Green energy is great if you can afford it. (1 Viewer)

[ludin]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tex...ppy-while-sticking-its-citizens-with-the-bill

Now, however, they are on the defensive over electricity costs that have their residents paying more than $1,000 per household in higher electricity charges over the last four years.
That’s right - $1,219 per household in higher electricity costs for the 71,000 residents of Georgetown, Texas,

i know i can't afford that.

my electric bill is high enough the way that it is.

 

[Manc Skipper]

You can'r afford not to have green energy.

 

[DoLoop]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tex...ppy-while-sticking-its-citizens-with-the-bill

Now, however, they are on the defensive over electricity costs that have their residents paying more than $1,000 per household in higher electricity charges over the last four years.
That’s right - $1,219 per household in higher electricity costs for the 71,000 residents of Georgetown, Texas,

i know i can't afford that.

my electric bill is high enough the way that it is.

That's like 25 simoleons a month.

 

[ludin]

You can'r afford not to have green energy.

sure i can't afford it.

I like the lights on and the heat and the AC on in my home.
i like being able to cook food etc ...

i can't afford another 1k-2k dollars a year in electric.

glad you can.

 

[apdst]

You can'r afford not to have green energy.

I'm too busy paying taxes to pay for a solar system.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

It's like everything else. it's expensive at first and gets more cheaper as more and more people like it. The same can be said for TV when it came out, now everybody has multiple TVs. Same can be said about everything

 

[SoCal]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tex...ppy-while-sticking-its-citizens-with-the-bill

Now, however, they are on the defensive over electricity costs that have their residents paying more than $1,000 per household in higher electricity charges over the last four years.
That’s right - $1,219 per household in higher electricity costs for the 71,000 residents of Georgetown, Texas,

i know i can't afford that.

my electric bill is high enough the way that it is.

Conservatives have issues looking past the end of their noses or the next quarter.

You could start a conservative movement to bring back coal-fired generator plants. You might be able to afford that, although your grandchildren's lungs might not. But what do you care? You'll be long gone...

 

[BWG]

Are you trying to argue that FOX News is fake news?

In October, the average electricity rate in Georgetown was 11.69¢ per kWh. The average households monthly electricity usage was 1,078 kWh, making the average bill around $126.

based on EIA Data as of December, 2018

https://www.texaselectricityratings.com/electricity-rates/texas/georgetown/78626

 

[americanwoman]

I'm too busy paying taxes to pay for a solar system.

Oh, I didn't realize there was a price tag on the solar system. :2razz:

 

[adroit]

Are you trying to argue that FOX News is fake news?

Additionally, deregulated prices like in Houston look pretty similar - around 11 cents/kWh on 12 month contracts according to powertochoose.com.

 

[lwf]

Oh, I didn't realize there was a price tag on the solar system. :2razz:

It takes a lot of careful regulation to keep the solar system working.

 

[veritas1]

Green energy is mostly another scam. When you see all the liberal political and Hollywood elites flying all over the place pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the air while telling you that you need a solar powered home or have to pay exorbitant charges for inefficient "green" energy, you know it's BS. We can provide all of our energy needs for the forseeable future with oil, natural gas and nuclear power. The green energy mania is joined at the hip to the "climate change" mania, another thing that is all about politics and wealth transference. A hundred years from now, people, or at least rational ones, will be laughing their asses off at all this mindless alarmism.

 

[lwf]

Green energy is mostly another scam. When you see all the liberal political and Hollywood elites flying all over the place pumping millions of tons of CO2 into the air while telling you that you need a solar powered home or have to pay exorbitant charges for inefficient "green" energy, you know it's BS. We can provide all of our energy needs for the forseeable future with oil, natural gas and nuclear power. The green energy mania is joined at the hip to the "climate change" mania, another thing that is all about politics and wealth transference. A hundred years from now, people, or at least rational ones, will be laughing their asses off at all this mindless alarmism.

Even if it's not an immediate existential threat, why not invest in renewable energy? Isn't it better to explore renewable energy than to plan to continuously burn non-renewable resources forever?

