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Gun Control vs Firearm Owners

Crimefree

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[h=2]Gun Control vs Firearm Owners[/h][h=2]Common ground.[/h]I know many realise that to succeed in this fight one must find the common ground between opposing sides so that real discussion can take place.

Many think that common ground is acceptance of some gun control so that gun control is appeased and will leave us alone. Appeasement is exactly what gun control wants and it means firearm owners will now accept gun control and promote that accepted gun control.

It is a huge psychological victory for gun control and government that literally spells the end of firearm ownership when all opposition accepts gun control. That end is ensured when any opposition is only interested in cooperation and collaboration rather than objection.

It has taken me many years of careful thought and listening to firearm owners to see that cooperation in ones downfall is a fatal mistake.

The all to pervasive argument of it is impossible, accept, we can still own guns is entrenched by thinking those who do manage are somehow better than others. That only responsible people can own guns, others do not deserve to.

Quite obviously appeasement is not common ground and is a fatal mistake. The true common ground is far more subtle and requires a quantum leap in thinking which we are all capable of. Our personal safety is very very important to us which is why we wish to own firearms for our own protection. Yet we face an opposition that is equally concerned about their own safety which they believe can be obtained by disarming everyone.

Our common ground is personal safety, not guns, not appeasement, not common sense and not trying to force one to accept the other by waging a war of words over guns and firearm ownership. It literally puts firearm owners strategy on its head as counter productive at worst and ineffective at best.

It is not a war over guns it is a question of presenting the truth in the least offensive way so each side can unite in the pursuit of our safety.

Gun control vs Firearm Owners | News24
 

Jerry

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Gun Control vs Firearm Owners

Common ground.
The only common ground is this: if you don't want a gun, don't own one. That's it, that's the only thing.

There should be no gun control. Nothing. Just show an ID proving you're an adult American Citizen and that's it. No NICS. No background. No permits. No ATF. No Gun Control Act. No Houghs Amendment. No Federal Firearms Licenses. No registration, don't even bother stamping a serial number of it. No kind of firearm banned; yes that means an 18 y/o should enjoy full access to the exact same assault rifles the US Army has.

Commit a felony and be shot in the act by the victim. Simple. No need to worry about criminals, gun control wasn't stopping them anyway. Just kill them, and buff the law to protect the victim.
 

TurtleDude

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The only common ground is this: if you don't want a gun, don't own one. That's it, that's the only thing.

There should be no gun control. Nothing. Just show an ID proving you're an adult American Citizen and that's it. No NICS. No background. No permits. No ATF. No Gun Control Act. No Houghs Amendment. No Federal Firearms Licenses. No registration, don't even bother stamping a serial number of it. No kind of firearm banned; yes that means an 18 y/o should enjoy full access to the exact same assault rifles the US Army has.

Commit a felony and be shot in the act by the victim. Simple. No need to worry about criminals, gun control wasn't stopping them anyway. Just kill them, and buff the law to protect the victim.
as I once noted, the real compromise should be this

leave peoples' gun rights intact and they won't shoot you!
 

Crimefree

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The only common ground is this: if you don't want a gun, don't own one. That's it, that's the only thing.

There should be no gun control. Nothing. Just show an ID proving you're an adult American Citizen and that's it. No NICS. No background. No permits. No ATF. No Gun Control Act. No Houghs Amendment. No Federal Firearms Licenses. No registration, don't even bother stamping a serial number of it. No kind of firearm banned; yes that means an 18 y/o should enjoy full access to the exact same assault rifles the US Army has.

Commit a felony and be shot in the act by the victim. Simple. No need to worry about criminals, gun control wasn't stopping them anyway. Just kill them, and buff the law to protect the victim.
How well has that attitude worked so far? Which gun control supporter do you think that will change the mind of?

But I do see the problem, there is no concept of why we lose this fight and what it will take to win. Not even the NRA can get that right. California is a good example of how useless the NRA actually is.

