Government-spending directly means taxation

[Lafayette]

Yes, I am for treating legal immigrants differently than illegal immigrants. The nonsense of calling those who seek better economic opportunity (or less crime) refugees and/or asylum seekers must end.

I agree. This flood of migrants must end. And, in fact, if they do not have a permit to enter a country (which defines their visit-purpose such as "Tourism" or "Business") then they should be escorted out.

There is no room for them and no guaranty by law that they deserve to remain. As happens in most countries, one can make a demand for permission to enter a country. Which can be granted for a period of time and only a period of time for purposes of the visit.

Both America and Europe are presently flooded with illegal migrants. There is only enough work for those legally in the country (here in Europe) ...

 

[danielpalos]

I agree. This flood of migrants must end. And, in fact, if they do not have a permit to enter a country (which defines their visit-purpose such as "Tourism" or "Business") then they should be escorted out.

There is no room for them and no guaranty by law that they deserve to remain. As happens in most countries, one can make a demand for permission to enter a country. Which can be granted for a period of time and only a period of time for purposes of the visit.

Both America and Europe are presently flooded with illegal migrants. There is only enough work for those legally in the country (here in Europe) ...

It is a market based metric. Investing in infrastructure in those foreign nations would be more beneficial.

 

[Lafayette]

We have an illegal problem and an illegal underclass due only to right-wing bigotry and fascism. They only allege to believe in Capitalism when being hypocrites in socialism threads.

Yes, we have the same problem here in Europe.

Most will stick around a while and then move back to wherever they have come from. The EU-economies are improving but there is no real need for the types of migrants that have come in from the Middle-east.

Those who traditionally work in farms (in France, Spain, Portugal, etc.) have been around for decades - and they all have work-permits (whilst some have been nationalized) ...

 

[danielpalos]

Yes, we have the same problem here in Europe.

Most will stick around a while and then move back to wherever they have come from. The EU-economies are improving but there is no real need for the types of migrants that have come in from the Middle-east.

Those who traditionally work in farms (in France, Spain, Portugal, etc.) have been around for decades - and they all have work-permits (whilst some have been nationalized) ...

This is express Constitutional Law right-wingers are being hypocrites to in border threads merely for the sake of their love for bigotry and fascism instead of being legal to the law:

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization

We should have no illegal problem nor any illegal underclass. All foreign nationals in the US should be known to the general Government and federally identified for civil purposes.

Tourism is the first, second, or third largest employer in twenty-nine States in the US. Why do right-wingers seem to prefer their bigotry and fascism to Capitalism, every time it comes up?

 

[Lafayette]

We have an illegal problem and an illegal underclass due only to right-wing bigotry and fascism. They only allege to believe in Capitalism when being hypocrites in socialism threads.

Socialism exists nowhere in the world. It died a long, long time ago. What we have are Social Democracies that believe in the basic laws of foundation of any nation.

I find that the definition of Social Democrats intimates that the purpose of the party is to return to Socialism. Which, however, was tried and found wanting. So Russia turned to Communism along with some satellite nations, whilst Europe formed Social Democrat Parties in most European countries.

Socialism per se died a lonely death. Find me a country in which it is practiced. There are none.
Definition of "socialism":
*A theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of all the means of production and distribution, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole, usually through a centralized government.
*Procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. The stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

The addition of the word "democrat" to "social" is key - because of its meaning that goes like this:
*An advocate of democracy.
*A person who believes in the political or societal equality of all people.

Social Democracy is NOT "socialism". And, in fact, there is no socialist-country anywhere in Europe. Though there are plenty of "Social Democrat" parties ...

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism exists nowhere in the world. It died a long, long time ago. What we have are Social Democracies that believe in the basic laws of foundation of any nation.

In the US, "capitalism died in 1929 and socialism has been bailing out Capitalism ever since."

 

[ttwtt78640]

I agree. This flood of migrants must end. And, in fact, if they do not have a permit to enter a country (which defines their visit-purpose such as "Tourism" or "Business") then they should be escorted out.

There is no room for them and no guaranty by law that they deserve to remain. As happens in most countries, one can make a demand for permission to enter a country. Which can be granted for a period of time and only a period of time for purposes of the visit.

Both America and Europe are presently flooded with illegal migrants. There is only enough work for those legally in the country (here in Europe) ...

