Guaido Seeks to Cooperate with US Forces In Order to Take Power

[slick]

No, anyone who voted for Guaidó was targeted. Congrats, you managed to fail even the incredibly low expectations about basic reading comprehension anyone had for you at this point.

Forrest’s thugs went out and and murdered African Americans at any excuse or none at all. Just a few years earlier his thugs had launched a riot and murdered multiple people with impunity.

Pulaski riot - Wikipedia

Memphis riots of 1866 - Wikipedia

At to that other atrocities being carried out by your heroes thugs and it’s hardly surprising African Americans decided that they didn’t want to risk an inbred mob of liquored up two bit losers kicking in their doors.

“Friendship”

Yes, I bet the people who Forrest bought and sold like cattle just loved the experience :roll:

Listening to the pathetic stupidity of your various rants, and your routine defense of the worst regimes in human history, is always amusing, especially when I shred your arguments......as I do every time.

Forrest’s unforgettable debut on a cold winter day at Sacramento was a harbinger of ill fortune for his future Union opponents. The blacksmith’s son from Tennessee had only just begun to tap into a fervor for battle that few other men could match. The Union force was decisively routed, and the battle became known as "Forrest's First Fight" and is annually re-enacted by local residents. Despite his lack of professional military training, Forrest rode roughshod over his Union foes throughout the Civil War, and rose to the rank of lieutenant general. By then, Northern commanders such as Major General William T. Sherman remembered him simply as ‘that Devil Forrest.’
But enough about the wizard everyone knows about 'Brice’s Crossroads' history’s perfect battle.

BTW, I'm glad I reminded you that you ddidn't include our our founders in
your previous diatribe but as predictable you took the bait lambasted
the men who wrote those bold & magnificent documents, the most
progressive ever offered to the world at the time. Your fascinating take was:

"Yes, the people who spent all the time talking about how "all men are created equal" unless you have the "wrong" religion, or skin color, or come from the "wrong" part of Europe were rather amusing in their flailing about and attempts to avoid facing the blatant hypocrisy. 'So mindless'

Know this: by "all men are created equal" they spoke of equality as aspirational. All men then & now are not created equal grade schoolers learn that quickly, some are bright others are not, some are obviously more athletic than others, some are attractive while others are plain.
The new upgrade of thought provided was that all men were endowed with unalienable rights, life, liberty & persuit of happiness.
No one can literally believe Jefferson ever thought for a second "all men are created equal"

In Britain & for that matter all forward thinking Europe the three pillars of conservatism were 1) the monarchy 2) the established church
3) the aristocracy.

In a stroke of enlightened progressive genius they managed
to eliminate the first two but it did seem that the aristocracy
remained although minus the snobby titals. The extraordinary founding documents
were imitated for decades by fledgling countries in South America
although with hardly as successful implementation.

In fact in Jefferson's letters to Adams he relates just that:

In Jefferson's letters to Adams he dwells on a natural aristocracy among men.
Thomas Jefferson, on Aristocracy - letter to John Adams
Jefferson as did Adams & their peers saw themselves as the aristocratic elite to whom the new country was best entrusted.

In Jefferson's letters to Lafeyette he doubles down that not only are there superior men but there are
superior peoples ' 'The yeomanry of the US are not the canaille of Paris'

Honestly Tiger old pal, if there was a 'gong show' on any subject that you remarked about you would probably be 'gonged' early on, probably long before your 2nd post of the subject at hand.

 

[Tigerace117]

Forrest’s unforgettable debut on a cold winter day at Sacramento was a harbinger of ill fortune for his future Union opponents. The blacksmith’s son from Tennessee had only just begun to tap into a fervor for battle that few other men could match. The Union force was decisively routed, and the battle became known as "Forrest's First Fight" and is annually re-enacted by local residents. Despite his lack of professional military training, Forrest rode roughshod over his Union foes throughout the Civil War, and rose to the rank of lieutenant general. By then, Northern commanders such as Major General William T. Sherman remembered him simply as ‘that Devil Forrest.’
But enough about the wizard everyone knows about 'Brice’s Crossroads' history’s perfect battle.

