Gun control advocates ---- how do we fix Chicago?

[Linc]

A large percentage of them were born into families that were dealing a generation ago.
Apparently, Americans have forgotten all about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome and Crack babies, so yes some were born that way.
separate but equal schools. I don't think so.
Crappy schools, dangerous neighborhoods--but heh, they should should SCORE as high as those from pricey suburbs.

What the hell? Do you think they're born that way? Of course not. It's a result of their environment and POVERTY. :roll:

 

[opendebate]

Since poverty and despair tend to be the root causes of violence I suggest that we just give everyone in Chicago a couple of million bucks and hire a bunch of the unemployed to hang out there hugging people, giving kind words of encouragement and apologizing for our failure as a society to properly embrace them as fellow human beings.

I knew you'd come around.

 

[spud_meister]

What's broken? As per 100,000 population, Chicago doesn't even make the top ten in murders. Memphis ranks up higher than Chicago.

I'd just like to point out correlation does not equal causation, gun control laws play only a minor part in murder rates and poverty levels have a far greater correlation.

 

[Lutherf]

What a cop out.

So you've got no solutions of your own, you just want to whine.

You want a real solution? OK.

1. When some 6 year old gets caught slinging sacks you send him to reform school and you put his parents in prison. While in prison his folks can pay their debt to society by working for 6 hours a day and getting educated for another 6. If they manage to show that they've learned something beneficial then their sentence gets cut back.

2. When some 15 year old gets busted robbing a convenience store he goes to jail where he works and gets schooling. If he makes his classes and grades he gets a reduced sentence.

3. You put cops on every damned corner in gang neighborhoods. If you look like you're under the age of 18 and you're running the streets after dark expect to get stopped. If you're out on the streets on a tuesday afternoon during school hours expect to get stopped.

4. Raise the standards in the schools. English is acceptable, ebonics isn't. Proficiency at math, english, science and history is mandatory. If you're proficient you can graduate if you're not you don't BUT if you're just plain incapable in required areas then you will either become proficient in some trade or you're going to be in school a long, long time.

5. Raise the standards for public assistance. If your EBT purchases consist primarily of pop-tarts and fake fruit punch you'll be afforded the options of either taking and passing a nutrition class or the card will go away and the State will pick your groceries for you.

6. If you're receiving public assistance and get convicted for ANY criminal activity you lose those benefits BUT you can earn an amount equal to those benefits through community service.

7. When your elected officials show up at your church or community event and tell you how bad your life is and how its the other guys fault tell them that you're sick and tired of that crap and that buying votes by subsidizing failure is a thing of the past in your neighborhood.

 

[Lutherf]

The solution doesn't involve either gun control or gun freedoms. It involves economic development, increasing opportunity, flooding the streets with law enforcement in the short term, getting the community involved to change the culture of gangs and drugs, etc. I've often wondered what would happen if we had a president (from either party) with the balls to visit all of these high crime areas in the country. I'm pretty sure those places would become some of the most secure areas in the world overnight for a presidential visit, and would bring the country's awareness up dramatically. Unfortunately, it's just too convenient to sweep these areas under the rug and forget about them.

Amen!!

 

[TurtleDude]

Simple, make gun ownership akin to driving. Nationally. Register all guns (or maybe just handguns) , and require any owner to have proof of registration. Make possession of an unregistered gun a crime, and toughen penalties for use of a gun in a crime.

the only people who want to register handguns are those who want to ban them.

you want people to violate that stupid proposed law so they can be arrested

and criminals cannot be compelled to register firearms

why do you gun restrictionists want to pass laws that cannot even apply to criminals?

 

[Goshin]

I am not a Chicago resident, but from what I hear from those who are, it is not a gun problem per se but a GANG problem... and a lack of cooperation with the police by residents in areas where this stuff goes on.


Got to address the right issue...

 

[TurtleDude]

I am not a Chicago resident, but from what I hear from those who are, it is not a gun problem per se but a GANG problem... and a lack of cooperation with the police by residents in areas where this stuff goes on.


Got to address the right issue...

I have thought one of the best ways to deal with that is to put some of our recent snipers back from the sand box on various rooftops with well trained police spotters. when they spot some scumbag engaged in felonious behavior, have the sniper whack them. and each week post a bulletin of those so whacked.


probably put an end to banditry in a short period of time

 

[Goshin]

I have thought one of the best ways to deal with that is to put some of our recent snipers back from the sand box on various rooftops with well trained police spotters. when they spot some scumbag engaged in felonious behavior, have the sniper whack them. and each week post a bulletin of those so whacked.


probably put an end to banditry in a short period of time

Yeah... prolly run into some due-process issues there though.

