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Government Workers__What a waste of tax-dollars!

Um, the point was that the single largest sector that has wasted federal tax dollars, by their own admission, is the US military.

No other entity of the federal govt has wasted tax dollars at this level or as long as the US military.

It is pointless to begin a discussion on govt waste.....and exclude the single largest culprit.
Okay, I'll deal with this issue on the level you have chose_

I would imagine the enormous waste in the military is mostly the result of it having the biggest budget of any other government entity, rather than simply being more careless, corrupt or wasteful than the rest, if that's what you were suggesting_

As well as taking into consideration such things as the intelligence community, black ops, area 51 and weapons research, which are all funded through the military and aren't required to be accountable for much of their allowance_

At least that's what I've been led to believe_
 
Okay, I'll deal with this issue on the level you have chose_

I would imagine the enormous waste in the military is mostly the result of it having the biggest budget of any other government entity, rather than simply being more careless, corrupt or wasteful than the rest, if that's what you were suggesting_

As well as taking into consideration such things as the intelligence community, black ops, area 51 and weapons research, which are all funded through the military and aren't required to be accountable for much of their allowance_

At least that's what I've been led to believe_

You don't understand the facts.

The DoD has never been audited. Ever. It can't be audited since it doesn't produce GAAP standard books and records. The CBO keeps trying to get the DoD to start acting like a grown up, but to this date it hasn't been audited and continues to produce records that defy audit.

Every other government agency produces auditable books and is audited. We know what happens to the penny. If money is missing, we know it and can hold somebody accountable. Not so with the DoD. We have no idea how much money is simply vanished, much less wasted.
 
Attention Everyone!

I do not dismiss military waste as a problem!

Military waste is as inexcusable as any other!

My "excluding military" comment simply meant that I do not hold the thousands of citizen soldiers responsible for that waste!

These men and women join the military; serve their country; and on completion of their enlistment, return to the private sector!

Those who serve a short term hitch in the military do not share the guilt of the stars and bars and politicians that actually waste!

I would appreciate if we could now focus on the primary issue of the OP which was unnecessary government employees_thank you!
 
I've proposed a great solution that obama has endorsed and used on the remainder of society (non public employees). Its' called the part time plan. We simply reduce all federal employees to 25 hours a week, drop their health care and retirement plans completely and then we can afford to hire a second 25 hour per week person. This will dramatically decrease unemployment. And we know just about anyone can do most of the jobs. The elimination of extreme benefit packages will more than make up for the additional 10 hours of employment each week, and with 10 additional hours of service to the public we might actually get the job done.
I see your point CalGun but I'm aiming a little higher_

I'm proposing we do away with the majority of government employees all together!

After all; why should we be paying people we don't need and can't afford?! :thumbs:
 
IDK if we pay them just a tad more then they'd get on public assistance it's like getting something for nothing!


I see your point CalGun but I'm aiming a little higher_

I'm proposing we do away with the majority of government employees all together!

After all; why should we be paying people we don't need and can't afford?! :thumbs:
 
Attention Everyone!

I do not dismiss military waste as a problem!

You still don't get it. It isn't even a matter of waste. We can't even tell what's wasted and what's stolen and what's properly used. The DoD doesn't produce auditable books. It has never been audited. It's a rogue agency that spends hundreds of billions each year totally unaccounted for.

And you're worried about some allegedly underperforming clerks at a government agency that provides services to the public.

Talk about a lack of perspective.
 
You still don't get it. It isn't even a matter of waste. We can't even tell what's wasted and what's stolen and what's properly used. The DoD doesn't produce auditable books. It has never been audited. It's a rogue agency that spends hundreds of billions each year totally unaccounted for.
This problem can only be solved by the POTUS or Congress but most effectively by the orchestrated effort of both_

This has apparently been going on for a very long time and under the watch of both democrat and republican administrations_

For some reason unbeknownst to we the people, the DoD's policies remain the same, regardless of which party is in charge_

So the only way to correct this problem is at the ballot box by electing candidates who will actually do something about it_

And you're worried about some allegedly underperforming clerks at a government agency that provides services to the public.
Yes I am worried about "some underperforming government clerk providing a public service" as well as the policies of the "DoD"_

I'm also worried about the other 2 million employees, most of which are unnecessary as are most of the government agencies_

I'm also worried about the ever-increasing 20 trillion dollar debt that all this dead weight has been contributing to and still are_

I'm also worried about an out-of-control behemoth government; creating new agencies, expanding old ones and hiring more people_

Talk about a lack of perspective.
Since you apparently have an abundance of perspective I would imagine all of your threads are devoted to military waste?!

