Gov Schawarzenegger to veto Gay Marriage Bill

[GPS_Flex]

What gives the government or the people it governs the right to tell people who they can or cannot marry?

Try marrying your mother in any state and tell us how it works out.

The minority should not have to wait for the majority to overcome it's bigotry to get equal rights, the government should work to give the minority equal rights regardless of what the majority wants.

Your sexual preference doesn’t qualify as a minority. Get a clue.

If we allowed the majority to decide it would have been much longer for segregation to end, slavery to end, women to get the right to vote, and interracial marriages being legal.

History was never your strongest subject was it Yami?

Being probably the only one from California here, let me tell you that the majority, not vast, supports it.

I’m from California and I know for a fact that the majority of Californians oppose gay marriage.

I have lived in California all my life and I know a tad bit about it. In the past 5 or so years, the state has really changed more to the liberal side on the way of affording rights, especially to gays and this means that what was once a 40% minority is now a 55-60% majority.

I too have lived in California all my life and I assure you that you don’t know more about it than me. Your numbers are crap and we both know it. Appointing yourself the ultimate authority on California is rather arrogant if you ask me. I have lived in every major metropolis in this state and currently live in the state’s capitol, Sacramento.

So, just to reiterate-they may have voted one way, but then they flip-flopped and voted in congress people who were pro-equality. That was what I was saying-am I wrong in that regard? And since I will assume that I am not-it logically follows that since they voted thsoe people in, they want those people to take their place in the democratic process and vote as their...proxy in important issues to represent their views (which is the way a representative democracy works, you know?).

Interesting ShamMol. I suppose the fact that the same people voted in the Governor is irrelevant and shouldn’t be considered in the same context because…well because…why?

Governor vetoes bill, but people elected everyone but governor to think for them, even though governor vetoes bill because last popular vote said people don’t want said bill? Is that how it works in California SamMol? Get a clue!

The Governor is a branch of government. If people in California wanted gay marriages legal, they would have elected a Governor who wouldn’t veto the bill, right?

I love the point someone else made about how you Democrats think every vote should count and how you throw the word “disenfranchised” around like it is a federal crime if some dipstick who is too stupid too figure out a voting ballot loses his vote for being an utter moron, but as soon as the government does anything to advance gay rights, you think it’s a good thing that the majority of people don’t get to choose. How two faced and indecisive can you liberals be? Do you want every vote to count or do you want more enlightened people to decide for us? If you want every vote to count, why do you have a problem with the Governor’s veto?

 

[Navy Pride]

Phony liberal media polls...not sure what you're talking about.

And I can see why you would be tickled if the president got a descriminating law passed. Maybe while he's at it, he can get rid of that whole "equal rights" thing. :roll:

You call it that I don't.........I call it protecting the sanctity of marriage..we have a difference of opinion.......Thank you for at least not calling me a bigot or a homophobe because we don't agree......

I am being discriminated too..i can't marry my sister just like a gay man can not marry another man......we both have the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex...........Militant gays and liberals want a special right........

[Phony liberal media polls...not sure what you're talking about./QUOTE]

again the left wing media polls that showed that republicans would lose seats in the house and the senate in 2002 and 2004 and the one that showed President Bush with an approval rating in the mid forties in 2004 and we know what happened in all those situations........

The polls are usually just a bunch of wishful thinking by a very liberal media.......

 

[Kelzie]

Kelzie the Homosexual Agenda operative writes; "They're not deviants. It is a normal behavior."

Perhaps an English language lesson is needed by you: Normal: according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b : conforming to a type, standard, or regular pattern.

Yeah. Thanks for backing me up. Regular pattern? As in the fact that there has been homosexuals for the entire history of man. Oh wait. Was that supposed to support your point? Sucks for you.

Although most homosexuals parrot the 10% lie created by homosexual political extremists when they lied about Kinsey's 4% finding since discredited by Kinsey himself to a much lower percentage, it would seem that there is not a credible homosexual argument that they make up as much as 40% of the population, therefore, by very definition, homosexuality is abnormal AND deviant. Leave it to you to claim homosexuality is normal!

Where in the world did you get 40%? I wonder, if you took the entire population of the world, and looked at the different races, how many people would be caucasian. Bet it's not the majority. Are you prepared to say that being white is abnormal?

Then she goes ont to use The Homosexual Agneda strategy technique they call "jamming": "But I suppose you don't really care about sych inconsequencial things like that on your little crusade to descriminate against somebody."

Notice how she uses the anti-religious term "crusade" just like the IslamoFascists use? Notice also how she interjects the Homosexual
Agenda buzzword tactic "discrimnation"?

What's with the use of the third person? Are you making a documentary or something?

"Look now as the master debator slowly shreds her opponent's argument"

Duly noted. What's your point? Or were you helping out all the people who didn't read my post by repeating what I said?

She continues on with her scripted Homosexual Agenda tactic by trying to equate homosexual deviancy with some immutable physical characteristic like being born negro....that is right out of The Homosexual Agenda....

Dude. It's genetic. Get over it. It's time to move on, and pick up a new hobby. Maybe needle point? I've posted the study time and time again. Go look for it.

She continues: "Sure. Much like America was a democracy when black people and women couldn't vote. Like someone famous said (Jefferson maybe) "democracy is the tyranny of the majority over the minority" or something to that effect."


Yeah, we discriminate against zoophiles, pedophiles, necrophiles, polygamists, coprophiles, all of which use your exact same argument, although I am sure that you think that of all the sexual deviancies, only your particualr deviancy of homosexuality gets to make those arguments. How convenient!

Two consenting adults!!! Why is this hard for you? Let me help you out:

zoophiles: one adult, one animal
pedophiles: one adult, one child
necrophiles: one adult, one dead body
polygamists: multiple adults

See how this works?

She adds; " don't think it's funny at all. In fact, I'm sure there was a large number of people like that when women were trying to get equal rights.
"

Notice how she repeats the equal rights nonsense? Right back to the scripted Homosexual Agenda she goes! hey, pedophiles want equal rights too! What is wrong with a 6 year old girl loving a 80 year old fat man?! Or a Motehr marrying her son! Right?! Opposing that would be bigoted, mean spritied, wrong hgeaded and INTOLERANT! lol

See above for pedophiles. Mother and son? It's called incest. As in inbreeding. As in detremental to any of their offspring.

As to your false claim that allotehr sexual behaviors hurt one participant, how does necrophilia hurt the piece of excrement? Or how does the dog who chases after his female human partner hurt her? Do you really think in light of the male homosexual AIDs epidemic that homosexuality doesn't hurt its practioners?!

Oh look at you. Getting your philias mixed up? I understand it's hard to keep track of them. I believe you are thinking of coprophilia. Once again, TWO CONSENTING ADULTS. And AIDS hurts all people who don't practice safe sax.

She finishes; "Seriously, I don't know where one gets this "Homosexual Agenda", but I'd really like a copy. Looks like a funny read. And about as factual as Harry Potter."


This is the Homosexual Agenda tactic called "camp". The Homosexual Agenda is a propaganda strategy campaign written by two homosexuals, Marshal Kirk and Hunter Madsen in a book called "After the Ball.

Really? Hot damn, maybe I should have co-authored it sense I evidently am using all their techniques.

Kirk is a researcher in neuropsychiatry. Hunter Madsen received a doctorate in Politics from Harvard in 1985 and is an expert on public persuasion tactics and social marketing, who has designed commercial advertising on Madison Avenue and served as a consultant to homosexual media campaigns across the country, and appears frequently on national media as an advocate for homosexual special rights.

They sound like smart guys. It was nice of them to write a book for all they obsessed gay bashers out there to waste their time pouring over, saying "see!! I knew I was right!! It's all a big conspiracy!". Bet they're getting a big chuckle out of it. I know I am.

The homosexual authors called for homosexuals to repackage themselves as mainstream citizens demanding equal treatment, rather than as a promiscuous sexual minority seeking greater opportunity and influence. In the late ‘80s issued a call for homosexual activists to adopt "carefully calculated public relations propaganda." An ADMISSION TO USING PROPAGANDA!

Wow, sounds like a crazy book. You mean they were actually advocating equal treatment for homosexuals?!?! Well that's just nuts.

Writing just as the AIDS crisis hit its greatest momentum, the authors saw this male homosexual disease as an opportunity to change the public mind. "As cynical as it may seem, AIDS gives us a chance, however brief, to establish ourselves as a victimized minority legitimately deserving of America's special protection and care," they wrote.

Kelzie, your tactics read right out of this Homosexual Agenda.....including your use of the "jamming" tactic: Their strategy came dressed up in marketing jargon: “Desensitize, jam and convert.” As it turns out, though, you could use one word to summarize all those others: manipulation:

Actually, more straight people have AIDS now. Sooo...nice theory though!

Actually, the word I would use to describe my tactics is:

debating.

 

[InDefenseofSanity]

Kelzie, like a typical homosexual agenda operative makes the scripted homosexual AIDs extremist claim that more heterosexuals have AIDs.....sorta like claiming that males are more likely to sustain Professional National Football League injuries than females.....this is a half truth example just like she used, both claims deliberately fail to adjust for a limited numerical representation by the minority group. kelzie fails to mention that those that self idnetify as more or less exclusively homosexual throughout their lives have gross numbers about 98 times less then heterosexuals.

How expediant! Using that homosexual AIDS extremist propaganda technique designed to fearmonger and extort $ out of heterosexuals and deflect the stigma of engaging in a behavior and being a member of a sexual deviancy group that likely results in the aquistion of a hideous, always fatal wasting disease, , you could rightly state that female are more likely to need a Cesarean section during childbirth than males!

Kelzie, lets have some fun here......you earlier claimed that all the sexual paraphilias cannot compare or be the equivalent of homosexuality because homosexuality is sex between two consenting adults of the same sex. Is that our corect understanding of your claim? This is gonna be fun.....

 

[Kelzie]

Kelzie, like a typical homosexual agenda operative makes the scripted homosexual AIDs extremist claim that more heterosexuals have AIDs.....sorta like claiming that males are more likely to sustain Professional National Football League injuries than females.....this is a half truth example just like she used, both claims deliberately fail to adjust for a limited numerical representation by the minority group. kelzie fails to mention that those that self idnetify as more or less exclusively homosexual throughout their lives have gross numbers about 98 times less then heterosexuals.

You know what this sounds like to me? "Blah blah homosexual agenda blah blah I was wrong and don't want to admit it"

So what about the fact that the number of gay people with AIDS has remained fairly stable over the last couple of years, but the number of straight people with AIDS has been increasing?

Wait, I got this one for you:

"Notice how Kelzie uses the blatant homosexual agenda tactit of providing evidence to back up her points."

How expediant!

Kelzie, lets have some fun here......you earlier claimed that all the sexual paraphilias cannot compare or be the equivalent of homosexuality because homosexuality is sex between two consenting adults of the same sex. Is that our corect understanding of your claim? This is gonna be fun.....

Sure knock yourself out. Although I would have to add that it could not be damaging in any way to either of them.

 

[GPS_Flex]

I suppose we all agree then…Arnold did the right thing!

Now you can go on arguing the morality of homodexuality.

 

[Kelzie]

I suppose we all agree then…Arnold did the right thing!

Now you can go on arguing the morality of homodexuality.

Who's this we that you refer to?

Descrimination is never right, even if the majority agree with it.

 

[GPS_Flex]

I disagree. We all discriminate every day in everything we do. Do you deny this? If you do, you discriminated.

 

[Kelzie]

I disagree. We all discriminate every day in everything we do. Do you deny this? If you do, you discriminated.

However, there are different forms of descrimination, as I sure you are aware of. I don't like brussel sprouts. That's descrimination, and there's nothing wrong with it.

But some types of descrimination, like on the basis of sex, race, or sexual preference is wrong and you know it. Enough splitting hairs, huh?