 

[veritas1]

Even if it's not an immediate existential threat, why not invest in renewable energy? Isn't it better to explore renewable energy than to plan to continuously burn non-renewable resources forever?

I have no problem with investing in legitimate renewable energy. What I have a problem with is investing in very inefficient and expensive ideas like windmills. This is going backwards. I also reject the idea that we need to get off of oil and gas anytime soon or that this is even desirable. I also reject the moral taint which those opposed to oil and gas try to attach to the people who provide us this energy and to those who support it.

 

[MrWonka]

I know I can't afford that.

Or if you'd like a more honest explanation of things.

https://communityimpact.com/austin/...er-energy-price-drop-costs-city-6-84-million/

So basically the town signed a long term contract assuming they'd get paid a certain amount of money for every kilowatt of energy their clean energy grid generated in surplus. To keep things flat long term they agreed to buy a surplus up front expecting to sell it for a profit. Unfortunately in the short term with prices down a bit they couldn't sell their surplus for as much as they wanted to so they're in a bit of a hole. If however, those prices rebound in the future they'll be making bank.

As of right now the townspeople aren't actually paying higher bills. They're still getting cheap energy it's just that the town is running a deficit. That sucks, but if they can negotiate the rates down they should be fine, and if things pick up down the road they could still come out way ahead. Time will tell.

Furthermore, the massive move towards clean energy around the world is likely one of the bigger reasons why so many other energy sources are coming so cheap. The small sacrifices that towns like this are making are hugely beneficial to us all. Rather than attack them for doing the right thing we should be thanking them. This is why these types of decisions really need to be made at higher levels like the state and federal level to ensure that we all share the burden.

 

[ludin]

Conservatives have issues looking past the end of their noses or the next quarter.

You could start a conservative movement to bring back coal-fired generator plants. You might be able to afford that, although your grandchildren's lungs might not. But what do you care? You'll be long gone...

i grew up in a coal state and lived next to a coal power plant for years and years and years.
guess what i am healthy as a horse.

so take your appeal to emotion arguments elsewhere.

 

[Phys251]

Oh, I didn't realize there was a price tag on the solar system. :2razz:

It's whatever you need to pay off the Galactic Empire to keep the Death Star away!

 

[ludin]

Or if you'd like a more honest explanation of things.

https://communityimpact.com/austin/...er-energy-price-drop-costs-city-6-84-million/

So basically the town signed a long term contract assuming they'd get paid a certain amount of money for every kilowatt of energy their clean energy grid generated in surplus. To keep things flat long term they agreed to buy a surplus up front expecting to sell it for a profit. Unfortunately in the short term with prices down a bit they couldn't sell their surplus for as much as they wanted to so they're in a bit of a hole. If however, those prices rebound in the future they'll be making bank.

As of right now the townspeople aren't actually paying higher bills. They're still getting cheap energy it's just that the town is running a deficit. That sucks, but if they can negotiate the rates down they should be fine, and if things pick up down the road they could still come out way ahead. Time will tell.

Thank you for supporting the article. if they are running a deficit it means they are not making money. meaning it is costing them money and someone is going to have to pay for it.

Furthermore, the massive move towards clean energy around the world is likely one of the bigger reasons why so many other energy sources are coming so cheap. The small sacrifices that towns like this are making are hugely beneficial to us all. Rather than attack them for doing the right thing we should be thanking them. This is why these types of decisions really need to be made at higher levels like the state and federal level to ensure that we all share the burden.

cool so i can expect you to hand me the extra 1000 a year for my electricity so you can have warm fuzzies that you are doing something.

great.

i can't afford your warm fuzzies. i am glad you can.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...er-prices-surge-for-german-mittelstand-merkel

people in germany don't like paying for warm fuzzies either.