BTW, I'm glad I reminded you that you ddidn't include our our founders in
your previous diatribe but as predictable you took the bait lambasted
the men who wrote those bold & magnificent documents, the most
progressive ever offered to the world at the time. Your fascinating take was:

"Yes, the people who spent all the time talking about how "all men are created equal" unless you have the "wrong" religion, or skin color, or come from the "wrong" part of Europe were rather amusing in their flailing about and attempts to avoid facing the blatant hypocrisy. 'So mindless'

Know this: by "all men are created equal" they spoke of equality as aspirational. All men then & now are not created equal grade schoolers learn that quickly, some are bright others are not, some are obviously more athletic than others, some are attractive while others are plain.
The new upgrade of thought provided was that all men were endowed with unalienable rights, life, liberty & persuit of happiness.
No one can literally believe Jefferson ever thought for a second "all men are created equal"

In Britain & for that matter all forward thinking Europe the three pillars of conservatism were 1) the monarchy 2) the established church
3) the aristocracy.

In a stroke of enlightened progressive genius they managed
to eliminate the first two but it did seem that the aristocracy
remained although minus the snobby titals. The extraordinary founding documents
were imitated for decades by fledgling countries in South America
although with hardly as successful implementation.

In fact in Jefferson's letters to Adams he relates just that:

In Jefferson's letters to Adams he dwells on a natural aristocracy among men.
Thomas Jefferson, on Aristocracy - letter to John Adams
Jefferson as did Adams & their peers saw themselves as the aristocratic elite to whom the new country was best entrusted.

In Jefferson's letters to Lafeyette he doubles down that not only are there superior men but there are
superior peoples ' 'The yeomanry of the US are not the canaille of Paris'

Honestly Tiger old pal, if there was a 'gong show' on any subject that you remarked about you would probably be 'gonged' early on, probably long before your 2nd post of the subject at hand.

And funnily enough, he didn’t even managed to delay, much less stop, the US advance and crushing of your beloved slavers. Funny how his “riding roughshod” kept on heading further south.....and further south..... and further south.....as he was unable to, you know, make any difference in the war effort whatsoever. “History’s perfect battle” had no effect whatsoever on the outcome of the war, which just goes to show how dumb you have to be to label it a “perfect battle” :lamo

Yes, i lambasted your beloved slaver heroes. That is “taking the bait” in the same way that Union Forces “took the bait” and crushed your slavers at Gettysburg and numerous other battles.

Yes, the South was very found of the British aristocracy and vice verse. Those were the folks who wanted to support your inbred heroes.

Honestly Forrest and his followers should have ended up in front of a firing squad and the world would have been much better for it.

 

[bomberfox]

How many more troops is the GOP gonna waste to appease the blood lust of goddamned chickenhawks?

 

[slick]

And funnily enough, he didn’t even managed to delay, much less stop, the US advance and crushing of your beloved slavers. Funny how his “riding roughshod” kept on heading further south.....and further south..... and further south.....as he was unable to, you know, make any difference in the war effort whatsoever. “History’s perfect battle” had no effect whatsoever on the outcome of the war, which just goes to show how dumb you have to be to label it a “perfect battle” :lamo

Yes, i lambasted your beloved slaver heroes. That is “taking the bait” in the same way that Union Forces “took the bait” and crushed your slavers at Gettysburg and numerous other battles.

Yes, the South was very found of the British aristocracy and vice verse. Those were the folks who wanted to support your inbred heroes.

Honestly Forrest and his followers should have ended up in front of a firing squad and the world would have been much better for it.

Another 'gong show' post!