We need a change of attitude and direction to win and repeating the same old mistakes over and over again will not make them work next time
 

Crimefree

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as I once noted, the real compromise should be this

leave peoples' gun rights intact and they won't shoot you!
Yeah right you go on protecting the guns and lets see what that gets us. Oh! wait we know that result already. No country in the world has less restrictive gun control laws than it did 30 years ago.

A compromise is not required and is the worst thing we can do. That really is saying accept gun control and fight some of it. I have no idea of who came up with that brain fart but it kinda neglects the fact nobody fights what they accept. AND once you accept gun control all you can now do is ague over how much to accept.

Does that describe the current situation accurately when the NRA is advocating and promoting compliance and acceptance of gun control? And nobody is OBJECTING and DEMONSTRATING their displeasure because they could not care less and they accept gun control. Who here does not accept gun control and wants government to control some people and not let them have guns?

Maybe we need to rethink that then and actually win for a change.

California alone with 52 new bills waiting to be passed. Objection will be non-existent. Not visible, heard or seen and nobody will know becasue firearm organisations are sitting on their bum as they always do or saving the guns. WTF happened to our rights that they got replaced by guns? Franklin must be turning over in his grave.

Anyone know of a war over guns? Anyone not know of a war over rights?
 

Jerry

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How well has that attitude worked so far? Which gun control supporter do you think that will change the mind of?

But I do see the problem, there is no concept of why we lose this fight and what it will take to win. Not even the NRA can get that right. California is a good example of how useless the NRA actually is.

We need a change of attitude and direction to win and repeating the same old mistakes over and over again will not make them work next time
The old mistakes include tolorating and talking to gun controlers. Time for them to stfu.
 

Wiseone

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The only common ground is this: if you don't want a gun, don't own one. That's it, that's the only thing.

There should be no gun control. Nothing. Just show an ID proving you're an adult American Citizen and that's it. No NICS. No background. No permits. No ATF. No Gun Control Act. No Houghs Amendment. No Federal Firearms Licenses. No registration, don't even bother stamping a serial number of it. No kind of firearm banned; yes that means an 18 y/o should enjoy full access to the exact same assault rifles the US Army has.

Commit a felony and be shot in the act by the victim. Simple. No need to worry about criminals, gun control wasn't stopping them anyway. Just kill them, and buff the law to protect the victim.
What if the victim is shot first? That's a big assumption to make that the victim will always kill the felon.
 

Wiseone

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as I once noted, the real compromise should be this

leave peoples' gun rights intact and they won't shoot you!
And I'm tired of hearing about how people are going to use violence to keep their guns, seriously stop it, no you aren't going to throw your life away to keep your gun, what good is your gun and what good are you if you're dead? And talking about how if you don't get your way you'll start killing people makes you sound more like a terrorist than a responsible gun owner.
 

TurtleDude

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And I'm tired of hearing about how people are going to use violence to keep their guns, seriously stop it, no you aren't going to throw your life away to keep your gun, what good is your gun and what good are you if you're dead? And talking about how if you don't get your way you'll start killing people makes you sound more like a terrorist than a responsible gun owner.
the sheep mentality probably agrees with you and that is why the incremental approach to gun banning is so popular
 

Wiseone

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the sheep mentality probably agrees with you and that is why the incremental approach to gun banning is so popular
Then go start killing people, do it, seriously stop talking and start acting, you want unlimited access to fully automatic weapons but can't get it? Than start shooting those you feel responsible. If not then shut up about it.
 

