Gov. Jerry Brown signs bill to increase access to abortions [W:148]

[year2late]

I can only imagine what it is like for the one who gave their baby away left always wondering. After all, that baby was part of them.
And when women choose abortion that too means part of them they have chosen to kill. Yes unwanted pregnancy is difficult any way you look at it. But it doesn't explain in this day in age with so many means of birth control available for the asking that so many women are ending up in this predicament.

It depends on what your definition of "baby is". Most of the abortions are done at a very early stage. Individually, I would never have an abortion unless my life was in danger .

I think you hit on a major issue. "Women ending up in this predicament". If you listen to Planned Parenthood, even with the woman using long term birth control, condoms are needed. Firstly - due to BC failure, second disease transmission. What do you think the actual rate of men (who do not want to impregnate) wearing condoms. When we talk of chastity pledges and such, when do we speak to the boys remaining virgins?


There is so much misinformation out there - on this website, I have seen a few people actually refer to the morning after pill (plan B) as an abortion pill. So when there is known birth control failure - idiots out there try to get unsuspecting women to believe it is inducing an abortion.

 

[Scrabaholic]

As I read the article it spoke of abortions performed in the first trimester using the sucking vacuum method. The first trimester includes the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. In the twelfth week of pregnancy, the forming baby has its own heart pumping its own blood, its body is formed down to its fingers and toes. Its kidneys are working, nails on its fingers and toes are forming and its brain continues to develop. It is the twelfth week that the baby's vocal cords develop. I wonder if this little creature then cries out when it is being sucked out of its mother's womb before being placed in a bag labeled medical waste.

No, it doesn't. It cannot feel anything at that gestational stage and has no awareness.

BTW, that cow in your freezer had a beating heart and DID feel pain. It may have been cut open while still alive if the stunning bolt did not work or missed.

 

[Scrabaholic]

The very title of that article is a lie.

Is it safer for me to shoot you in the head with a handgun, or to cut your throat with a knife?

It will never be honest nor ethical to describe as “safe”, a procedure which needlessly and unjustly takes a human life.

:roll: Evidently, you did not read my post.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

They've also abandoned "safe", since they don't trust NPs to do anything else without supervision from a doctor.

“Safe” was always a lie, and they knew it.

A procedure which, when successful, always results in the tragic death of an innocent can never honestly be described as “safe”.

 

[Scrabaholic]

They've also abandoned "safe", since they don't trust NPs to do anything else without supervision from a doctor.

As I posted earlier, abortions done by an NP are just as safe for the woman as those done by a doctor.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

If anything we should be punishing the people that do this, not expanding it.

Should we be punished if we killed a mosquito that latched onto us and started taking our body resources without our conscious consent like the unborn do?

 

[vesper]

It depends on what your definition of "baby is". Most of the abortions are done at a very early stage. Individually, I would never have an abortion unless my life was in danger .

I think you hit on a major issue. "Women ending up in this predicament". If you listen to Planned Parenthood, even with the woman using long term birth control, condoms are needed. Firstly - due to BC failure, second disease transmission. What do you think the actual rate of men (who do not want to impregnate) wearing condoms. When we talk of chastity pledges and such, when do we speak to the boys remaining virgins?


There is so much misinformation out there - on this website, I have seen a few people actually refer to the morning after pill (plan B) as an abortion pill. So when there is known birth control failure - idiots out there try to get unsuspecting women to believe it is inducing an abortion.

I guess for me it boils down to the overwhelming number of women who engage in casual sex and know they are the one that will be left dealing with a pregnancy and don't protect themselves. It's insane reckless behavior. In this day in age there is no justification for it. Not with all the education, readily available birth control.

 

[vesper]

No, it doesn't. It cannot feel anything at that gestational stage and has no awareness.

BTW, that cow in your freezer had a beating heart and DID feel pain. It may have been cut open while still alive if the stunning bolt did not work or missed.

That was reported by a NARAL study almost 10 years ago but today with the wonderful world of technology the last few years they are reporting by 9 weeks from conception, all the structures necessary for pain sensation are functioning. Here are some other things about the study of a fetus at 12 weeks have learned..
•At 4 weeks from conception, a baby's eye, ear, and respiratory systems begin to form.
•Thumbsucking has been documented at 7 weeks from conception.
•At 8 weeks from conception, a baby's heartbeat can be detected by ultrasonic stethoscope.
•By 9 weeks from conception, a baby is able to bend her fingers around an object in her hand.
•By 11 to 12 weeks from conception, the baby is breathing fluid steadily and continues to do so until birth.
•By 11 weeks from conception, a baby can swallow.

