• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gun safety instructor accidently shoots student in school.

notquiteright said:
Now your just making crap up. Who said anything about banning anything in the OP? Please quote it.

Now we can discuss many things about this, like more involved testing and renewal of 'instructor' permits with ongoing education and refresher classes.

Teachers of third grade math have to refresh and continue their education, LE has to as well. Shirley you can see a benefit to having Instructors in the use of deadly force taking refresher courses to stay sharp when pointing firearms around while teaching 'safety'? And test every few years to make sure their edge isn't rusting.

There was an AP from Altus AFB who brought two buddies that all were going to a long range tactical course in Little Rock to our range to get a bit of practice in before attending the Gubmint school. The leader of the pack took out course 3 years ago. He practiced a lot but without refreshers his 'remembery' of the procedures, techniques and dialogue morphed into something fairly unrecognizable as anything we teach.

There, we have a topic to debate... :peace
Click to expand...

I have no problem with refresher courses.....and please don't call me Shirley....
 
LaMidRighter said:
The article said he was presenting it and "dry firing". Can't believe he didn't check the chamber, at least in that scenario. It's not unheard of to have a negligent discharge once, but the more chance of injury the more important to go back to the fundamental rules.
Click to expand...

Seriously, though. Checking to see if a revolver is loaded doesn't even take a second. You either swing the cylinder open, or just look down the side to see if there's brass. This is beyond incompetent, and the guy needs to lose his certification for this.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Richocets can be worse honestly, they aren't "on line" like a laterally fired bullet would be. I knew a few officers who lost colleagues(due to termination, not death) because they screwed around at the range instead of carefully placing shots and created richochets off concrete at the range. Those officers ended up being banned from the range and thus couldn't be expected to qualify, that pretty much ended their careers right there. This instructor though should be forced to retire, he broke every single rule in the book, including "don't point at what you don't want to shoot", thankfully he didn't draw lateral on the kid, and even more lucky is that the richocet didn't hit in a worse area than the arm.
Click to expand...

Richocheted projectiles can be a bit more vicious than a standard round nose or even HP...
 
BretJ said:
Richocheted projectiles can be a bit more vicious than a standard round nose or even HP...
Click to expand...
Easily. You already have a change in the projectile's characteristics and they are damn near impossible to follow, could hit anyone and it's already tumbling.
 
Surtr said:
Seriously, though. Checking to see if a revolver is loaded doesn't even take a second. You either swing the cylinder open, or just look down the side to see if there's brass. This is beyond incompetent, and the guy needs to lose his certification for this.
Click to expand...
Yep. No excuses for that one.
 
Tucker Case said:
My old man had a booming voice, too, but he usually just gave us a look and we fell in line instantly.

Having him actually lose his cool enough to hit me actually taught me the lesson even better than a lecture or a look would have, though. He never lost his cool with us. Seeing my dad that freaked out put the fear of god into me more than anything else and since then I've had a healthy respect for the danger that guns pose if treated improperly.
Click to expand...

I was at a range last year and had the pleasure of seeing a guy there with his girlfriend. It was hot and she dressed appropriately for the weather.....anyway, both were wearing appropriate PPE and he gave her a pretty good course of instruction on the use of the Glock, sight picture etc. She fired one round and the brass went straight down her cleavage. As she jumped around, she swept the line with the pistol. He grabbed her arm pretty forcefully, pointed the weapon down range, took the pistol and dressed her down pretty thoroughly. It could have been done a bit more tactfully but what an awesome display of balls and bravery....I often wonder how things went later that night.
 
Surtr said:
That's what I'm saying. If there's any doubt whether it's loaded or not, you just look at the side. If you see brass rims, don't pull the trigger.
Click to expand...

My dad would smack me if I ever took a gun from him and did not check to see if it was loaded. Even if I saw him unload it seconds earlier....
 
BretJ said:
I was at a range last year and had the pleasure of seeing a guy there with his girlfriend. It was hot and she dressed appropriately for the weather.....anyway, both were wearing appropriate PPE and he gave her a pretty good course of instruction on the use of the Glock, sight picture etc. She fired one round and the brass went straight down her cleavage. As she jumped around, she swept the line with the pistol. He grabbed her arm pretty forcefully, pointed the weapon down range, took the pistol and dressed her down pretty thoroughly. It could have been done a bit more tactfully but what an awesome display of balls and bravery....I often wonder how things went later that night.
Click to expand...

Holy ****, that's crazy dangerous.
 
Tucker Case said:
Holy ****, that's crazy dangerous.
Click to expand...
People have gotten banned from firing ranges for stuff like that in about every place I know and rightfully so. I'm very pro second, but I also have the integrity to admit that unsafe behavior is unexcusable.
 
LaMidRighter said:
People have gotten banned from firing ranges for stuff like that in about every place I know and rightfully so. I'm very pro second, but I also have the integrity to admit that unsafe behavior is unexcusable.
Click to expand...

For yelling at a hot girlfriend in a tank top??
 
BretJ said:
Given the meaning of that particular verse, it is not really relative to this thread.
Click to expand...
Oh but it is. So is play with fire and you get burned. Guns are for killing people, not for playing John Wayne at the Mall with.
 
BretJ said:
For yelling at a hot girlfriend in a tank top??
Click to expand...
No, people sweeping the range, muzzling, or improper bearing. There was one incident where a friend almost got shot in the foot, I wasn't there but other buddies were telling me about it. Basically a jackass was at the range without a holster, his idea of handling when off the line was to tuck the pistol under his arm, pointed backwards, with finger on trigger. The idiot leaned in to watch his buddy shoot, the motion caused him to squeeze the trigger and he shot into the floor about 1.5" from my friend's foot. The end result, half the range drew on him and demanded he dechamber and unload the weapon, and the owner blasted him verbally before kicking him out for life.