 

[Harshaw]

Yeah... prolly run into some due-process issues there though.

:shrug: We live in an era where "due process" is satisfied by the President meeting with his national security council and deciding who to drone.

 

[Goshin]

:shrug: We live in an era where "due process" is satisfied by the President meeting with his national security council and deciding who to drone.

You have a point. Technically, I suppose the Prez could declare all Chicago gangs terrorist orgs and engage in drone strikes on any confirmed gang members at will.


In theory... be a PR nightmare and I have a feeling someone would object.

 

[TurtleDude]

You have a point. Technically, I suppose the Prez could declare all Chicago gangs terrorist orgs and engage in drone strikes on any confirmed gang members at will.


In theory... be a PR nightmare and I have a feeling someone would object.

yeah you wonder how many of his inner circle would bet wiped out with such a move

 

[Goshin]

yeah you wonder how many of his inner circle would bet wiped out with such a move

ROFL :lamo


hadn't thought of it that way but you have a point

 

[Harshaw]

You have a point. Technically, I suppose the Prez could declare all Chicago gangs terrorist orgs and engage in drone strikes on any confirmed gang members at will.


In theory... be a PR nightmare and I have a feeling someone would object.

<------------------------- This one.

 

[LaMidRighter]

It seems like everyday we hear another news story about people being gunned down in Chicago. What do we do to fix it, gun control advocates?

Until the street gangs are dealt with there isn't much that can be done unfortunately. Chicago's criminals are so deeply entrenched that people who would be most useful to the Windy City's police force are scared to report the thugs, and otherwise a lot of inner city residents have a don't help the police attitude. Until people are willing to help, the situation will persist IMO.

 

[Harshaw]

Until the street gangs are dealt with there isn't much that can be done unfortunately. Chicago's criminals are so deeply entrenched that people who would be most useful to the Windy City's police force are scared to report the thugs, and otherwise a lot of inner city residents have a don't help the police attitude. Until people are willing to help, the situation will persist IMO.

You could remove the source of the gangs' power and motivation.

 

[LaMidRighter]

What's broken? As per 100,000 population, Chicago doesn't even make the top ten in murders. Memphis ranks up higher than Chicago.

I'd just like to point out correlation does not equal causation, gun control laws play only a minor part in murder rates and poverty levels have a far greater correlation.

I am not a fan of using the murder rate per 100K for one simple reason. In a city the size of Chicago, even if they have the highest total number of murders it would look better when you take into account that they have more than three times the population than many other "high rate" cities. Sure, in one respect you could say that out of that population, only x out of y actually end up murdered, but then when you consider that it comes from particular areas of the city, and took that area and compared to another high crime area in a smaller city you could massage the sample sizes indefinitely to make the rate whatever you like.
In terms of pure numbers, few of the big cities come out too well.

 

[LaMidRighter]

You could remove the source of the gangs' power and motivation.

I've been saying that for a long time, smart reforms of things that are black market items and they won't have the money to stay organized.

 

[Harshaw]

I've been saying that for a long time, smart reforms of things that are black market items and they won't have the money to stay organized.

One need only look at the 1920s.

 

[LaMidRighter]

One need only look at the 1920s.

Indeed. In fact that there was a certain tax evader who helped shape that black market culture for the Windy City.

 

[Threegoofs]

Well, it looks like some people here are definitely certain that handguns have NOTHING to do with the shootings.

And you wonder why the rest of the world ridicules America.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well, it looks like some people here are definitely certain that handguns have NOTHING to do with the shootings.

And you wonder why the rest of the world ridicules America.

and we also know that crime reduction plays almost no role in what motivates those who want to restrict the rights of honest americans though those restrictionists try to convince the weak minded that is what motivates them

You'd think someone who lives in the murder capital of the free world-a place that has banned HONEST people from owning handguns for years, would have a clue

 

[Harshaw]

Indeed. In fact that there was a certain tax evader who helped shape that black market culture for the Windy City.

Well, I find it a pretty persuasive argument that the consequences of drugs being legalized could not possibly be worse than the consequences of them being illegal.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Well, it looks like some people here are definitely certain that handguns have NOTHING to do with the shootings.

And you wonder why the rest of the world ridicules America.

Handguns have as much to do with crime as empty beer bottles have to do with stabbings.

 

[Harshaw]

And you wonder why the rest of the world ridicules America.

It makes them feel relevant.