That sure is a far cry from the lie women were told in the 60's through the 90's that a twelve week fetus was just a blob of cells.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

That was reported by a NARAL study almost 10 years ago but today with the wonderful world of technology the last few years they are reporting by 9 weeks from conception, all the structures necessary for pain sensation are functioning. Her are some other things about the study of a fetus at 12 weeks have learned..
•At 4 weeks from conception, a baby's eye, ear, and respiratory systems begin to form.
•Thumbsucking has been documented at 7 weeks from conception.
•At 8 weeks from conception, a baby's heartbeat can be detected by ultrasonic stethoscope.
•By 9 weeks from conception, a baby is able to bend her fingers around an object in her hand.
•By 11 to 12 weeks from conception, the baby is breathing fluid steadily and continues to do so until birth.
•By 11 weeks from conception, a baby can swallow.

That sure is a far cry from the lie women were told in the 60's through the 90's that a twelve week fetus was just a blob of cells.

And all this matters how?

I agree though that calling a unborn human 12 weeks into gestation a ''blob of cells'' is a dishonest claim.

 

[vesper]

And all this matters how?

I agree though that calling a unborn human 12 weeks into gestation a ''blob of cells'' is a dishonest claim.

Just making a point that those who study the formation of the unborn child now claim by 9 weeks everything is functioning that can allow them to feel pain.

I guess none of this matters to the one who believes abortion is a mother's right.

 

[francois60]

Actually in 2012 18 states and DC allowed NPs to diagnose, treat,and perscripe meds.


read more:

Health Policy Briefs

But are they the states that allow NPs to perform abortions? I also looked at a list, although I admit it could be outdated, but I did not see California.

 

[digsbe]

Should we be punished if we killed a mosquito that latched onto us and started taking our body resources without our conscious consent like the unborn do?

A mosquito is not a human. But then again do you support laws that prevent you from aspirating puppies or kittens? Is that cruel and illegal?

 

[francois60]

I hope California will added to the 18 states that already allow NPs to treat , diagnose and prescribe meds to patients.

That's my point. IF they can't be trusted to treat a cold in California, why can they be trusted to perform abortions? It sounds like California is saying that NPs can't be trusted, but it's worth the risk to increase access to abortion.

 

[francois60]

As I posted earlier, abortions done by an NP are just as safe for the woman as those done by a doctor.

And as I said, abortion, while safe(at least early abortions), are not THE safest procedure around, such that it would be the ONE thing they could be trusted to do. What this law basically does is tell NPs they can set up an abortion clinic, and only an abortion clinic, in California.

 

[Hard Truth]

I thought surely someone would've posted this news yesterday, but since nobody else has:

SACRAMENTO – Giving California women more access to abortion, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill Wednesday that allows nurse practitioners and certain other non-physicians to perform the procedure during the first trimester of pregnancy.

…Neither Brown nor his staff would comment on his acceptance of the bill, which extends the authority to perform abortions by vacuum aspiration to nurse practitioners, certified nurse-midwives and physicians' assistants.

The measure requires the non-physicians to complete specified training and comply with standardized medical protocols for the non-surgical procedure.

Gov. Jerry Brown signs bill to increase access to abortions - latimes.com

This is a good thing, especially for the rural poor who lack easy access to all kinds of medical care.

 

[digsbe]

I disagree . They have not abondoned safe , and many states do trust NPs to treat, diagnose , and prescribe meds to patients.

Oregon, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Montana, do allow NPs to treat, diagnose, and prescribe meds to patients.

I hope California will added to the 18 states that already allow NPs to treat , diagnose and prescribe meds to patients.

To my knowledge NPs and PAs can write prescriptions and treat conditions in nearly all states. However, in most states they cannot do so independently and must be under a practice agreement with a supervising physician.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1. A mosquito is not a human.

2. But then again do you support laws that prevent you from aspirating puppies or kittens? Is that cruel and illegal?

1. Yup just like the mosquito is a mosquito and a leach is a leach. The species difference doesn't matter since we kill the two because they take resources out of our body without our continued conscious consent like the unborn human does.