Yelling at the girl in the tank top might have been a bit "excessive" but I can understand given the danger of the situation.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Yep. No excuses for that one.
Click to expand...

The guy is in his 70's, so his mind probably isn't what it used to be. That said, he really doesn't need to be an instructor anymore.

BretJ said:
My dad would smack me if I ever took a gun from him and did not check to see if it was loaded. Even if I saw him unload it seconds earlier....
Click to expand...

Negligent discharges scare the crap out of me, and I am absolutely determined to never have one. The two weapons that scare me ****less are the 30-06 and the 7.62. If one of those goes off and hits someone, they won't be the same again if they survive it.
 
As a firearms instructor I can say with absolute certainty that the instructor in question made several inexcusable errors. My rifle demonstrators don't even have an action. They are bare stocks with mounted lasers. For pistol instruction I use a Glock pistol with the slide removed. This story deserves exposure in order to help prevent it from ever happening again. The instructor's methods were unsafe and he should be removed as an instructor. The chances of one of my students getting shot with one of my demonstrators? Absolutely zero, unless you consider a laser point "shot". They don't fire.
 
Surtr said:
The guy is in his 70's, so his mind probably isn't what it used to be. That said, he really doesn't need to be an instructor anymore.



Negligent discharges scare the crap out of me, and I am absolutely determined to never have one. The two weapons that scare me ****less are the 30-06 and the 7.62. If one of those goes off and hits someone, they won't be the same again if they survive it.
Click to expand...

I have refused a shooter with an SKS access to my firing line due to the high likelyhood of the rifle "slam firing". If you've ever seen one run away you would understand. It happened at a shoot I was on on the line at instead of instructing, the guy was kneeling when it happened and he dropped it while it was firing without his finger on the trigger.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Are you kidding me? How do you teach gun safety without using a gun? I will admit that you don't need a loaded gun in the classroom, and even at the range one should not point it in an unsafe direction, but you do realize that this was a gun course - do you not? ;)
Click to expand...

very aware of it but this was more of a response to the idea of guns in schools and around the general public. It was just a few months ago that dp members were advocating armed guards in schools and arming teachers and kids, when I pointed out that accidents happen around guns I was shot down. " trained professionals dont mis-fire" etc. This incident just confirms to me that guns should not be around kids, students and should not be messed around with in generalwith the public.
 
LaMidRighter said:
No, people sweeping the range, muzzling, or improper bearing. There was one incident where a friend almost got shot in the foot, I wasn't there but other buddies were telling me about it. Basically a jackass was at the range without a holster, his idea of handling when off the line was to tuck the pistol under his arm, pointed backwards, with finger on trigger. The idiot leaned in to watch his buddy shoot, the motion caused him to squeeze the trigger and he shot into the floor about 1.5" from my friend's foot. The end result, half the range drew on him and demanded he dechamber and unload the weapon, and the owner blasted him verbally before kicking him out for life.

Yelling at the girl in the tank top might have been a bit "excessive" but I can understand given the danger of the situation.
Click to expand...

Good stuff, and it makes sense.
 
Higgins86 said:
very aware of it but this was more of a response to the idea of guns in schools and around the general public. It was just a few months ago that dp members were advocating armed guards in schools and arming teachers and kids, when I pointed out that accidents happen around guns I was shot down. " trained professionals dont mis-fire" etc. This incident just confirms to me that guns should not be around kids, students and should not be messed around with in generalwith the public.
Click to expand...

"I see", said the blind carpenter, as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Thus we should ban cars since they have a far higher accidental death and injury rate than guns. ;)
 
Higgins86 said:
People die in hospitals and at the hands of doctors because that is the nature of the job however kids should not be getting shot at school. Stupid to comapre the 2 and scary that you would have that thought process. Kids getting shot in the US has become that casual?
Click to expand...

Kids get hurt in school in Shop and at Vocational schools using power tools also... rather more frequently than they get shot to be sure.


**** happens. Such is life.
 
TiredOfLife said:
Oh but it is. So is play with fire and you get burned. Guns are for killing people, not for playing John Wayne at the Mall with.
Click to expand...

Nope. The verse refers to those that would take up a sword for personal revenge or evil. Has nothing to do with carrying a weapon or using it for self defense.
I am confused though....how is carrying a concealed weapon at a mall playing John Wayne? Mixed up metaphor?
 
Higgins86 said:
very aware of it but this was more of a response to the idea of guns in schools and around the general public. It was just a few months ago that dp members were advocating armed guards in schools and arming teachers and kids, when I pointed out that accidents happen around guns I was shot down. " trained professionals dont mis-fire" etc. This incident just confirms to me that guns should not be around kids, students and should not be messed around with in generalwith the public.
Click to expand...

Nor should alcohol yet I am sure you have no problem with that. If we banned consumption of alcohol in public, I am sure accidental deaths and injuries would drop to levels less than firearms.....
 
BretJ said:
Nope. The verse refers to those that would take up a sword for personal revenge or evil. Has nothing to do with carrying a weapon or using it for self defense.
I am confused though....how is carrying a concealed weapon at a mall playing John Wayne? Mixed up metaphor?
Click to expand...
It refers to those who use a weapon to defend themselves instead of trusting in god. As for playing John Wayne, that is going to war. Playing John Wayne at a mall is carry a weapon around town when you don't need to. Guns only have one purpose and the advice from Jesus is the same, it's your call but like judgement, what you do so will be done to you. He who lives by.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom