Great 'Moderate' Americans

[ptsdkid]

The term ‘great moderates’ is the perfect example of an oxymoron. How many great leaders, writers, philosophers, presidents, inventors, entrepreneurs, generals, heroes, etc. do you suppose had backgrounds that included a ‘moderate’ political affiliation or ideology?
One would think of the aforementioned greats as being movers, shakers, go-getters, goal oriented, progressive, thought provoked, resolve minded, impetuous, and intellectually stimulated.
I see the ‘moderate’ as being the run of the mill, indecisive, confused, indolent, a follower i.e. a lackey/minion/peon,--anything but one destined for greatness.
Have you ever heard of a ‘moderate’ running for president? Of course not, people want and will only vote for someone that has a vision/plan above the moderate or mediocre line of indifference.

 

[dsanthony]

There are many "great" moderates. Henry Clay comes quickly to mind. Despite the myth surrounding Lincoln, he was actually a moderate as well -- neither a strong supporter of slavery, or an active abolitionist.

 

[ptsdkid]

There are many "great" moderates. Henry Clay comes quickly to mind. Despite the myth surrounding Lincoln, he was actually a moderate as well -- neither a strong supporter of slavery, or an active abolitionist.

*** Henry Clay was a Democrat-Republican and founder of the Whig Party. He was elected to the House of Representatives at the age of 34 and was soon elected to be the Speaker of the House. Clay turned his Speakership role into a position of power by immediately appointing War Hawks to all the important committees. Clay supported the War of 1812 and helped negotiate the treaty of Ghent. Hardly sounds like a moderate to me.

 

[dsanthony]

Apparently you've never heard of the Missouri Compromise, or the Compromise of 1950--both of which Clay guided to moderate the opposing slavery and abolition forces. What would a moderate do EXCEPT negotiate a treaty to end a war.

Moderate does not mean one has no views of one's own.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Apparently you've never heard of the Missouri Compromise, or the Compromise of 1950--both of which Clay guided to moderate the opposing slavery and abolition forces. What would a moderate do EXCEPT negotiate a treaty to end a war.

Moderate does not mean one has no views of one's own.

Beat me to it dsanthony :smile:. Clay was known as the 'Great Compromiser' and is considered one of the greatest senators, ever. Remember: though he was initially a 'War Hawk' during the War of 1812, he was also one of the chief negotiators of the Treaty of Ghent, ending the war. Clay's ability as House Speaker was shown in his superb ability to mediate opposing forces and views and assist in coming to a resolution.

Since, once again, ptsdkid has started, yet another moderate-bashing thread, here's a question for you, kid. Define a non-moderate in political agenda/positional terms.

 

[Iriemon]

The term ‘great moderates’ is the perfect example of an oxymoron. How many great leaders, writers, philosophers, presidents, inventors, entrepreneurs, generals, heroes, etc. do you suppose had backgrounds that included a ‘moderate’ political affiliation or ideology?
One would think of the aforementioned greats as being movers, shakers, go-getters, goal oriented, progressive, thought provoked, resolve minded, impetuous, and intellectually stimulated.
I see the ‘moderate’ as being the run of the mill, indecisive, confused, indolent, a follower i.e. a lackey/minion/peon,--anything but one destined for greatness.
Have you ever heard of a ‘moderate’ running for president? Of course not, people want and will only vote for someone that has a vision/plan above the moderate or mediocre line of indifference.

Clinton was a moderate. Lots of folks voted for him.

 

[dsanthony]

But he was not "great" by any definition. He was a throw away candidate by the Dems, because no major figure thought Bush was beatable... until after the nomination process was decided and the economy took a turn.

 

[Loki]

But he was not "great" by any definition. He was a throw away candidate by the Dems, because no major figure thought Bush was beatable... until after the nomination process was decided and the economy took a turn.

Not great but the best democrat president in over a generation. Carter and johnson totally s**ked.