I consider all government waste, to be a serious problem regardless of how much is being wasted or who is doing the wasting_

The Military and DoD have their fair share of posts devoted to their waste and deservedly so because they are the big offender_

So there's simply no reason for us to ignore all the other contributors to the nations economic woes and insane spending frenzy_

The Military alone didn't get us into this mess__We have a lot of problems to solve before we can get ourselves out of the RED!
 
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Yes I am worried about "some underperforming government clerk providing a public service" as well as the policies of the "DoD"_

Underperformance is not a public sector specific phenomenon. It occurs across all sectors and industry. I find it hilarious you cannot provide a concrete example of underperformance.

I'm also worried about the other 2 million employees, most of which are unnecessary as are most of the government agencies_

Normative rant without the slightest positive support.

I'm also worried about the ever-increasing 20 trillion dollar debt that all this dead weight has been contributing to and still are_

See above. BTW, the Federal Debt is not $20 trillion.

I'm also worried about an out-of-control behemoth government; creating new agencies, expanding old ones and hiring more people_

Ok.

I consider all government waste, to be a serious problem regardless of how much is being wasted or who is doing the wasting_

You are not capable of quantifying government waste, let alone are you an authority on contemporary fiscal policy.

Define waste.

So there's simply no reason for us to ignore all the other contributors to the nations economic woes and insane spending frenzy_

Fear mongering with respect to "government waste" is something only the most partisan of hacks would attempt. Reducing government expenditures for the sake of reducing alone is short sited; austerity reduces economic growth. This is simply a matter of fact.

I truly hope you are aware that there is no reason to balance the budget. Even when/if we balance, the government must continue to issue debt. Do you know why?
 
You don't appear to be happy with your chosen career yet for some unknown reason you've stuck with it for 24 years_

Which suggests you don't believe you could do better someplace else either doing the same work or in a completely new field_

You strike me as the quintessential public servant that knows their work ethic would never be rewarded or tolerated in the private sector_

I would not want to have your job and I definitely wouldn't want to be one of the people you are responsible for caring for_

Sorry, but you are full of crap and know nothing of what you are talking about. I know Steelplate from other boards, and you have totally mischaracterized him. You would be lucky to have SP taking care of you when you reach the point of needing him.
 
When government gets as large as ours; its not as hard as you might think to misplace billions or even trillions of dollars_

Which makes political greed and corruption a very lucrative enterprise, and the only way to stop it is to shrink government!

HOLY... well, I can't say what I was going to say.

You really think private businesses -which can do pretty much what they want without scrutiny - aren't full of greed and corruption? Have you heard of a company called Enron, for example? Lots more examples out there...
 
HOLY... well, I can't say what I was going to say.

You really think private businesses -which can do pretty much what they want without scrutiny - aren't full of greed and corruption? Have you heard of a company called Enron, for example? Lots more examples out there...

Fyi, Enron failed because of losses in the heavily-regulated consulting and technology sectors. Just saying...
 
Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of local, state and federal government employees are slow, lazy, unqualified, wasteful, inefficient, apathetic, rude, arrogant, overpaid and appear to have absolutely no fear of losing their job; military excluded?

No. No, I have not. And given that you likely haven't encountered the majority of government employees, neither have you.
 
Fyi, Enron failed because of losses in the heavily-regulated consulting and technology sectors. Just saying...
Not even close, Enron's stock price collapsed as a result of the revelations of its accounting scandal. Beyond the fact that "consulting and technology sectors" were NOT "heavily regulated", they went into energy as it was being DEREGULATED.....completely the opposite of what you believe.