Yep, but it seems that at least 12M ‘undocumented’ foreign nationals have slipped through the gaping hole that far too many refer to as being a mere crack.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism per se died a lonely death. Find me a country in which it is practiced. There are none.
Definition of "socialism":
*A theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of all the means of production and distribution, capital, land, etc., by the community as a whole, usually through a centralized government.
*Procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. The stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

The addition of the word "democrat" to "social" is key - because of its meaning that goes like this:
*An advocate of democracy.
*A person who believes in the political or societal equality of all people.

Social Democracy is NOT "socialism". And, in fact, there is no socialist-country anywhere in Europe. Though there are plenty of "Social Democrat" parties ...

I agree to disagree. Government is social-ism. You can't have Government without socialism.

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

[danielpalos]

Yep, but it seems that at least 12M ‘undocumented’ foreign nationals have slipped through the gaping hole that far too many refer to as being a mere crack.

Only due to right-wing bigotry, fascism, and "hatred of capitalism". We should be generating revenue from those twelve million persons and they should all be known to the general Government and federally identified for civil purposes. We should have no illegal problem nor any illegal underclass.

 

[bave]

Have you heard of Gravity Payments? Socialism seems to be able to do where capitalism can only "talk".

Which of the two systems resulted in lifting more people out of poverty while the other resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions?

 

[danielpalos]

Which of the two systems resulted in lifting more people out of poverty while the other resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions?

You only have special pleading. How many people die of poverty wherever there is only capitalism and no government?

 

[bave]

You only have special pleading. How many people die of poverty wherever there is only capitalism and no government?

Capitalism doesn't exist in anarchy, never has, never will.

Socialism, communism, and all the other ideologies you believe in will always fail because of basic human nature. People will always take the easiest path.

You have some misguided deranged view that paying everyone to stay home is akin to "equal protection under the law". It's not. You are trying to pawn off some half baked stoner idea that you can force a minority of tax payers to let lazy scumbags continue to be lazy scumbags forever.

Grow.Up.

 

[aociswundumho]

Capitalism doesn't exist in anarchy, never has, never will.

Capitalism does not need the state, if it did, black markets wouldn't exist.

Or say a boat with 100 people on it become shipwrecked on a desert island. Private property in the means of production will exist on the island. Some people will fish, some will build huts, some will gather firewood, etc, whatever, they will produce the best they can and they will trade with each other. No rotten government is needed or desired.

 

[Lafayette]

Yep, but it seems that at least 12M ‘undocumented’ foreign nationals have slipped through the gaping hole that far too many refer to as being a mere crack.

And how do they plan to sustain themselves without jobs? Biden is going to rush down and manage the mess himself?

EVERYBODY in Texas must have seen this coming. Everybody .... !

PS: By law, they are illegal migrants! And somebody "high up" gave the instruction to "let them in"!

 

[Lafayette]

In the US, "capitalism died in 1929 and socialism has been bailing out Capitalism ever since."

Socialism is not bailing out anything anywhere. It's been dead ever since Communist Russia closed its doors. And reopened them under the "crook" presently leading the country who finagled his reelection!

(See a doctor! You are hearing things ... !)

 

[Lafayette]

Yep, but it seems that at least 12M ‘undocumented’ foreign nationals have slipped through the gaping hole that far too many refer to as being a mere crack.

Oh, really? And who is housing and feeding them? Uncle Sam? Let's see the footage please. Somebody must have taken pictures.

Nope! These people are hanging around Texan towns trying to find a way to feed themselves.

And Uncle Sam is waiting excitedly to house the next migrant-boatload into Florida from Cuba?

Oh what fun this all this shit is! And it has come for Christmas! How nice that the Kentucky-mess has arrived for a distraction from the Texan-mess ... !

PS: And what about California? How are they managing this Christmas-Gift from Mexico?

 

[Lafayette]

MUCHO-MOULAH FOR THE RICH IN AMERICA!

In the US, "capitalism died in 1929 and socialism has been bailing out Capitalism ever since."

Rubbish! Americans haven't even the foggiest notion of what consists "socialism". And your quote above demonstrates that fact.

Just look at the share of wealth (in the graphic below) - how enlarged it is for the rich and how diminished it is for the poor. So, who is bailing out who? I suspect it is the comparatively more-poor who bail-out the comparative more-rich with their Demand for goods/services. Which is the fundamental reason why some people-get-rich!

And, people like you will think, "Well, that's the way God wants it!" (Frankly, God has nothing to do with it!)

It's pure idiocy to think that anybody who works "hard enough" deserves to get "rich". The economy is not a battleground where the poor get screwed and the rich get "what they want" - that is, Mucho Moolah!