TurtleDude

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Then go start killing people, do it, seriously stop talking and start acting, you want unlimited access to fully automatic weapons but can't get it? Than start shooting those you feel responsible. If not then shut up about it.
Its fun watching you support gun control and pretend you do not. Deep down your posts indicate that you aren't comfortable with freedom or honest people being armed. But you try so hard to pretend that isn't your view
 

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Its fun watching you support gun control and pretend you do not. Deep down your posts indicate that you aren't comfortable with freedom or honest people being armed. But you try so hard to pretend that isn't your view
I'm not comfortable with people being armed who say they'll kill other people if they don't get their way, of course I know most of it is all hot air because 99% of gun owners even the most hardcore like yourself aren't that stupid to actually commit acts of terrorism and politically motivated murder. And lets be clear, killing people for politics is a good starting definition of terrorism, Ronald Reagan had it right when he said one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter but regardless of how you view yourself you'd still be killing people over politics. And even the threat of doing so doesn't make you sound like a "reasonable gun owner," because once you're open to the idea of killing people to keep your guns than why not kill people over other political issues?

Anyway, yes I believe in some gun control, I've never denied that, but I don't believe in total gun control and I don't support 99% of the more recent changes to gun laws in this country like magazine laws about capacity, waiting periods, "assault weapons" and all the bizzaro laws that go along with them. I do however support taking a much closer look at laws regarding pistols and I'm open to the idea of making pistols harder to get because unlike assault rifles, which are often used in the more public and especially horrifying gun crimes like Sandy Hook, pistols are used in the vast majority of murders as well as other crimes where a gun is involved although not always used, for example armed robbery is done with pistols the vast majority of the time although they are often never fired during the crime itself.

So yes from your perspective I'm a gun control freak, but really if you look at the larger picture and see where I stand in comparison to many others I've got more in common with you than many other gun control advocates, except of course unlike you I'm not going to kill anyone over my opinion but then again neither are you because all that talk is just a load of bs.
 

LaMidRighter

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And I'm tired of hearing about .......
We don't care what you are tired of hearing about, we have rights and you don't agree with them and we don't care what you want or don't want.
 

Wiseone

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We don't care what you are tired of hearing about, we have rights and you don't agree with them and we don't care what you want or don't want.
Are you going to threaten to start killing people too? ****ing do it then, go to prison or get shot yourself or shut the hell up. All this **** about using violence for your rights is bull**** unless you're going to back it up and no one here is.
 

CRUE CAB

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The only common ground is this: if you don't want a gun, don't own one. That's it, that's the only thing.

There should be no gun control. Nothing. Just show an ID proving you're an adult American Citizen and that's it. No NICS. No background. No permits. No ATF. No Gun Control Act. No Houghs Amendment. No Federal Firearms Licenses. No registration, don't even bother stamping a serial number of it. No kind of firearm banned; yes that means an 18 y/o should enjoy full access to the exact same assault rifles the US Army has.

Commit a felony and be shot in the act by the victim. Simple. No need to worry about criminals, gun control wasn't stopping them anyway. Just kill them, and buff the law to protect the victim.
I agree, if criminals can and will get guns.
Let society take care of them. One at a time.
 

CRUE CAB

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Are you going to threaten to start killing people too? ****ing do it then, go to prison or get shot yourself or shut the hell up. All this **** about using violence for your rights is bull**** unless you're going to back it up and no one here is.
Really? Wont back it up? Keep thinking that.
Guess what, you only have the rights you have due to violence and people with guns that backed it up.
 

CRUE CAB

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I'm not comfortable with people being armed who say they'll kill other people if they don't get their way, of course I know most of it is all hot air because 99% of gun owners even the most hardcore like yourself aren't that stupid to actually commit acts of terrorism and politically motivated murder. And lets be clear, killing people for politics is a good starting definition of terrorism, Ronald Reagan had it right when he said one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter but regardless of how you view yourself you'd still be killing people over politics. And even the threat of doing so doesn't make you sound like a "reasonable gun owner," because once you're open to the idea of killing people to keep your guns than why not kill people over other political issues?