Before indulging in your rather unique method of sizing up greatness maybe you should
be reminded of the praise both General Grant and General Sherman
heaped upon Forrest. Something neither was accustomed of doing! I doubt
neither Grant nor Sherman would approve of your assessment of the ‘Wizard of the Saddle'

His legacy comes down to the present through doctrine & example. His innovations & tactics
are directly reflected in current Army doctrinal publications such as Field Manual 100-5.

 

[Tigerace117]

Another 'gong show' post!

Before indulging in your rather unique method of sizing up greatness maybe you should
be reminded of the praise both General Grant and General Sherman
heaped upon Forrest. Something neither was accustomed of doing! I doubt
neither Grant nor Sherman would approve of your assessment of the ‘Wizard of the Saddle'

His legacy comes down to the present through doctrine & example. His innovations & tactics
are directly reflected in current Army doctrinal publications such as Field Manual 100-5.

Yes, plenty of Union generals heaped praise on their confederate counterparts later on in the name of “reconciliation”. It means exactly jack ****. Both were actually quite generous with the praise, so your comment, as usual, is inaccurate.

I hate to break it to you but neither Grant nor Sherman would have supported hero worshipped a domestic terrorist who committed numerous atrocities. But then again, it’s hardly surprising a slave trader would prefer having unarmed civilians hacked apart. Forrest was so much of a scumbag his own men tried to kill him. Funny how no one can say that about Grant or Sherman.

He utterly failed, and your beloved slaveocracy was crushed.

 

[Rogue Valley]

CSA General Nathan Bedford Forrest was a slave trader, a woman whipper, and a war criminal. The Fort Pillow massacre and numerous other atrocities. One of the first members of the KKK post war.

 

[slick]

CSA General Nathan Bedford Forrest was a slave trader, a woman whipper, and a war criminal. The Fort Pillow massacre and numerous other atrocities. One of the first members of the KKK post war.

A Yankee Congressional investigation found that the black soldiers trying to flee to the Union gunboats under the bluff
blundered into the two Southern companies sent to prevent a Northern landing--failing to surrender;
they made the fatal error of firing on troops protected by ravines on both sides of them. Of course they were cut to shreds...
Forrest was tried for Fort Pillow but proven Innocent.

 

[Rogue Valley]

A Yankee Congressional investigation found that the black soldiers trying to flee to the Union gunboats under the bluff
blundered into the two Southern companies sent to prevent a Northern landing--failing to surrender;
they made the fatal error of firing on troops protected by ravines on both sides of them. Of course they were cut to shreds...
Forrest was tried for Fort Pillow but proven Innocent.

Citation plz.

 

[Tigerace117]

A Yankee Congressional investigation found that the black soldiers trying to flee to the Union gunboats under the bluff
blundered into the two Southern companies sent to prevent a Northern landing--failing to surrender;
they made the fatal error of firing on troops protected by ravines on both sides of them. Of course they were cut to shreds...
Forrest was tried for Fort Pillow but proven Innocent.

In the words of Forrest's thugs.....

"The poor deluded negros would run up to our men fall on their knees and with uplifted hands scream for mercy but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. The whitte [sic] men fared but little better. The fort turned out to be a great slaughter pen. Blood, human blood stood about in pools and brains could have been gathered up in any quantity. I with several others tried to stop the butchery and at one time had partially succeeded but Gen. Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased.[23]:44

A 2002 study by Albert Castel concluded that the Union forces were indiscriminately massacred after Fort Pillow "had ceased resisting or was incapable of resistance."[24] Historian Andrew Ward in 2005 reached the conclusion that an atrocity in the modern sense occurred at Fort Pillow, including the murders of fleeing black civilians, but that the event was not premeditated nor officially sanctioned by Confederate commanders.[25]

