GOP senators steer clear of Trump as rift deepens

[Craig234]

Yeah - but it was a crappy thing to say about her fellow Americans, especially given she was a Presidential candidate.

It was quite accurate, and she said it to a private audience. Ya, she should have been more careful, but come on, trump said what 1000 worse things? Where's the 1000 times worry about his behavior? (Not saying you're a fan of trump, but I think it's a mountain out of a molehill on Hillary).

 

[Peacenik]

Yeah - but it was a crappy thing to say about her fellow Americans, especially given she was a Presidential candidate.

It was spot on. I'm glad she said it like it is.

 

[Chomsky]

IMHO, Trump is on the verge of becoming his own worst enemy - or snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. There isn't another Republican out there that can energize the right like Trump, but he can be a massive dickhead, and, obviously, a poor loser. My biggest concern no is that the Republican hierarchy is more concerned about getting back to the "good ol' boy network" days - even if they become a permanent minority. McConnell is making noises that way.

ETA: Victor Davis Hanson wrote a book The Case For Trump where he compared Trump to the Alan Ladd character in Shane; rode into town, squared it away and rode out. Point being that Trump got the GOP to take off the gloves and fight, but maybe he isn't the right guy to hang around as sheriff afterwords. I'm not sure it's time to ride off into the sunset yet, but it's possible.

 

[Jay59]

GOP senators steer clear of Trump as rift deepens

Senate Republicans want the former president's supporters, but some are avoiding him in a bid to make the midterms a referendum on Joe Biden’s leadership.

www.politico.com

--
This is simply one article, with several 'name withheld' quotes from GOP Senators, and several Senators going on the record as to why they apparently 'snubbed' Trump.

I'll also add the effect described in the article appears be a midterm calculus, and I can make no claims about 2024.

However, some of us waiting/hoping for a fissure to occur between the GOP Congress and Trump, may find the article interesting.

Enjoy!

Politico is left-leaning and it shows. There is clearly a divide in the Republican party between the leadership and the voters. Senators, including McConnell, tend to align with leadership. Voters tend to align with Trump.

I'll stop short of using the term 'deplorable', but will very much agree with the content of your post.

You may not use the term deplorable but the elitist mindset that dismisses half the country is pervasive. The case can be made that contempt for rural America is the Democrat's version of open racism.

Was it? The people who attacked the Capitol on Jan 6 represent the majority of the Republican Party in my opinion.

You are entitled to your own opinion but your own facts.
JP Moynahan

No, that's wishful thinking. The Republicans won't lose a single voter if they abandon Trump. Josh Hawley or Ted Cruz or some other sinister **** will fill the bat-shit crazy void left by Trump.

They won't abandon Trump but they may move past him. Bear in mind that this is Reagan's wing of the party and he has been gone almost 30 years.

I agree that Ted Cruz is very likely to be in the thick of the race. Hawley, not so much.

The Republican voters' hatred of Democrats is the driving force that motivates the vast majority of them to vote. At the end of the day, I don't think the Republican candidate really matters that much to them.

You're projecting again. Hatred is not the Republican's problem. Anger, yes.

The candidate does not matter nearly as much as the follow-through. Trump stood by his promises and received loyalty in return.

People talk about Trump's popularity among Republican voters. However, Romney still got a higher percentage of the vote in 2012 than Trump did in 2016. And Trump's vote percentage in 2020 was about the same as Romney's. Considering that Trump was an incumbent President, that's pretty bad.

Romney was from the other faction, as was McCain.

Trump doesn't work for the American people. He works for himself. The American people fired his fat ass.

You show a clear lack of understanding.

 

[Chomsky]

IMHO, Trump is on the verge of becoming his own worst enemy - or snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. There isn't another Republican out there that can energize the right like Trump, but he can be a massive dickhead, and, obviously, a poor loser.

I believe the GOP will stick with Trump, either as long as he controls their base and destiny, or as long as they think they can win with him.

My biggest concern no is that the Republican hierarchy is more concerned about getting back to the "good ol' boy network" days - even if they become a permanent minority. McConnell is making noises that way.

I think it's mostly a matter of their wanting to win. And yes, the McConnel noises have been a bit surprising, along with the several chirps out of DeSantis -s too. DeSantis, IMO, is smart, shrewd, and very much has his pulse on the mood of his base, much of which he shares with Trump. He might show himself to be a substantive competitor for Trump . . . maybe.

ETA: Victor Davis Hanson wrote a book The Case For Trump where he compared Trump to the Alan Ladd character in Shane; rode into town, squared it away and rode out.

