties to ISIS, and so was on the no-fly list. So yeah, just like Obama said a couple weeks back, thanks to the Right, the very same people who are put on the no-fly list for ties to terrorism are still allowed to legally buy guns.

And tragically, this shows the truth in my signature line below.

 

[TurtleDude]

I guess you missed the part where he was investigated three times by the FBI for ties to ISIS, and so was on the no-fly list. So yeah, just like Obama said a couple weeks back, thanks to the Right, the very same people who are put on the no-fly list for ties to terrorism are still allowed to legally buy guns.

And tragically, this shows the truth in my signature line below.

tell me Glen how being on the no-fly list is consistent with stripping someone of their constitutional rights

it isn't. Did you know the late Senator Ted Kennedy was on the no fly list?

And your signature line is a complete lie and we all know it. You are a rapid hater of the NRA because the NRA opposes the people you want elected to office. That is what motivates your dishonest attack on the NRA, so stop pretending its about some altruistic concern about public safety

 

[TheHammer]

It's not the gun, it's the nut behind them. They are an unknown and they are carrying something that can easily kill people. The majority of gun owners are good upstanding people, but if I don't know em, I ain't gonna trust them or their judgement.

Maniacs can carry suicide vest, knives and explosives too. It's a dangerous world! The issue is how to deal with not the guns and other inanimate objects, but how to deal with a dangerous world and its maniacs.

 

[TheHammer]

I'm guessing you aren't black or else you wouldn't make such a statement. What evidence do you have to back your opinion?

What evidence do you have he's not black?

 

[devildavid]

what basis do I have-hours and hours and hours studying the roots of gun control in the 1960s and studying Nixon's "southern strategy" of attacking the Democrat party by appealing to white southern fears of black street crime that was going through the roof in the 1960s. Just as many native and legal immigrants of hispanic origins see claims about cracking down in illegal immigrants as anti-latino-many blacks in the 60s saw whites demanding severe responses to "street crime" as anti black.

Now it's blacks in the 60's? What about today's blacks? Either way, I don't buy it. Blacks do not see street crime as part of their identity. And the comparison to illegal immigration is a poor one. Illegal immigration is a crime of a different type. Just being an illegal immigrant does not mean you are a danger to someone. The illegal immigrants being defended are those who are actually productive members of society, not those who commit crimes after illegally immigrating.

 

[devildavid]

What evidence do you have he's not black?

None, but if he is he can certainly tell me. And he can tell me if he sees street crime as part of his black identity.

 

[TheHammer]

Ah. So instead of making ANY effort to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them - and we already know that the shooter in Orlando should never have been allowed to legally buy guns (except for the efforts of the gun-rights-loving Right which ensured that he DID have such access) - we should just encourage easy access to guns all the time, for all the people, including for those who are mentally ill, or who have been convicted of violent crimes, or who have documented links to terrorism?

Actually, in my opinion the reason that the Orlando shooter had guns was because of the politically correct influence of the left discouraged people who knew him from reporting him to authorities. Oh! Wait! There’s breaking news now that the FBI was tipped about this guy twice and cleared him as being any threat. I guess you’ll blame that on the gun rights folks too, huh?

 

[TheHammer]

I guess you missed the part where he was investigated three times by the FBI for ties to ISIS, and so was on the no-fly list. So yeah, just like Obama said a couple weeks back, thanks to the Right, the very same people who are put on the no-fly list for ties to terrorism are still allowed to legally buy guns.

And tragically, this shows the truth in my signature line below.

If gun laws worked, (and they don't because criminals and maniacs don't obey laws), and there's upwards of a billion guns in circulation on earth, what will you argue would have prevented the Orlando shooter from getting illegal guns?

Guns aren't the problem and gun laws don't work! The solution is an armed population willing to be individually willing to take the responsibility to defend themselves, because the cops get there "post" tragedy and government is force by definition and inherently predisposed to limit individual rights.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Actually, in my opinion the reason that the Orlando shooter had guns was because of the politically correct influence of the left discouraged people who knew him from reporting him to authorities. Oh! Wait! There’s breaking news now that the FBI was tipped about this guy twice and cleared him as being any threat. I guess you’ll blame that on the gun rights folks too, huh?