 

[longview]

I think most people do not understand where the higher cost come from when there is a lot of alternative energy in an area.
It really is simply an accounting change.
A utility ether buys or generates power for their wholesale cost.
They add on top of that cost the labor, delivery, and grid maintenance cost.
If a for profit company, they add a little markup, and that is the retail rate.
When a homeowner is attached in a net metering connection, the meter effectively spins backwards during every surplus period of the day,
one for one at the retail rate. So this is making the utility purchase units of electricity at their retail rate.
Every surplus Kwh of alternate power generated, removes money from the labor, delivery, grid maintenance column.
The funds have to be maintained for continued operation of the utility, and so the monies have to come from somewhere.
Part of the problem is, if the utility raises rates, the net metered customers now sell their surplus at the new higher rate.
California is attempting to address this with their 3ed generation of net metering, where the homeowner get credit for the retail
rate less 2 or 3 cents per Kwh.
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/th...to-californias-net-metering-successor/516261/

 

[SoCal]

i grew up in a coal state and lived next to a coal power plant for years and years and years.
guess what i am healthy as a horse.

so take your appeal to emotion arguments elsewhere.

A Beginner's Guide to Statistics...

 

[ludin]

A Beginner's Guide to Statistics...

your the one that made appeal to emotion fallacy i did not.
you should probably look up appeal to emotion fallacies and get back to us.

 

[CanadianJudo]

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tex...ppy-while-sticking-its-citizens-with-the-bill

Now, however, they are on the defensive over electricity costs that have their residents paying more than $1,000 per household in higher electricity charges over the last four years.
That’s right - $1,219 per household in higher electricity costs for the 71,000 residents of Georgetown, Texas,

i know i can't afford that.

my electric bill is high enough the way that it is.

Hydroelectic and Nuclear are both extremely cheap to produce.

 

[MrWonka]

Thank you for supporting the article. if they are running a deficit it means they are not making money. meaning it is costing them money and someone is going to have to pay for it.

But it may not actually be them. It will depend on future energy prices. It is entirely possible that in the future these prices to back up, and they make a surplus to cancel it out. That is one nice thing that a government can do well for its people is provide stability by absorbing short term deficits in tough times until things bounce back. Really nothing wrong with that.

cool soi can expect you to hand me the extra 1000 a year for my electricity so you can have warm fuzzies that you are doing something.

Maybe you should read the article again. The townspeople are not actually paying higher rates right now. They might in the future, but it's also possible things could swing back the other way and cancel them out. If that happens it would then be you who would owe me the extra money.

people in Germany don't like paying for warm fuzzies either.

So you just don't really understand how investments work do you? Generally, with an investment, the idea is that you ensure a substantial cost up front, and then over time, you make more money than you had originally. You may not be able to afford the upfront costs, but the government can, and over the long haul you will be much better off for it.

 

[MrWonka]

your the one that made appeal to emotion fallacy

Please learn what fallacies actually mean before you use them.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

You used a personal experience or an isolated example instead of a sound argument or compelling evidence.
It's often much easier for people to believe someone's testimony as opposed to understanding complex data and variation across a continuum. Quantitative scientific measures are almost always more accurate than personal perceptions and experiences, but our inclination is to believe that which is tangible to us, and/or the word of someone we trust over a more 'abstract' statistical reality.

You think the fact that you lived near a coal plant for a while without dying so that allows you to ignore the fact that every study on the subject shows unequivocally that breathing in large amounts of coal dust is heavily correlated to early death. All the coal miners who died before the age of 60 don't give a flying **** about your anecdotal evidence.

 

[ludin]

Please learn what fallacies actually mean before you use them.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal



You think the fact that you lived near a coal plant for a while without dying so that allows you to ignore the fact that every study on the subject shows unequivocally that breathing in large amounts of coal dust is heavily correlated to early death. All the coal miners who died before the age of 60 don't give a flying **** about your anecdotal evidence.

i actually never said that. I said I didn't have a problem with it.
I know people that work in coal mines that have black lung from the stuff,

however the appeal to emotion argument he was using was failed. We have gotten a lot better with coal powered plants.
they are highly efficient and are pretty clean with how they produce power now.

they also produce more electric for lower cost than your warm fuzzy plants do.