That's an interesting observation, and a great movie reference!

I can't help but leave the clip, below:

Point being that Trump got the GOP to take off the gloves and fight, but maybe he isn't the right guy to hang around as sheriff afterwords. I'm not sure it's time to ride off into the sunset yet, but it's possible.

I saw it more as a hostile takeover, motivated by greed and glory, to be honest. I think your projecting altruism on Trump, that is not present. I think he's motivated by greed & power, and now that he's tasted it in politics, it's going to be hard to get rid of him.

--

Thanks for sharing your analysis, with me. I enjoyed it!

 

[Bullseye]

I believe the GOP will stick with Trump, either as long as he controls their base and destiny, or as long as they think they can win with him.

That's a LW myth; Trump doesn't "control" anything - he offers a platform and people accept or reject it.

I think it's mostly a matter of their wanting to win. And yes, the McConnel noises have been a bit surprising, along with the several chirps out of DeSantis -s too. DeSantis, IMO, is smart, shrewd, and very much has his pulse on the mood of his base, much of which he shares with Trump. He might show himself to be a substantive competitor for Trump . . . maybe.

DiSantis IS a possibility.

That's an interesting observation, and a great movie reference!

I can't help but leave the clip, below:

You'd have to read the book; I did a poor job of explaining Hansen's point

I saw it more as a hostile takeover, motivated by greed and glory, to be honest. I think your projecting altruism on Trump, that is not present. I think he's motivated by greed & power, and now that he's tasted it in politics, it's going to be hard to get rid of him.

And I think you're projecting greed and glory seeking on Trump. Created he's egotistical and enjoys attention, but his goals and achievements speak to his efforts to improve ordinary people's lives and reestablish America as a force for good.

Thanks for sharing your analysis, with me. I enjoyed it!

Thanks, and thanks for the thoughtful, rational reply - it's refreshing to exchange thoughts with someone in a courteous and respectful exchange.
PS: I think I'm gonna read Hansen's book again to see how he did in retrospect.

 

[Peacenik]

It was quite accurate, and she said it to a private audience. Ya, she should have been more careful, but come on, trump said what 1000 worse things? Where's the 1000 times worry about his behavior? (Not saying you're a fan of trump, but I think it's a mountain out of a molehill on Hillary).

That's what they did. They would have done it no matter what she said. Their entire goal was to whip up and amplify hatred for Hillary and try to play the victim card. She was spot on in what she said. Trump fanatics were motivated by hatred.

Since the Republican Party has no platform besides opposing every measure Democrats want to do in order to help the disadvantaged and try to move the country beyond racism, they have no positive ideas for improving America to draw support for. Instead, they reinforce negativity and exclusionary proposals such as saying no to addressing climate change and wasting money on a border wall to keep out the best and most motivated low wages workers.

 

[Chomsky]

Politico is left-leaning and it shows. There is clearly a divide in the Republican party between the leadership and the voters. Senators, including McConnell, tend to align with leadership. Voters tend to align with Trump.

Regardless of the source, I have no reason to believe the article in inaccurate. However, I took care and strived to present a conservatives, moderate, presentation of it, including even a 'Devil's Advocate' position at the end.

But yes, McConnel's several recent 'stumpings' against Trump surprised me. As did the recent quip or two from DeSantis. Remember, McConnel doesn't care about Trump; he cares about his Senate.

I'd watch out for DeSantis, though. He's smart, shrewd, educated, and seems to have a good feel on the pulse of his base, much of which he shares with Trump. While I didn't believe so earlier, DeSantis several small insurgencies over Trump, with Trump backing down after some moderate (for him) rebuttal, leads me to believe it is possible DeSantis may rise-up against Trump. No idea if it's probable, but it is possible.

You may not use the term deplorable but the elitist mindset that dismisses half the country is pervasive.

What a detestable phrase, for a Presidential candidate to use! Why did HRC lose? That may encapsulate it! She wore her contempt, and her sense of entitlement, on her sleeve - displayed for all to see! Argh!

The case can be made that contempt for rural America is the Democrat's version of open racism.

While the historical sins of racism have been far more heinous than what is occurring today in your 'rural America' observation, I do believe your argument is otherwise valid. And that is one of the components leading to Trump's rise, and HRC's loss.

I said it from the night of the '16 election . . .

"The Dems ceded the working-class blue-collar vote to the GOP, and it is going to be very hard to gain that back."

 

[tres borrachos]

You show a clear lack of understanding.

Oh really? So Trump is still President, huh?

 

[Chomsky]

That's a LW myth; Trump doesn't "control" anything - he offers a platform and people accept or reject it.