 

[TurtleDude]

Not great but the best democrat president in over a generation. Carter and johnson totally s**ked.

I agree-Clinton Lovers ought to proudly proclaim

DEM PRESIDENTS SUCK BUT WILLY SUCKED LESS:mrgreen:

 

[Iriemon]

But he was not "great" by any definition. He was a throw away candidate by the Dems, because no major figure thought Bush was beatable... until after the nomination process was decided and the economy took a turn.

Well, OK, I wasn't trying to make a statement that Clinton was "great" based on the title of the thread, but responding to this assertion by ptsskid:

Have you ever heard of a ‘moderate’ running for president? Of course not, people want and will only vote for someone that has a vision/plan above the moderate or mediocre line of indifference.

Whether or not you think Clinton was great, I think its fair to say that there have been "moderates" running for president, and IMO its fair to put Clinton in that category.

 

[niftydrifty]

George Washington despised the idea of political parties and refused to be a part of it. He was a great Moderate.

... and then there's also me. I'm a great Moderate American.

 

[Morrow]

I think moderate in regards to politics is for people who don’t fall into one of the sides of the day. It lacks quantitative and qualitative forms of measure. The term moderate contains just as much useful information on someone as saying they are nice. That’s sarcasm by the way.

EDIT: I forgot to include my great moderate
General Marshal, U.S. Chief of Staff during WWII. While having a political career following the way he did a now legendary job in internaitonal relations, specifically the Marshal plan. But, by no means was he anything other than a moderate.

 

[ptsdkid]

Beat me to it dsanthony :smile:. Clay was known as the 'Great Compromiser' and is considered one of the greatest senators, ever. Remember: though he was initially a 'War Hawk' during the War of 1812, he was also one of the chief negotiators of the Treaty of Ghent, ending the war. Clay's ability as House Speaker was shown in his superb ability to mediate opposing forces and views and assist in coming to a resolution.

***Being a great compromiser and negotiator just proves that the man had many talents up and above being the leader of the War Hawks, but leader of the War Hawks, nonetheless.

Since, once again, ptsdkid has started, yet another moderate-bashing thread, here's a question for you, kid. Define a non-moderate in political agenda/positional terms.

***Methinks I've established quite a laundry list of moderate traits in the opening post. Bottom line.....moderates play little or no role in political agendas that make a difference in rocking our country.

 

[ptsdkid]

Clinton was a moderate. Lots of folks voted for him.

***I nearly fell off my gold-studded throne reading that one. I'm surprised that none of you elite moderates hadn't questioned that one.
Clinton is about as liberal as they get. Sure, he campaigned as a moderate, as I see Hillary doing as well, but ask any Conservative (a liberal's opposite) whether they would consider Clinton to be a moderate--and you'll most likely see uncontrollable laughter.

 

[dsanthony]

Well, OK, I wasn't trying to make a statement that Clinton was "great" based on the title of the thread, but responding to this assertion by ptsskid:

Have you ever heard of a ‘moderate’ running for president? Of course not, people want and will only vote for someone that has a vision/plan above the moderate or mediocre line of indifference.

Whether or not you think Clinton was great, I think its fair to say that there have been "moderates" running for president, and IMO its fair to put Clinton in that category.

Well, I'm not sure about that. Clinton was forced to moderate because the congress and the public reacted violently to his liberal agenda... primarily Saint Hilary's foray into "universal health care".. remember? Slick Willie earned his nickname, and kept the presidency, by adopting to the program put forward by the Republican Congress.

 

[niftydrifty]

Bottom line.....moderates play little or no role in political agendas that make a difference in rocking our country.

Really? Moderates outnumber Liberals and Conservatives in this country, combined. What about the moderates in the Senate that work in a bi-partisan manner to produce legislation?

To the degree that your statement is true, the country is much the worse for it.