Anyway, yes I believe in some gun control, I've never denied that, but I don't believe in total gun control and I don't support 99% of the more recent changes to gun laws in this country like magazine laws about capacity, waiting periods, "assault weapons" and all the bizzaro laws that go along with them. I do however support taking a much closer look at laws regarding pistols and I'm open to the idea of making pistols harder to get because unlike assault rifles, which are often used in the more public and especially horrifying gun crimes like Sandy Hook, pistols are used in the vast majority of murders as well as other crimes where a gun is involved although not always used, for example armed robbery is done with pistols the vast majority of the time although they are often never fired during the crime itself.

So yes from your perspective I'm a gun control freak, but really if you look at the larger picture and see where I stand in comparison to many others I've got more in common with you than many other gun control advocates, except of course unlike you I'm not going to kill anyone over my opinion but then again neither are you because all that talk is just a load of bs.
Ah, the old "gun owners are sissies" folly.
Wanna find out for real?
 

LaMidRighter

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Really? Wont back it up? Keep thinking that.
Guess what, you only have the rights you have due to violence and people with guns that backed it up.
King George III did not just say "okay, you want to start your own country, I'm cool with that, we're out".
 

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Really? Wont back it up? Keep thinking that.
Guess what, you only have the rights you have due to violence and people with guns that backed it up.
Ah, the old "gun owners are sissies" folly.
Wanna find out for real?
Ya I do want to find out for real, that's what I've been saying. I want one of you all who keep beating the drum of violence or revolution to actually do something, don't talk but actually ****ing do something. If you want to do it against me, fine, by all means come all the way to Afghanistan and try to kill one of these "people with guns that back it up" because I'm one of them and try and kill me for what I've said on an internet message board.

Seriously its all talk talk talk.

So far I've got Turtle, Jerry, CRUE CAB, and Laright all talking about how they're serious about killing people over their guns, yet I've not seen a single action taken to such an affect, so I have to conclude that its all hot air.
 

LaMidRighter

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Ya I do want to find out for real, that's what I've been saying. I want one of you all who keep beating the drum of violence or revolution to actually do something, don't talk but actually ****ing do something. If you want to do it against me, fine, by all means come all the way to Afghanistan and try to kill one of these "people with guns that back it up" because I'm one of them and try and kill me for what I've said on an internet message board.

Seriously its all talk talk talk.

So far I've got Turtle, Jerry, CRUE CAB, and Laright all talking about how they're serious about killing people over their guns, yet I've not seen a single action taken to such an affect, so I have to conclude that its all hot air.
I have never said I "want to kill" anyone, don't ever put those words into my mouth again. Anyone who cares to keep an open mind and actually READS what I post can see my biggest concern IS U.S. politicians pushing the citizenry to armed rebellion, I have stated a few times I couldn't care less if a statist politician does get popped, but that is NOT ADVOCATING for it, it is ambivalence to it. I have also said that I will defend myself against attackers, if the government "should" ever get to that point I will defend myself, period. Not my fault, or anyone else's that you either can't or won't get that.
 

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Ya I do want to find out for real, that's what I've been saying. I want one of you all who keep beating the drum of violence or revolution to actually do something, don't talk but actually ****ing do something. If you want to do it against me, fine, by all means come all the way to Afghanistan and try to kill one of these "people with guns that back it up" because I'm one of them and try and kill me for what I've said on an internet message board.

Seriously its all talk talk talk.

So far I've got Turtle, Jerry, CRUE CAB, and Laright all talking about how they're serious about killing people over their guns, yet I've not seen a single action taken to such an affect, so I have to conclude that its all hot air.
I live in Florida, no one is coming for my guns. We have good gun laws in our state.
That said, the day that somone does come, they will face a battle. And I am serious about that. Sorry if I cant PROVE THAT to you yet. I guess you will just have to stay tuned.
 

