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Gradualism - How Christianity is Destroyed via Politics.

Shamgar

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Gradualism - How Christianity is Destroyed via Politics. Each and every compromise made by Christains to nonchristians underminds the principles of Christianity.

 

Shamgar

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galenrox said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the main flaw with the pharises that they were too connected with the old ways because through the old ways they had power? From what I've read in the bible, it seemed that their flaws stemmed from their fear of change, and their hypocricy came from them believing that whatever they do is right, and any dissidence was wrong. Reminds me personally of certain people in the religious right.
Well there you go again . . . an unsubstantiated opinion. . .

Mark 7:1 Then came together to him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, who came from Jerusalem. 2 And when they saw some of his disciples eating bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashed, hands, they found fault. {defiled: or, common} 3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands often, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. {oft: or, diligently: in the original, with the fist: Theophylact, up to the elbow} 4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there are, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, and of brasen vessels, and tables. {pots: sextarius is about a pint and an half} {tables: or, beds} 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands? 6 He answered and said to them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied concerning you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 But in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

Yes, the conservatives and you do away with the commandments of God for the sake of your traditions.
 

sitegod

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is it not about TIME that the Church moved out of its own sexist piggish and hypocritical ways? isnt it time that Christianity did the same? personally- if any law authorized painting churches pink and yellow and turning the cross into a dohnut it wouldnt be a moment too soon...

"Our Bakery, who art in the back of the shop, hollow be thy core, thy filling come, thy will be done, on the plate as well as in the bag, forgive us this day our daily abcences of sugar,and those that do not remind us to put it on. Ajelly"

mwahahaha. NOW thats a grace I would like to say
 

SHodges

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Religion's death is in knowledge, not any political agenda.
 

Dogger807

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SHodges said:
Religion's death is in knowledge, not any political agenda.
A very true statement that. There are so many poltical agendas out there that politics can not really be called the deciding factor in anything out there. In fact I would say thru the religious right's agendas politics is slowing the demise of religion.

The true title of this thread should be "How politics interfere with the enforcement of the way I think religion should be."
 

SHodges

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By allowing it to exist, they interfere with the way "it should be", yes.
 

leejosepho

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SHodges said:
Religion's death is in knowledge, not any political agenda.
dogger807 said:
A very true statement ...
Yes, I agree: When truth is known, religion is, in comparison, disgusting ...

... but are we here calling the same thing "truth", SHodges?

Knowledge of truth, I say, is knowledge of YHWH.

Shabbat Shalom.
 

SHodges

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The "truth" is that religion is a way for people to seize power over others, for people to get a sense of superiority over others, a way to keep the underclasses hopeful and productive in their factories (or on their fields, when it was originally conceived), a sham basically. Any other "truth" you are calling is nothing more than yet another in a long line of falsehoods.
 

nkgupta80

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buddhism would give me power over others?...
 

leejosepho

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SHodges said:
The "truth" is that religion is a way for people to seize power over others, for people to get a sense of superiority over others, a way to keep the underclasses hopeful and productive in their factories (or on their fields, when it was originally conceived), a sham basically.
On that particular matter, yes, that is truth. Hence, it is YHWH, Himself, who is now seeing to it that all sectarian religion is destroyed.

SHodges said:
Any other "truth" you are calling is nothing more than yet another in a long line of falsehoods.
Such as with your first statement, and with intellectual honesty in mind here, do you have any supporting evidence for others to consider along that line of thinking?

Personally, I have plenty to the contrary.
 

Red_Dave

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SHodges said:
The "truth" is that religion is a way for people to seize power over others, for people to get a sense of superiority over others, a way to keep the underclasses hopeful and productive in their factories (or on their fields, when it was originally conceived), a sham basically. Any other "truth" you are calling is nothing more than yet another in a long line of falsehoods.
Anyone who holds the view the religeon is an instrument of opression is in need of a history lesson. Martin luther king Malcom X Nelson Mandela and Desmond tutu where all Religous. Much of the anti-slavery campain on either side of the pond was led by evangelicals and quakers. Brittans first trade union was partly founded by a methodist minister and the policys of its first socialist party where said to have taken "More from Methodisom than from Marx". Ironcially christiality actually started with the underclass and the upper-classes [the romans] tryed to stamp it out. If anyone seriously belives christiality and equal rights and incompatable i would like to know which bible they are useing
 
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leejosepho

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Red_Dave said:
Anyone who holds the view the religeon is an instrument of opression is in need of a history lesson. Martin luther king Malcom X Nelson Mandela and Desmond tutu where all Religous ...
Yes, maybe so, but that does not mean they used religion to so whatever seeming good they did.