What's an economy? Basic definition:

The production and consumption of goods and services and the supply of money.

And what is not stated is the consequence that the process also works (if not done properly) by having two exactly opposite results. Mucho-Moulah for the Rich and Mucho-Crapola for the poorest as shown here below:

Welcome to America, sucker! Where the Top-20% GET MOST OF THE WEALTH! And the Bottom 20% get diddly-shat ... !

 

[EMNofSeattle]

That points out two major problems with the personal federal income tax (FIT) code: 1) the ability of the donor class to get congress critters to enact ‘special’ income tax treatment (often called ‘loopholes’) of “investment” (non-wage?) income and 2) the ridiculous notion that identical amounts of income should (out of fairness?) be taxed differently based on how and/or upon who that income was later spent.

Another problem is the relative ease of having personal income be treated as business (corporate?) income which is taxed under entirely different portions of the FIT code, generally at a flat rate, thus avoiding the (higher) progressive rates applied to personal income (of the same amount).

The real problem here is that the income tax exists at all. It was originally proposed as a very small temporary tax on only super wealthy people. It needs to be totally repealed and replaced with super high import duties.

 

[Lafayette]

PRACTICAL NECESSITIES

The real problem here is that the income tax exists at all. It was originally proposed as a very small temporary tax on only super wealthy people. It needs to be totally repealed and replaced with super high import duties.

Income Tax is personal and the revenue should be applied to the people. Because in terms of both Education and Healthcare, it is we-the-people that benefit most!

Namely in the form of a low-cost National Healthcare Service (that Uncle Sam has only partially) and nearly-free Tertiary Education (that exists fully in Europe but only partially in the US)!

Those are the two-most urgent practical-necessities of America today and tomorrow and long after ...

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Bollocks! Income Tax is personal and the revenue should be applied to the people. Because in terms of both Education and Healthcare, it is we-the-people that benefit most!

Namely in the form of a low-cost National Healthcare Service (that Uncle Sam has only partially) and nearly-free Tertiary Education (that exists fully in Europe but only partially in the US)!

Those are the two-most urgent practical-necessities of America today and tomorrow and long after ...

No, we really don’t benefit from income taxes. Especially not in the US where nearly all federal government spending is basically waste.

Federal spending is largely the reason American schools are so terrible, and specifically why school lunches suck. Income taxes largely benefit the wealthy and strip the working classes of their income.

The one giant benefit of America’s education system is going to university is expensive. We just need to ban loans and government grants and it will be better. The only reason to provide secondary education to midwits is to create overproduction of elites.

 

[Lafayette]

No, we really don’t benefit from income taxes. Especially not in the US where nearly all federal government spending is basically waste.

Blah, blah, blah - and more blah!

Totally devoid of any consequence whatsoever given the fact that without government spending Uncle Sam would have gone down the tubes long, long ago - and today we'd be otherwise conversing in German ... !

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Blah, blah, blah - and more blah!

Totally devoid of any consequence whatsoever given the fact that without government spending Uncle Sam would have gone down the tubes long, long ago - and today we'd be conversing in German ... !

Maybe YOU would be conversing in German. Hitler was never any real threat to the United States. This country is unconquerable and was in 1939.

 

[bave]

Welcome to America, sucker! Where the Top-20% GET MOST OF THE WEALTH! And the Bottom 20% get diddly-shat ... !

Yea, you fail to mention that the US has the most progressive tax code on the planet and at the same time has the highest median household income of any major country.

Tough break, right?

 

[danielpalos]

Capitalism doesn't exist in anarchy, never has, never will.

Socialism, communism, and all the other ideologies you believe in will always fail because of basic human nature. People will always take the easiest path.

You have some misguided deranged view that paying everyone to stay home is akin to "equal protection under the law". It's not. You are trying to pawn off some half baked stoner idea that you can force a minority of tax payers to let lazy scumbags continue to be lazy scumbags forever.

Grow.Up.

You first. AnCap doesn't exist is what you are admitting. Government is socialism and FDR proved what it can do.

 

[danielpalos]

Socialism is not bailing out anything anywhere. It's been dead ever since Communist Russia closed its doors. And reopened them under the "crook" presently leading the country who finagled his reelection!

(See a doctor! You are hearing things ... !)

You first. Your right-wing fantasy is affecting your reason.

I showed you how Government is socialism. Your ad hominems are worthless for argumentation purposes.

Thanks for playing.