 

[InDefenseofSanity]

Arnold definately did the right thing, and the peopel voted for him to do the right thing.

kelzie the homosexual agenda operative said this; "So what about the fact that the number of gay people with AIDS has remained fairly stable over the last couple of years, but the number of straight people with AIDS has been increasing?"

This is the tactic known as "the fastest rising" lie. The CDC, which has publically admitted exaggerating the hetero HIV risk, breaks down seroconversion rates based upon risk group. Their reports are contained in their Daily AIDS Summaries" and AIDS Surveillance Reports. If you look at theri charts, each and ever one of them, you will see, EVEN BEFORE YOU ADJUST FOR NUMERICAL REPRESENATION DISPARITIES, that most HIV and AIDS is amongst male homosexuals.

Homosexual AIDS extremists like Kelzie know this, so ACT UP!, a homosexual fascist organization whose founder admitted being a drug crazed Nazi loving Mein Kampf tactic following freak created these slogans to deflect the truth that AIDS is primarily a male homosexual disease; "Heterosexuals are the fastest rising", "Young people are the fastest rising", Young people are the fastest rising" ad nauseum. They don't tell you that the vector amongst heterosexuals is overwhelmingly from IVDA, they don't admit that the young people they are referring to is male homosexuals, they don't tell you that the women are IVDA's...but hey, that is what Mein Kampf is all about!

kelzie admits she claimed that homosexuality is structly limited to two consenting adults...

Kelzie, thank goodness you admit there are no non-adult homosexuals, because they are not adults. I wonder what homosexual underage child recruitment groups like "OUTPROUD!" is all about then! lol.....And I guess when male homosexuals give their sex perversion patners fistula, rectal fissure, and rectal prolapse from fisting and footing, well, since they harmed one of the partners, I guess when those two male homosexuals engaged in same sex sex, they weren't really engaging in homosexuality according to Kelzie.....and I guess all the male homosexuals who have engaged in mass murder via all the HIV they have vectored to eachother, I guess when they were buggering eachother, that wasn't homosexualiuty either, because they were hurting eachother, and according to Kelzie, homosexuality is only about non-damaging sex between two consenting adults......funny how the dictionary doesn't say that...but hey, apparently as a homosexual herself, Kelzie gets to make up and change the rules and the language as she goes!

Thank goodness our governator has stood up to these intolerant, bigoted, hate filled, mean sprited, wrong headed, discriminatory, christian hating, heterophobic homosexist liars and their campaign of deception, hatred, bigotry and fascism.

 

[GPS_Flex]

Who's this we that you refer to?

If you don’t know who I refer to, why are you posting to this thread?

 

[taxpayer]

Well, I'm not gay but what will happen to you and me if a man wants to marry another man or woman a woman???
Will we become gay if they do? Is it catchy? Will we catch it if they marry? Will they come into our house and kiss each other ???
Its our Gov causing all the trouble. There are laws stating that you have to be married or a relative to make life threatning decisions for someone else. There is a box to check on your income tax that indicates if your married or not, pertaining to maybe a savings on your income tax or whatever. ETC.
Maybe our Gov needs to change, married, to partners or whatever or keep marriage and make them LEGAL partners???
I just don't see what difference it woud make to us if they got married or partnered. They alwready live together so that will not change.
Business' that offer health care would save money because instead of paying two plans for each of them they could now pay the cheaper family plan (compared to two seperate plans) for them.

Is there something that I am missing here that them marrying will change our life style OR us???
Let me know if I missed something on this. And NOT about religion, thats a seperate issue, just legal wise.

 

[Kelzie]

If you don’t know who I refer to, why are you posting to this thread?

Hey Mr. Smarty Pants, you said "we all agree". Since "we" obviously don't agree, I wondered who it was that you were actually talking about. No need to get flippant on me.

 

[GPS_Flex]

But some types of descrimination, like on the basis of sex, race, or sexual preference is wrong and you know it.

Discrimination on the basis of sex, race, or sexual preference is always going to be a fact of life. You’ll need to be more specific if you want me to say such things are wrong.

 

[GPS_Flex]

Hey Mr. Smarty Pants, you said "we all agree". Since "we" obviously don't agree, I wondered who it was that you were actually talking about. No need to get flippant on me.