 

[ModerateDem]

What are you all talking about I am a great moderate. :fueltofir

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Being a great compromiser and negotiator just proves that the man had many talents up and above being the leader of the War Hawks, but leader of the War Hawks, nonetheless.

Initially he was the leader of the War Hawks...for the War of 1812. He spent nearly 40 more years in Congress and during that time his views moderated. He did everything he could to try to avert war with respect to the slavery issue.

Methinks I've established quite a laundry list of moderate traits in the opening post. Bottom line.....moderates play little or no role in political agendas that make a difference in rocking our country.

I asked for you to define a NON-moderate in political agenda/positional terms, not a moderate. You have already done that in completely innaccurate terms, so I hope you can do better with this.

 

[dsanthony]

I think moderate in regards to politics is for people who don’t fall into one of the sides of the day. It lacks quantitative and qualitative forms of measure. The term moderate contains just as much useful information on someone as saying they are nice. That’s sarcasm by the way.

EDIT: I forgot to include my great moderate
General Marshal, U.S. Chief of Staff during WWII. While having a political career following the way he did a now legendary job in internaitonal relations, specifically the Marshal plan. But, by no means was he anything other than a moderate.

You're forgetting of course that McCarthy named Marshall as a Communist during his reign of terror... largely because of the social programs he championed in Europe. He was actually strongly anti-communist, and launced the "Marshall Plan" because he knew that poor and hopeless people across Europe would turn toward communism if they fell into despair. I don't really think he was moderate at all.

Of course, Moderate is a relative term. Today's moderates would have been considered rightwing by the 60s nutjobs. Likewise, todays moderates would have been considered socialists by the standards of the 1920s.

 

[Navy Pride]

Clinton was a moderate. Lots of folks voted for him.

Wrong as usual......Its true Clinton ran as a moderate but he governed as a Liberal......If you don't believe me ask Zell Miller who he fooled so bad that Miller made his key note speech at the 1992 democratic convention........

 

[Morrow]

Wrong as usual......Its true Clinton ran as a moderate but he governed as a Liberal......If you don't believe me ask Zell Miller who he fooled so bad that Miller made his key note speech at the 1992 democratic convention........

Zell Miller, wait a minute, you mean this guy?

http://pekingduck.org/archives/zell miller.jpg

 

[ptsdkid]

What are you all talking about I am a great moderate. :fueltofir

***PROVE IT!

 

[Navy Pride]

Zell Miller, wait a minute, you mean this guy?

http://pekingduck.org/archives/zell miller.jpg

Yeah that is him a loyal democrat for 50 years to a party that deserted him......

I bet I could take a picture of you that would make you look bad too.

 

[Iriemon]

Originally Posted by Iriemon
Clinton was a moderate. Lots of folks voted for him.

***I nearly fell off my gold-studded throne reading that one. I'm surprised that none of you elite moderates hadn't questioned that one.
Clinton is about as liberal as they get. Sure, he campaigned as a moderate, as I see Hillary doing as well, but ask any Conservative (a liberal's opposite) whether they would consider Clinton to be a moderate--and you'll most likely see uncontrollable laughter.

Wrong as usual......Its true Clinton ran as a moderate but he governed as a Liberal......If you don't believe me ask Zell Miller who he fooled so bad that Miller made his key note speech at the 1992 democratic convention........

Let's compare the "about as liberal as they get" president to our current conservative president:

Clinton the liberal: Balanced the budget, controlled growth of Govt spending, signed a law the greatly curtailed welfare.

Bush the conservative: Brought back huge deficits and skyrocketing debt, out of control Govt spending, passed the Drug Company Profit Enhancement Act which is costing hundreds of billions.

OK. [uncontrollable laughter] You guys are right. Clinton is about as liberal as you can get.

Which is exactly why I'm a liberal these days.

 

[dsanthony]

We had a relatively interesting debate going. The partisans are taking over and it has become a bush vs. clinton debate. As if we needed another one.