If he was cleared of being considered a threat, why was he put on the no-fly list? And WHY are those who are on the no-fly list still allowed to legally buy firearms?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

If gun laws worked, (and they don't because criminals and maniacs don't obey laws), and there's upwards of a billion guns in circulation on earth, what will you argue would have prevented the Orlando shooter from getting illegal guns?

Guns aren't the problem and gun laws don't work! The solution is an armed population willing to be individually willing to take the responsibility to defend themselves, because the cops get there "post" tragedy and government is force by definition and inherently predisposed to limit individual rights.

The bolded section is the silliest argument I've ever heard: "bad guys will still do it even if it's illegal, so why make it illegal to begin with?" That's like saying there's no reason to have laws against bank robberies since criminals will still rob banks even if it's illegal.

My reply is, why the heck do we need to make it easy for them to purchase firearms? If they have to go buy the firearms illegally, at least that way they're facing the very real risk of ATF and local law enforcement stings. But if y'all have your way, criminals have free rein to legally purchase whatever's in the gun store.

And you can claim all day long that guns aren't the problem and that gun laws don't work...but America's homicide rate is the very highest of all first-world nations.

Here's one question for you, guy - would you agree that if you make something easier to do, more people will do it, even if it's wrong? Of course you would. Having easy access to firearms will make it easier for bad guys to get guns, and will make it easier for them to commit violent felonies...and so more of them do it. That, sir, is REALITY. You can hide behind the 2A all you want, but as long as you make it easy for the mentally ill, for violent ex-cons, and for those with ties to terrorism (like the shooter in Orlando) to have access to firearms, more of them WILL commit violent crimes. Period, end of story. The only real choice you have is whether you want to continue to allow them to have easy and legal access to firearms.

 

[TheHammer]

None, but if he is he can certainly tell me. And he can tell me if he sees street crime as part of his black identity.

Democrats/the left are the ones that see street crime as part of the black identity that's why they want to make guns illegal. They don't trust law-abiding blacks with guns. The left think the only people that should have guns is the body guards of leftist politicians and the Secret Service that take Obama's daughters to school. But they will never agree for the average citizen's children to be protected in school by law-abiding teachers and security folks with guns. Leftist intellect, (the lack thereof) is racist, mindless insanity!

 

[TheHammer]

If he was cleared of being considered a threat, why was he put on the no-fly list? And WHY are those who are on the no-fly list still allowed to legally buy firearms?

Oh yeah! "The No Fly List" Another BIG government fantasy! You tell me how 80% of the TSA inspectors guns got past the TSA searches. The No Fly List is like the government's gun laws, it doesn't work. You should be indicting the FBI and the TSA and listen more to the NRA.

 

[Bootlace]

Well, I think in most states that allow concealed carry it is still illegal to carry in bars. I am all for concealed carry but I am also not sure having a bunch of people carrying while under the influence is the best thing, though it is certainly hard to imagine it making things worse in this specific case.

I have a license to carry concealed in CA and NV. Zero tolerance with alcohol, license is void as soon as you have a drink. As it should be.

 

[TheHammer]

The bolded section is the silliest argument I've ever heard: "bad guys will still do it even if it's illegal, so why make it illegal to begin with?"

But that’s not even my argument. Laws are for prosecuting crimes. Laws don’t prevent any criminal, maniac or terrorist from committing a crime. Laws are for punishment when criminals are captured. That’s my argument.

Now have the gonads to answer the question. I’ll say it again for you.

Since there are upwards of a billion guns in circulation on earth, What gun law would have prevented the Orlando shooter from getting the guns he had or anybody else for that matter?

That's like saying there's no reason to have laws against bank robberies since criminals will still rob banks even if it's illegal.

That sentence is like totally insane leftist clueless-ness. Laws are contrived for punishments. No law ever prevented any criminal, maniac or terrorist from committing a crime. That’s the pure truth that’s far, far above the mangled bassackwards thinking of the left.

My reply is, why the heck do we need to make it easy for them to purchase firearms?

Because there’s no way you can make it hard. Face reality!

If they have to go buy the firearms illegally, at least that way they're facing the very real risk of ATF and local law enforcement stings.

Then prosecute them! That’s all laws are good for they don’t “PREVENT” anything that criminals, maniacs and terrorist want to do.

But if y'all have your way, criminals have free rein to legally purchase whatever's in the gun store.

Then sure as hell you can provide us with a gun law that will prevent or make it harder for criminals, maniacs and terrorist to get guns, right? Check with Hillary and Barrack and get back to us with it. Just remember there’s upwards of a billion guns in circulation on earth.