In the end, sectarian religion is found to be an abomination.
 

Red_Dave

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leejosepho said:
Yes, maybe so, but that does not mean they used religion to so whatever seeming good they did.

In the end, sectarian religion is found to be an abomination.
If i remember rightly alot of the civil rights marches where organised through the black churches. King was part of the leadership of an organisation called "the southern christian leadership conference" or something similar which was a network of church leaders in which king used his influence to kick off the civil rights movment. In some of the old videos of marches you see people singing hyms e.t.c and there are even one or two references to the bible in Kings "I have a dream" speach. So all in all i think religoen played a major role in a the movement.

As i said the labour movement in the uk was pretty much born out of christiality. The founder of the labour party [the first socialst party to gain seats in the uk] onece said

"I have said, both in writing and from the platform many times, that the impetus which drove me first into the Labour movement, and the inspiration which has carried me on in it, has been derived more from the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth than from all other sources combined."
 
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leejosepho

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Red_Dave said:
If i remember rightly alot of the civil rights marches where organised through the black churches ...
So all in all i think religoen played a major role in a the movement.
I do understand what you are saying, and I do not mean to find fault with anyone's perception. Rather, I believe this quotation makes my point:

"I have said, both in writing and from the platform many times, that the impetus which drove me first into the Labour movement, and the inspiration which has carried me on in it, has been derived more from the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth than from all other sources combined."
... including, I assume, sectarian religion. I know nothing about that "Labour Movement", but it certainly appears to be about "rightness" rather than "religion".

For example, I sit here trying to bear witness of YHWH while decrying *all* sectarian religion, and I do not do that for the sake of *any* mere religion.
 

SHodges

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nkgupta80 said:
buddhism would give me power over others?...
Were you to achieve a position of power within it, yes, you would have a measure of power and influence over those who practice Buddhism. However, Buddhism is an irrelevant religion on the world stage as was not being referenced in my original post. Scientology has more influence than Buddhism.

leejosepho said:
On that particular matter, yes, that is truth. Hence, it is YHWH, Himself, who is now seeing to it that all sectarian religion is destroyed.
Or humanity itself is waking up, but I won't argue the reasons with you, provided you marginally agree with the view that it is leaving, and unnecessary.



Such as with your first statement, and with intellectual honesty in mind here, do you have any supporting evidence for others to consider along that line of thinking?

Personally, I have plenty to the contrary.
Nothing that would convince anyone. Would you have me make a long list of the atrocities religion has caused, the wars, the oppression, how it's been used as a power base for ambitious individuals? Would you have me list "bible continuity errors"? These things are things that all people on the internet have seen at one time or another, and those who practice religion are not very likely to listen if they did not listen the first time. Though I assure you, whatever proof you may have is equally inconsequential. The good and selfless deeds of the very few in religion will never outweigh the wicked and selfish deeds of the very many in that same religion.

Anyone who holds the view the religeon is an instrument of opression is in need of a history lesson. Martin luther king Malcom X Nelson Mandela and Desmond tutu where all Religous. Much of the anti-slavery campain on either side of the pond was led by evangelicals and quakers. Brittans first trade union was partly founded by a methodist minister and the policys of its first socialist party where said to have taken "More from Methodisom than from Marx". Ironcially christiality actually started with the underclass and the upper-classes [the romans] tryed to stamp it out. If anyone seriously belives christiality and equal rights and incompatable i would like to know which bible they are useing
I’m afraid those that would defend religion are the ones in sore need of a history lesson, not I. A few good people (And Malcom X wasn’t one of them) being “religious”, all to different degrees, and all of these “degrees” changing in public, that changes nothing. I could list 100 times more “good” people that were non-religious, your point is nonexistent. As for the equal rights thing, I believe they are using the “King James” bible. The bible slanders women, other races, heaps praise on slavery and abuse, among other things. The bible is holy if you are one of the few who would benefit from the treatment of people contained within, and nothing more than a “how to” book for hate groups if you are not.
 

leejosepho

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leejosepho said:
... it is YHWH, Himself, who is now seeing to it that all sectarian religion is destroyed.
SHodges said:
Or humanity itself is waking up, but I won't argue the reasons with you, provided you marginally agree with the view that it is leaving, and unnecessary.
Because at least certain aspects of "religion" do offer a positive sense of direction or purpose for at least some people, I might hedge a bit as to "unnecessary", as in "completely unnecessary". However, we far more than *marginally* agree that (sectarian) religion is now "leaving", and I am even willing to say YHWH's removal of it could be through humanity's "waking up".