Recent histories concur that a massacre occurred. Historian Richard Fuchs, the author of An Unerring Fire, concludes, "The affair at Fort Pillow was simply an orgy of death, a mass lynching to satisfy the basest of conduct—intentional murder—for the vilest of reasons—racism and personal enmity."[26] Ward states, "Whether the massacre was premeditated or spontaneous does not address the more fundamental question of whether a massacre took place... it certainly did, in every dictionary sense of the word."[27] John Cimprich states, "The new paradigm in social attitudes and the fuller use of available evidence has favored a massacre interpretation.... Debate over the memory of this incident formed a part of sectional and racial conflicts for many years after the war, but the reinterpretation of the event during the last thirty years offers some hope that society can move beyond past intolerance."[28]"

Battle of Fort Pillow - Wikipedia

At best, Forrest was too incompetent to control his own man and prevent an atrocity. At worst, the slave trading thug actively encouraged the atrocity and should have been shot for it.

 

[slick]

Citation plz.

Only two weeks after the battle, a U.S. Congressional inquiry could not conclusively determine exactly what happened. Both sides
failed to control the action, and only Forrest’s direct, personal intervention to stop the shooting saved many
of the Union defenders left standing on the beach. Not satisfied with the Congressional inquiry, Union General William T. Sherman
convened a not-so-impartial inquiry. He openly stated that he would try and convict General Forrest. However, Sherman’s inquiry
also ended without substantive evidence to find Forrest culpable.

http://armchairgeneral.com/nathan-bedford-forrest-and-the-battle-of-fort-pillow-

 

[Rogue Valley]

Only two weeks after the battle, a U.S. Congressional inquiry could not conclusively determine exactly what happened. Both sides
failed to control the action, and only Forrest’s direct, personal intervention to stop the shooting saved many
of the Union defenders left standing on the beach. Not satisfied with the Congressional inquiry, Union General William T. Sherman
convened a not-so-impartial inquiry. He openly stated that he would try and convict General Forrest. However, Sherman’s inquiry
also ended without substantive evidence to find Forrest culpable.

http://armchairgeneral.com/nathan-bedford-forrest-and-the-battle-of-fort-pillow-

armchairgeneral.com? Besides, your link returned a 404.

Just as well. Are you done yet hijacking this thread in the Latin America forum?

 

[slick]

armchairgeneral.com? Besides, your link returned a 404.

Just as well. Are you done yet hijacking this thread in the Latin America forum?

Just as well. Are you done yet hijacking this thread in the Latin America forum?

Tiger bought up an old argument about a tug of war we had miles ago on #60, I merely
was forced to contradict his take on things. Blame him for the hijacking not me.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Just as well. Are you done yet hijacking this thread in the Latin America forum?

Tiger bought up an old argument about a tug of war we had miles ago on #60, I merely
was forced to contradict his take on things. Blame him for the hijacking not me.

Your arguments are as misplaced as your forum location. Take it to the History forum.

 

[Evilroddy]

Who knew Juan Guaido played such an important albeit retroactive role in the ACW? I dun learned sump'in new today, Ma!

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[Fledermaus]

How's the Trump-driven coup going?

Good question.... How is it going?

 

[oneworld2]

You asked me to provide evidence of people willing to conduct violence against the Venezuelan people if they "voted the wrong way". I provided multiple examples. You circling up in the fetal position shrieking "no no no" doesn't make the facts go away.

I asked you to provide evidence for your claims that most Venezuelans never voted in the elections for fear of being murdered or put in dungeons for " voting the wrong way " and despite your hysterical claims that you have been able to back them you have ,in fact, failed the task miserably. I cited a poll taken around the time and , despite many different reasons for not taking part , the two reasons you gave never featured at all. Maybe they were scared to death that they might be thrown in a dungeon for taking part in an anonymous poll :roll:

You then cite an alleged drugs trafficking charge to one of the Maduro government ministers that , even if it turns out to be true STILL doesn't support your claims

As for the rest of your post , like virtually every post you put up here when your ridiculous and baseless claims are trashed as the junk US propaganda **** that they are , it warrants no more attention

 

[oneworld2]