During 1990, Enron Finance CEO Jeffrey Skilling hired Andrew Fastow, who was well acquainted with the burgeoning deregulated energy market Skilling wanted to exploit. During 1993, Fastow began establishing numerous limited liability special purpose entities (a common business practice in the energy sector); however, it also allowed Enron to transfer liability so that it would not appear in its accounts, allowing it to maintain a robust and generally increasing stock price and thus keeping its critical investment grade credit ratings.

Enron was originally involved in transmitting and distributing electricity and natural gas throughout the United States. The company developed, built, and operated power plants and pipelines while dealing with rules of law and other infrastructures worldwide. Enron owned a large network of natural gas pipelines, which stretched ocean to ocean and border to border including Northern Natural Gas, Florida Gas Transmission, Transwestern Pipeline company and a partnership in Northern Border Pipeline from Canada. The states of California, New Hampshire and Rhode Island had already passed power deregulation laws by July 1996, the time of Enron's proposal to acquire Portland General Electric corporation.[6] During 1998, Enron began operations in the water sector, creating the Azurix Corporation, which it part-floated on the New York Stock Exchange during June 1999. Azurix failed to become successful in the water utility market, and one of its major concessions, in Buenos Aires, was a large-scale money-loser. After the relocation to Houston, many analysts[who?] criticized the Enron management as being greatly in debt. The Enron management pursued aggressive retribution against its critics, setting the pattern for dealing with accountants, lawyers, and the financial media.

Enron grew wealthy due largely to marketing, promoting power, and its high stock price.[citation needed] Enron was named "America's Most Innovative Company" by the magazine Fortune for six consecutive years, from 1996 to 2001. It was on the Fortune's "100 Best Companies to Work for in America" list during 2000, and had offices that were stunning in their opulence. Enron was hailed by many, including labor and the workforce, as an overall great company, praised for its large long-term pensions, benefits for its workers and extremely effective management until the exposure of its corporate fraud. The first analyst to question the company's success story was Daniel Scotto, an energy market expert at BNP Paribas, who issued a note in August 2001 entitled Enron: All stressed up and no place to go, which encouraged investors to sell Enron stocks, although he only changed his recommendation on the stock from "buy" to "neutral".[7]

As was later discovered, many of Enron's recorded assets and profits were inflated or even wholly fraudulent and nonexistent. One example of fraudulent records was during 1999 when Enron promised to repay Merrill Lynch & Co.'s investment with interest in order to show profit on its books. Debts and losses were put into entities formed "offshore" that were not included in the company's financial statements, and other sophisticated and arcane financial transactions between Enron and related companies were used to eliminate unprofitable entities from the company's books
 
Has anyone ever noticed that the majority of local, state and federal government employees are slow, lazy, unqualified, wasteful, inefficient, apathetic, rude, arrogant, overpaid and appear to have absolutely no fear of losing their job; military excluded?

And when a work-place infraction does result in punishment, it's usually an unscheduled paid vacation_

And the worse the infraction by an employee, the longer their unscheduled paid vacation usually lasts_

And nowhere else are such poor job performances rewarded with generous raises, bonuses and promotions_

It seems whoever does the hiring makes a conscious effort to seek out the worst and keep them that way_

On top of that, taxpayers must pay these people's overly-abundant retirement entitlements until they die!

What's really unfortunate is, the majority of the jobs they perform are a total unnecessary waste of money_

So the only rational explanation is; unnecessary jobs do not require a quality work force to perform them!

Indicating that the Government is simply providing jobs to an otherwise unemployable group of Americans!

Has anyone noticed that some people like to operate solely in the world of cliche and stereotype? These people, when they have an opinion, its not original thought but rather simply a regurgitation of those stereotypes, probably handed down from other people that operate in a world of stereotype.

Interesting that military, a government employer that pretty much takes anyone off the street that will say "yes sir" is not characterized by "....slow, lazy, unqualified, wasteful, inefficient, apathetic, rude, arrogant, overpaid and appear to have absolutely no fear of losing their job..." but every other government agency, be it local, state or federal is characterized by this. Do you honestly believe the military reeks of competence and the rest of government incompetence? Have you ever served? All large organizations have studs and duds; the government at all levels and the military included.