And you can claim all day long that guns aren't the problem and that gun laws don't work...but America's homicide rate is the very highest of all first-world nations.

America also has the most aggressive Drug War on earth and ghettoes/leftist created slave quarters, where the illegal drug business, (invented by government prohibition of some drugs), has created a street gangbanger’s war over drug turf. It ain’t the guns friend! It’s the Drug War!

Here's one question for you, guy - would you agree that if you make something easier to do, more people will do it, even if it's wrong?

You mean like “Motor Voter?” Oh Wait! All that did is make it easier for the leftist’s illegal immigrants to vote for the Democrats, huh? Another BIG government scam!

Of course you would. Having easy access to firearms will make it easier for bad guys to get guns, and will make it easier for them to commit violent felonies...and so more of them do it. That, sir, is REALITY. You can hide behind the 2A all you want, but as long as you make it easy for the mentally ill, for violent ex-cons, and for those with ties to terrorism (like the shooter in Orlando) to have access to firearms, more of them WILL commit violent crimes. Period, end of story. The only real choice you have is whether you want to continue to allow them to have easy and legal access to firearms.

The actual “REALITY” is gun laws and any laws don’t work to prevent anything the criminals, maniacs and terrorist want to do.

Look at Paris. Look at French gun laws. Look at the mass murders. It’s no different there than here as far as terrorism is concerned. Proof positive that laws are useless to “PREVENT” anything that terrorist want to do.

Join the NRA! Defend yourself! Bring back American Rugged Individualism! Stand up to BIG government gun grabbing tyranny! Defend the 2nd Amendment with your life! It’s what protects all of your rights and privileges.

 

[jonny5]

There are an estimated nearly a billion guns in circulation on planet earth and more being manufactured every day.


Just exactly how our gun-nut President and Hillary Clinton think they can keep guns out of the hands of criminals, Islamic radicals and the insane who don’t give a rat’s ass about laws, by passing more laws is beyond the comprehension of any sane folks. Never you mind that though we have a President and his favored Presidential candidate hell bent on making it more difficult for law-abiding folk to own the right to defend themselves.


Is the gay club in Florida a “gun free zone?” Nobody has reported on that yet. If some of the patrons of the club had been armed according to Florida’s “carry laws,” how would a single shooter ever murder 49 people and injure more than 50 more without being taken out by a citizen with his own gun?


I submit, that open gays who like to promote gay pride and frequent gay clubs are this morning standing in line at the gun shops intending to purchase and who would blame them?

Im highly considered finally doing it, after wanting one for a long time. Mainly to make sure I get one while Im allowed, and to spite the anti-gun crowd. Bonus, its fun to go to the range.

 

[Winchester]

Maniacs can carry suicide vest, knives and explosives too. It's a dangerous world! The issue is how to deal with not the guns and other inanimate objects, but how to deal with a dangerous world and its maniacs.

Guns aren't inanimate when carried by an individual. When one doesn't know the individual it's only normal to worry about their motives, training and mental health.

 

[TheHammer]

Guns aren't inanimate when carried by an individual. When one doesn't know the individual it's only normal to worry about their motives, training and mental health.

Guns are always "inanimate!" They have no conscience. They have no soul. They have no anger. They have no joy. They're a "tool." Those who use tools are responsible for how the tool is used.

 

[Winchester]

Guns are always "inanimate!" They have no conscience. They have no soul. They have no anger. They have no joy. They're a "tool." Those who use tools are responsible for how the tool is used.

Well if you really want to play the literal game, go for it. The person is the unknown and hence the cause of nervousness. Being any angry person and/or mental person can easily purchase or acquire a gun I don't think those fears are unfounded.

 

[Socrates1]

Alcohal and firearms don't mix.

Nor do Muslims and gays , women , Christians or any civilized human .

 

[Tigerace117]

Nor do Muslims and gays , women , Christians or any civilized human .

Nor do you and anyone who has a brain, apparently.

 

[Socrates1]

Nor do you and anyone who has a brain, apparently.

Really ! Try using your once .

 

[Tigerace117]

Really ! Try using your once .

I have. It reminded me exactly why people are so dumb

 

[Socrates1]

I have. It reminded me exactly why people are so dumb

It must be your neighborhood . Trailer parks attract them .