Tigerrace is way out there, way, waay out there. The sportsbooks say Maduro stays & governs:

Venezuela Politics - Presidential Propositions
December 31st, 2019 at 11:59:59 pm US Eastern Time
Wed 1/1 2001 Nicolas Maduro is President on 12/31/19 -170
12:01AM 2002 Nicolas Maduro not President on 12/31/19 +130

My guess is he is young and from a military background/upbringing

 

[oneworld2]

When an elected President becomes permanently unavailable to serve prior to his inauguration,

We can stop right there because that didn't happen. Those that never bothered to contest the elections cannot just be allowed to play a card that doesn't exist

 

[oneworld2]

Very true, but Maduro though democratically elected is not the right man to lead Venezuela.
Democracy thrives best when the ethnic majority is market capable,
Venezuela is a prime example of where democracy fails. In some multi-ethnic
diverse states democracy becomes a toxic cocktail.

Whether Maduro is or isn't the right man to lead Venezuela is up to the Venezuelans to decide , not Pompeo , Pence , Trump or their ideological followers that post here

 

[Fledermaus]

Whether Maduro is or isn't the right man to lead Venezuela is up to the Venezuelans to decide , not Pompeo , Pence , Trump or their ideological followers that post here

And they decided... The National Assembly of VENEZUELA decided.

 

[oneworld2]

Maduro did something that triggered the opposition to select a new man in Guaido.

I have asked you time and again if you could figure out what it was.

You still haven't shown the you know.

So either benign or intentional ignorance...

And Cuban "medics"?

15,000 to 20,000 medics and nurses?

Hmmmm

Cubas military numbers approximately 40,000.

According to Cuba there are ZERO troops and everyone is a civilian. (Even those working with the Venezuelan military)

You like to play childish games imo , if you have something to so as to why Maduro was targeted by some Venezuelans just come out and say it

Cuban medical assistance to Venezuela , and elsewhere btw , is and has been a partnership since the Chavismo revolution. If there are military advisors there too at the behest of the government then so what ?

The claims were that Russia ( 100 troops ? ) Cuba ( a thousand troops , or even 5,000 tropps for arguments sake , and China who nobody seems to want to have a stab at the figures with do not constitute ,imo , a force that would be able to withstand a massive popular uprising against the Maduro government. So when you hear/read these fantastical claims it just smacks of junk disinformation

 

[oneworld2]

I mentioned the problems socialism is causing in Venezuela and you go on a rant against communism. Did you understand what I said?

No, you said if the majority of people in Venezuela voted for Communism ( which they didn't ) then whatever happens is their own fault. You then claimed that Americans are voting for Socialism ( which they are not ) that they too are engaging in their own " destruction "

The two points clearly show that you haven't a Scooby Doo on what people are voting for in Venezuela or the US nor the ideologies you so readily refer to. So yes , I understood what you said and told you you haven't a clue what you are talking about

 

[Fledermaus]

You like to play childish games imo , if you have something to so as to why Maduro was targeted by some Venezuelans just come out and say it

TRANSLATION: You can't figure out where you failed.

 

[marke]

No, you said if the majority of people in Venezuela voted for Communism ( which they didn't ) then whatever happens is their own fault. You then claimed that Americans are voting for Socialism ( which they are not ) that they too are engaging in their own " destruction "

The two points clearly show that you haven't a Scooby Doo on what people are voting for in Venezuela or the US nor the ideologies you so readily refer to. So yes , I understood what you said and told you you haven't a clue what you are talking about

You are right. I do not know how Venezuela turned socialist to their own destruction and do not understand why Americans support socialism seeing the damage it has done to Venezuela and other nations.

 

[Tigerace117]

My guess is he is young and from a military background/upbringing

And slick is a Neo Confederate who idolizes Nathan Bedford Forrest and thinks the problem with Venezuela is that the leadership isn't "white enough". Using him as a credible source on others is not a great idea, to put it mildly.