I will not list some the government agencies that do employ capable, educated and ambitious people (far more so than most in the military), as it would be lost on you and I don't want to argue with ignorance..... but seriously, you added nothing to the discussion here but a view of the heart and minds of those that stereotype.
 
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Fyi, Enron failed because of losses in the heavily-regulated consulting and technology sectors. Just saying...

technology and consulting are not "heavily regulated"... in fact, the two are among the least regulated businesses.

Enron failed because of fraud. The were fundamentally running a ponzi scheme (though not in the conventional sense of taking cash from investors to pay off other investors, but using accounting gimmicks to run up their stock value and raising money on inflated valuations). If anything, the Enron scandal existed because of lack of solid oversight of publicly traded companies AND Arthur Andersen losing sight of its primary business of auditing (attesting to the fairness of the presentation of financial statements of its clients).

....and, you are right, you are "just saying" since you have no clue.
 
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You don't understand the facts.

The DoD has never been audited. Ever. It can't be audited since it doesn't produce GAAP standard books and records. The CBO keeps trying to get the DoD to start acting like a grown up, but to this date it hasn't been audited and continues to produce records that defy audit.

Every other government agency produces auditable books and is audited. We know what happens to the penny. If money is missing, we know it and can hold somebody accountable. Not so with the DoD. We have no idea how much money is simply vanished, much less wasted.

If the President and Congress wanted the DoD audited, it would happen. But they don't, so stop making up **** about it.
 
No. No, I have not. And given that you likely haven't encountered the majority of government employees, neither have you.
Good point Kobie__But:
I can say that most of the government employees which I have dealt with are substandard by private sector standards_

Although in many cases these substandard work ethics are likely the result of being employed in a government bureaucracy_

But poor work ethics are actually secondary to the primary problem which I have been trying to draw people's attention to here_

The basic point is; even if these people were the cream of the crop, the majority of the agencies they work for are unnecessary_

Therefore the jobs they perform and the expenses they incur only serve to contribute to a mega-debt and an economy in distress_

The current debt is $17-trillion and will hit $20-trillion by 2017 when Obama leaves office, who has no intentions of downsizing_

We must elect a Congress, a Senate and a President in 2014/2016 who recognize that Big Government is the root of all problems_

Has anyone noticed that some people like to operate solely in the world of cliche and stereotype? These people, when they have an opinion, its not original thought but rather simply a regurgitation of those stereotypes, probably handed down from other people that operate in a world of stereotype.
Would you be referring to the "world of stereotype" which you appear to belong to judging by your inference to those "people that operate in a world of stereotype"?!

Hmmm, could it be that "original" is in the eye of the beholder?!

Interesting that military, a government employer that pretty much takes anyone off the street that will say "yes sir" is not characterized by "....slow, lazy, unqualified, wasteful, inefficient, apathetic, rude, arrogant, overpaid and appear to have absolutely no fear of losing their job..." but every other government agency, be it local, state or federal is characterized by this. Do you honestly believe the military reeks of competence and the rest of government incompetence? Have you ever served? All large organizations have studs and duds; the government at all levels and the military included.
Apples and Oranges:

Unlike the two million permanent employees of the federal government, the military is overwhelmingly made-up of young people who serve a few years in service to their country and return to the private sector with only minimal/temporary benefits for their time served or at the most medical treatment and/or disability for any injuries incurred in the line of duty_

I will not list some the government agencies that do employ capable, educated and ambitious people (far more so than most in the military), as it would be lost on you and I don't want to argue with ignorance..... but seriously, you added nothing to the discussion here but a view of the heart and minds of those that stereotype.
And if the government agencies they work for are necessary and cannot be performed in the private sector, then these "capable, educated and ambitious people" should by all means remain on the taxpayer's payroll_
 
I don't buy into the notion that "Big Government" is the cause of all problems. I think that's patently absurd.
 
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