Read the title of this thread and then tell me I’m flippant. No need to get arrogant because you’re ignorant to the original topic.

 

[Kelzie]

kelzie the homosexual agenda operative said this; "So what about the fact that the number of gay people with AIDS has remained fairly stable over the last couple of years, but the number of straight people with AIDS has been increasing?"

This is the tactic known as "the fastest rising" lie. The CDC, which has publically admitted exaggerating the hetero HIV risk, breaks down seroconversion rates based upon risk group. Their reports are contained in their Daily AIDS Summaries" and AIDS Surveillance Reports. If you look at theri charts, each and ever one of them, you will see, EVEN BEFORE YOU ADJUST FOR NUMERICAL REPRESENATION DISPARITIES, that most HIV and AIDS is amongst male homosexuals.

Ha! I knew there was a tactic for providing evidence.

"But around 3,400 people were diagnosed as HIV positive in the year 2000, an increase on previous years reflecting a general rise in the number of sexually-transmitted diseases. For the second year running the numbers of those infected with the virus through heterosexual relationships was larger than the number of infections acquired by sex between men." source

You know what this means don't you? The number of hetero HIV cases is rising faster than homo HIV cases.

Homosexual AIDS extremists like Kelzie know this, so ACT UP!, a homosexual fascist organization whose founder admitted being a drug crazed Nazi loving Mein Kampf tactic following freak created these slogans to deflect the truth that AIDS is primarily a male homosexual disease; "Heterosexuals are the fastest rising", "Young people are the fastest rising", Young people are the fastest rising" ad nauseum. They don't tell you that the vector amongst heterosexuals is overwhelmingly from IVDA, they don't admit that the young people they are referring to is male homosexuals, they don't tell you that the women are IVDA's...but hey, that is what Mein Kampf is all about!

Are you trying to say there is some sort of homosexual-Nazi-AIDS conspiracy going on?

I'm just going to take one giant step back, than you can continue with your "theory"

 

[GPS_Flex]

I have a problem with a person’s sexuality being a government issue. Don’t you?

 

[Kelzie]

Read the title of this thread and then tell me I’m flippant. No need to get arrogant because you’re ignorant to the original topic.

How am I being arrogant. You said:

I suppose we all agree then…Arnold did the right thing!

If you had read ANY of this thead, you would know that we obviously don't all agree.

So, any idea on who this "we" was supposed to refer to yet?

 

[Kelzie]

Discrimination on the basis of sex, race, or sexual preference is always going to be a fact of life. You’ll need to be more specific if you want me to say such things are wrong.

So if it's always a fact of life, does that mean we should not try to fight it when we can?

Murder is always going to be a fact of life. You can still say it's wrong without being more specific.

Unless of course you are just twisting in the wind...

 

[InDefenseofSanity]

Check this out readers; I demolish Kelzies half truth tactic where she uses total number of heterosexuals and homosexuals with HIV instead of adjusting for the rarity of homosexuals relative to the total numbers of heterosexuals, and what does she do?! She ignores being caught and goes right back to the half-truth technique!: "... For the second year running the numbers of those infected with the virus through heterosexual relationships was larger than the number of infections acquired by sex between men." source".

Hey Kelzie, I have news for you, more heterosexuals are killed in car accidents than homosexuals every year too! Guess what?! There are about 98 times more heterosexuals than homosexuals! They didn't call it GRIDS (gay related immune deficiancy syndrome) for nothing!
Ignoring the CDC Daily AIDS Summaries obvious conclusions as well as their HIV Surveillance Reports makes you, well, ignorant!

 

[YamiB.]

Your sexual preference doesn’t qualify as a minority. Get a clue.

How can you say they're not a minority? I don't remember homosexuality expanding so much that it changed to the majority.

If you're trying to say it in the sense of race and sex. Then I would ask how you are more qualified to than the APA.

History was never your strongest subject was it Yami?

Please enlighten me on my historical mistake.