Do you have any supporting evidence that [my] “Knowledge of truth, I say, is knowledge of YHWH” [statement] is “nothing more than yet another in a long line of falsehoods?"
SHodges said:
Nothing that would convince anyone. Would you have me make a long list of the atrocities religion has caused, the wars, the oppression, how it's been used as a power base for ambitious individuals?
No, I would ask that you set religion aside altogether if presenting any evidence you might have along that line.

SHodges said:
Though I assure you, whatever proof you may have is equally inconsequential ...
... along the line of "Nothing that would convince anyone", I presume you mean, and yes, I would essentially agree with that.

SHodges said:
The bible slanders women, other races, heaps praise on slavery and abuse, among other things. The bible is holy if you are one of the few who would benefit from the treatment of people contained within, and nothing more than a “how to” book for hate groups if you are not.
Wow. How did you ever end up believing that?
 
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SHodges

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By reading the book cover to cover, something very few "religious" people can claim to have done.
 

SHodges

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I'd say you're incorrect.
 

leejosepho

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SHodges said:
By reading the book cover to cover ...
No, that would not be it. Something else had to be a factor for you to draw those kinds of conclusions.
 

SHodges

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Yes, that is it, your analysis is flawed. There is no other "factor", there is no "evil influence", those "damn kooky liberals" didn't get to me, I just read the book and drew the logical conclusion that most people are afraid to because they were "raised this way". I just read the bible, the entire thing, and took in what I read. The end.
 

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SHodges said:
Were you to achieve a position of power within it, yes, you would have a measure of power and influence over those who practice Buddhism. However, Buddhism is an irrelevant religion on the world stage as was not being referenced in my original post. Scientology has more influence than Buddhism.
this statement is untrue. Scientoligist are mearly more vocal. Buddism has more followers 375 million vs the 500 thousand of scientology.
 

YamiB.

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dogger807 said:
this statement is untrue. Scientoligist are mearly more vocal. Buddism has more followers 375 million vs the 500 thousand of scientology.
Scientoligy does have a great deal less followers, but they may be equal or stronger than Buddhism because of their great wealth.
 

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leejosepho said:
I do understand what you are saying, and I do not mean to find fault with anyone's perception. Rather, I believe this quotation makes my point:



... including, I assume, sectarian religion. I know nothing about that "Labour Movement", but it certainly appears to be about "rightness" rather than "religion".

For example, I sit here trying to bear witness of YHWH while decrying *all* sectarian religion, and I do not do that for the sake of *any* mere religion.
Sorry could you explain what you mean by "sectarian religion"? My point about the labour movement was that although it was inspired a sence of "rightness" the concept of justice alot of these people where working off came from their christian faith, therfore sugestions that religeon is an intrument of opression strikes me as absurd if its used for the opossite.
 

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SHodges said:
I’m afraid those that would defend religion are the ones in sore need of a history lesson, not I. A few good people (And Malcom X wasn’t one of them) being “religious”, all to different degrees, and all of these “degrees” changing in public, that changes nothing. I could list 100 times more “good” people that were non-religious, your point is nonexistent. As for the equal rights thing, I believe they are using the “King James” bible. The bible slanders women, other races, heaps praise on slavery and abuse, among other things. The bible is holy if you are one of the few who would benefit from the treatment of people contained within, and nothing more than a “how to” book for hate groups if you are not.
I wouldnt agree that the degree of religiosity of the people i mentioned changed in public.You,ve got to admit that the role of religion in the civil rights movement was pretty expicit.

Although the you may well be able to list more good people who wherent religous then I can religous people that wouldnt prove my point. My point wasnt that most good people where religous. What i was saying was the religoen can not be an intrument of opression if it motivates people towards createing a fairer society.

Now firstly the King James bible is not the most acuarate of translations but even so social justice is a major theme all the way through it. The thing you need to remember about the Old testement is that just because slavery and abuse happens doesnt mean it is praised. The bible would be pretty useless as a "how to book for hate groups" Due to the way jesus's teachings and lifestyle where very revolutionary in breaking down the prejudices around at the time. A good example of this is the parable of the good smaritian and various parables condeming the attiude of the rich towards the poor.
 
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