CRUE CAB

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I have never said I "want to kill" anyone, don't ever put those words into my mouth again. Anyone who cares to keep an open mind and actually READS what I post can see my biggest concern IS U.S. politicians pushing the citizenry to armed rebellion, I have stated a few times I couldn't care less if a statist politician does get popped, but that is NOT ADVOCATING for it, it is ambivalence to it. I have also said that I will defend myself against attackers, if the government "should" ever get to that point I will defend myself, period. Not my fault, or anyone else's that you either can't or won't get that.
I dont think any one has said anything about wanting to kill anyone, thats just another one of the anti's ploys. Make us look crazy or violent.
Helps them sleep at night with their crazy thoughts.
 

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I have never said I "want to kill" anyone, don't ever put those words into my mouth again. Anyone who cares to keep an open mind and actually READS what I post can see my biggest concern IS U.S. politicians pushing the citizenry to armed rebellion, I have stated a few times I couldn't care less if a statist politician does get popped, but that is NOT ADVOCATING for it, it is ambivalence to it. I have also said that I will defend myself against attackers, if the government "should" ever get to that point I will defend myself, period. Not my fault, or anyone else's that you either can't or won't get that.
I live in Florida, no one is coming for my guns. We have good gun laws in our state.
That said, the day that somone does come, they will face a battle. And I am serious about that. Sorry if I cant PROVE THAT to you yet. I guess you will just have to stay tuned.
I dont think any one has said anything about wanting to kill anyone, thats just another one of the anti's ploys. Make us look crazy or violent.
Helps them sleep at night with their crazy thoughts.
I never you wanted to kill anyone, I said you were "serious" about it. Are you not serious about it? That post you quoted was directed at CRUE CAB where he asked me if I wanted to "find out for real" so I said if he wanted to do it against me, as in if he wanted to "demonstrate what was for real" to me he was welcome to it.

Anyway, no none of you despite all your talk is going to become a terrorist over your idea of 2A rights nor are you going to sacrifice your life for the inanimate object on your hip. Talk is easy, action is not. I don't see any of you killing anyone for any of the gun laws that exist now, nor for not being able to own fully automatic weapons, so do I think you'll die for your 9mm glock? No.
 

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There are two types of people who are for gun control. The first is the kind that lacks the mental ability to take care of themselves and would prefer someone else take care of them. Their view is so narrow that they assume everyone else feels the same way, or should. They project their ineptitude on the rest of us and want us disarmed because they lack the ability to be a responsible gun owner.

The second kind are the control hounds who would like to see everyone disarmed (except for themselves of course) in order to make the population easier to control. The second type uses the first type to forward their agenda.

Thing is in order to do any of this, changes have to be made, which of course takes time, effort and resources. So there has to be a reason to expend that kind of energy. But nothing that has been proposed would actually reduce gun crime. Nothing. Expending that kind of energy for something that will not achieve the stated goal (especially when gun crime has been dropping anyway) means only one thing: the stated goal is not really the goal. And since I won't do business with people who I know are lying to me, the only answer for gun control is NO. I'm not wasting any time verbally sparring with a liar. We are not the ones who need to wake up, it is the helpless idiots who side with the control seekers who need to assess their environment. They are being used for their lack of information and confidence.
 

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I never you wanted to kill anyone, I said you were "serious" about it. Are you not serious about it? That post you quoted was directed at CRUE CAB where he asked me if I wanted to "find out for real" so I said if he wanted to do it against me, as in if he wanted to "demonstrate what was for real" to me he was welcome to it.

Anyway, no none of you despite all your talk is going to become a terrorist over your idea of 2A rights nor are you going to sacrifice your life for the inanimate object on your hip. Talk is easy, action is not. I don't see any of you killing anyone for any of the gun laws that exist now, nor for not being able to own fully automatic weapons, so do I think you'll die for your 9mm glock? No.
How much more serious do you want me to be?
And do what against you? You find what I said "threatening".
I guess it was pretty threatening to the timid as them boys in Boston were kicking tea barrells into the river that day to.
I bet the timid ran and hid when Paul Revere rode through town.
And your types will hide in the future when or if our rights are ever fought for again.
And I think you are getting the words terrorist and patriot mixed up.
 
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