Yeah, we discriminate against zoophiles, pedophiles, necrophiles, polygamists, coprophiles, all of which use your exact same argument, although I am sure that you think that of all the sexual deviancies, only your particualr deviancy of homosexuality gets to make those arguments. How convenient!

Zoophiles are rapists once they start their action, as animals cannot consent.
Pedophiles are rapists once they start their action, as animals cannot consent.
Necrophiles are having sex with a body they have no right to unless they received consent ahead of time.
I see nothing wrong with polygamy.
What laws deny equal treatment to coprophiles?

When is it going to dawn on you that the huge majority of the American people believe that marriage should remain as between a man and a woman.........

When will it dawn on you that being the majority does not give them the right to make it so that homosexuals are not given equality? It didn’t last when the majority tried with blacks and women. Why would this be different?

Now notice that he referred to those who oppose sexual perverts from being able to marry based upon their sexual perversion as "bigots"?

I do not see how people who deny equal treatment to a group without any valid reasons is not guilty of bigotry.

 

[Kelzie]

Check this out readers; I demolish Kelzies halft truth tactic where she uses total number of heterosexuals and homosexuals with HIV instead of adjusting for the rarity of homosexuals relative to the total numbers of heterosexuals, and what does she do?! She ignores being caught and goes right back to the half-truth technique!: "... For the second year running the numbers of those infected with the virus through heterosexual relationships was larger than the number of infections acquired by sex between men." source".

Hey Kelzie, I have news for you, more heterosexuals are killed in car accidents than homosexuals every year too! Guess what?! There are about 98 times more heterosexuals than homosexuals!

I believe that is the first time that you have actually addressed me. Logic finally getting to ya?

I realize that there are more hetro people in the population, thankyouverymuch. And I never used the raw numbers. I said that the RATE of HIV is increasing more for heteros than it is for homos. Do you get it? If 50 homos have HIV in 1998, and 25 heteros have it, then in 1999, 51 homos have it and 47 heteros, the increase rate for the hetero population is HIGHER than the increase for the homo population.

 

[InDefenseofSanity]

Re: Gov Schawarzenegger to veto Homo Marriage Bill

Kelzies' homosexual AIDS extremist lie claiming heterosexuals are the fastest rising is gutted by the current full tabulation by Centers for Disease Control, which unebuttably shows male homosexuals are not only the overwhelming HIV group even when not adjusted for how rare they are, but they are also the fastest rising compared to heterosexual contact. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/2003SurveillanceReport/table1.htm

I mean, contrast that with kelzie the homosexual agenda operative, in trying to bolster her homosexual AIDs extremists claim that heterosexuals arre the fastest rising, she cites a news article that lists no citation whatsoever, and doesn't even claim heterosexuals are the fastest rising. Let's see4, a direct CDC stat verses a new article.....hmmmm gee gang, its a real toss up! lol

Now you see why we need people like the governator and the people to stop these fascist, heterophobic liars?

 

[GPS_Flex]

If you had read ANY of this thead, you would know that we obviously don't all agree.

I read all of this thread Kelzie, and you aren’t very impressive thus far because all you do is argue from a “gays should be allowed to live” position without tackling the tougher issues the topic originally addressed.

If you want to be a leach and advocate your preferred lifestyle rather that argue an issue, be a leach. I have no problem with gay people being gay.

If you want to talk about the topic of this thread (no you and your few arguments aren’t the topic) feel free to engage. If you want to argue the morality of homosexuality, I think we have a few threads for that and you need to take your arguments there.

If you want to talk about Arnold and whether he made the right choice, hey, that’s what this thread is about.

 

[Schweddy]

I have to admit, this is an interesting thread.

On one hand, folks are saying that gay marriage is an individual choice and govt should not be involved. Period. Regardless of the envelope that could be opened, the subject is very direct - 2 humans.

On the other, folks are saying the people's vote a short time ago (5 years) should set the precedent.

The double talk among the folks for gay marriage is wonderfully ironic.
It is ironic because if the shoe was on the other foot - it would indeed matter what the masses have voted on. Every vote counts was slammed through my neurons for months.

The exception of course is something that core belief persuades instead of logic and consistency. Which we are all painfully guilty of.