2. Yeah I could support such laws since no matter how many puppies, kittens or unborn humans you kill, there will always be a lot of them since all three are extremely common and per the law of supply of demand can be assigned low value because of that.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

1. Just making a point that those who study the formation of the unborn child now claim by 9 weeks everything is functioning that can allow them to feel pain.

2. I guess none of this matters to the one who believes abortion is a mother's right.

1. During the first six months of pregnancy the brain is not connected to the spinal cord for the pain signals to reach the brain. After six months when the brain and the spinal cord are connected it can be possible for pain signals to reach the brain. There is of course a way for abortion to be performed pass the six month that can get around the pain signaling to the brain.

2. Yeah it shouldn't because there are plenty of entities on the planet that are sentient and have no right to life as well.

 

[Scrabaholic]

I guess for me it boils down to the overwhelming number of women who engage in casual sex and know they are the one that will be left dealing with a pregnancy and don't protect themselves. It's insane reckless behavior. In this day in age there is no justification for it. Not with all the education, readily available birth control.

Are you aware that the majority of women who abort are in a committed/long term relationship?

 

[Scrabaholic]

That was reported by a NARAL study almost 10 years ago but today with the wonderful world of technology the last few years they are reporting by 9 weeks from conception, all the structures necessary for pain sensation are functioning.

Bovine excrement.

Pain is an emotional and psychological experience that requires conscious recognition of a noxious stimulus. Consequently, the capacity for conscious perception of pain can arise only after thalamocortical pathways begin to function, which may occur in the third trimester around 29 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, based on the limited data available. Small-scale histological studies of human fetuses have found that thalamocortical fibers begin to form between 23 and 30 weeks’ gestational age, but these studies did not specifically examine thalamocortical pathways active in pain perception.

While the presence of thalamocortical fibers is necessary for pain perception, their mere presence is insufficient—this pathway must also be functional. It has been proposed that transient, functional thalamocortical circuits may form via subplate neurons around midgestation, but no human study has demonstrated this early functionality. Instead, constant SEPs appear at 29 weeks’ PCA, and EEG patterns denoting wakefulness appear around 30 weeks’ PCA. Both of these tests of cortical function suggest that conscious perception of pain does not begin before the third trimester. Cutaneous withdrawal reflexes and hormonal stress responses present earlier in development are not explicit or sufficient evidence of pain perception because they are not specific to noxious stimuli and are not cortically mediated.

JAMA Network | JAMA | Fetal Pain:  A Systematic Multidisciplinary Review of the Evidence

Here are some other things about the study of a fetus at 12 weeks have learned..
•At 4 weeks from conception, a baby's eye, ear, and respiratory systems begin to form.
•Thumbsucking has been documented at 7 weeks from conception.
•At 8 weeks from conception, a baby's heartbeat can be detected by ultrasonic stethoscope.
•By 9 weeks from conception, a baby is able to bend her fingers around an object in her hand.
•By 11 to 12 weeks from conception, the baby is breathing fluid steadily and continues to do so until birth.
•By 11 weeks from conception, a baby can swallow.

That sure is a far cry from the lie women were told in the 60's through the 90's that a twelve week fetus was just a blob of cells.

This has zero bearing on whether a woman should be able to abort or not. That cow in your freezer had a beating heart, could see, hear, breathe and swallow - and could feel the pain of being sliced open if the stun bolt did not work or work effectively enough.

 

[Scrabaholic]

I agree though that calling a unborn human 12 weeks into gestation a ''blob of cells'' is a dishonest claim.

Which I have never, ever done.

 

[Scrabaholic]

And as I said, abortion, while safe(at least early abortions), are not THE safest procedure around, such that it would be the ONE thing they could be trusted to do. What this law basically does is tell NPs they can set up an abortion clinic, and only an abortion clinic, in California.

They are safer than appendectomy.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

They are safer than appendectomy.

The vast majority of appendectomies do not result in anyone dying.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

Which I have never, ever done.

I know you haven't.

Calling it a 'blob of cells'' would be an accurate claim though maybe for a 10 cell human

 

[minnie616]

But are they the states that allow NPs to perform abortions? I also looked at a list, although I admit it could be outdated, but I did not see California.

Oregon, New Hampshire, Vermont and Montana are among the 18 states that allow trained NPs to preform abortions, and also allow NPs to diagnose, treat and prescribe prescriptions . California is not listed but hopefully it will be soon if not already.