Straight-up, I've seen few instances of a party leader keeping his party inline as strongly as Trump.

Remember, we're talking about the party politicos here. If you were referring strictly to the rank & file voters, I'd agree. But the situation with the Republican party politicos is far different. Trump rules with an iron fist.

DiSantis IS a possibility.

Yes, DeSantis is a 'possibility'. If Trump runs - which I believe he will - I still think the odds are less likely DeSantis will challenge him, than that he will. But, there is that possibility.

However in general & national terms, I do believe DeSantis is the more viable candidate to attain the Presidency. Trump is damaged goods, in that a large chunk of the electorate absolutely despises the guy. That's how he lost '16, and indeed I believe he helped sink the GOP Georgia Senate run-off.

I certainly will not count Trump out; that might be a fool's errand, as we've seen before. But, I do believe DeSantis is a better national candidate. However, the problem with a DeSantis nomination will be in motivating the Trump base to turn-out. Even with a Trump endorsement, I think the GOP would lose a sliver of the Trump base, which is a sliver they cannot afford to lose.

Why do I say this last? Because as we see with vaccines, with some issues even Trump cannot simply 'flip-a switch' and flip his base. When he promoted vaccinating, his base rebelled. If Trump doesn't run, he will lose some that would otherwise vote, and the GOP cannot afford to lose any votes. Remember, Trump managed to motivate some that did not normally vote due to apathy or disgust. They came-out for Trump himself, not for the GOP. Keeping that sliver of the Trump base motivated, without Trump running, I believe will be a difficult task - even with a Trump endorsement. In fact, I see this as somewhat analogous to the HRC loss, in that she couldn't hold-on to the Obama voters. Obama drew some voters that ordinarily would not vote, but who had gotten swept-up in his charisma and the historical nature of the candidacy. And, a sliver of those voters did not come-out for HRC.

You'd have to read the book; I did a poor job of explaining Hansen's point

I beat you to it! Already scouting reviews. Thanks for the reference.

And I think you're projecting greed and glory seeking on Trump

Ah . . . to be honest, I've always seen him as a grifter and a con, using other's money, constantly in & out of bankruptcy. His Presidency hasn't changed that opinion.

Thanks, and thanks for the thoughtful, rational reply - it's refreshing to exchange thoughts with someone in a courteous and respectful exchange.

Likewise! I woke up to over a dozen DP 'quote replies', from overnight; I wouldn't be responding to yours, if I didn't believe your response displayed the very qualities you enumerated above. Thanks for the compliment!

PS: I think I'm gonna read Hansen's book again to see how he did in retrospect.

My 'books to read' queue is huge! Measured in years! But if I get enthused, we may be a book club of two! However after remembering the huge depth of material left by P.J. O'Rourke, and being reminded of his journey from radical liberal to irreverent iconoclast conservative, I'm tempted to read a book of his essays where I've been told he touches on that journey.

I'm deeply saddened that Charles Krauthammer never got the chance to do his book chronically his journey from Liberalism to Conservatism, as it apparently was one of his upcoming tasks before his untimely death. He's one of my favorite pundits, and I'm sure I would have found it a fascinating read.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The ‘rift’ isn’t deep enough, yet, imo.

No, the evil union between Trump/Trumpism and Republicanism must be torn asunder, root and stem, with the former being permanently exiled from American politics.

No other conclusion is acceptable.

 

[Mycroft]

Trump doesn't work for the American people. He works for himself. The American people fired his fat ass.

yawn...

The person who believes the spin has spoken.

You are dismissed.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

LOL Not as much as Democrats are sprinting away from the sitting President.

Joe Biden is going to Pennsylvania today. Top Democrats are avoiding him. | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden's planned visit to Pennsylvania on Friday tells you everything you need to know about his current dismal political standing.

www.cnn.com

Hell, gap tooth Abrams wouldn't cross the street in her hometown to appear with him when he's speechifying on her favorite topic of election reform.

Didn’t even make it past the first 3 posts before a Trumpster had to deflect. Weak.

 

[tres borrachos]

yawn...

The person who believes the spin has spoken.

You are dismissed.

Yes, it's spin to say Trump lost the Presidency. That must be it. Spin!

You think Trump is still President. You're dismissed. And a whole lot of other things I can't post here.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

The time for them to have a riff was at the impeachment hearings. Its a bit late for that. Sniveling leeches afraid of being primaried pfft

I agree, but won’t pfft movement in the right direction.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

They are smart to avoid him. He is toxic.

The Republican Party needs to ask themselves if they want to try to win with the deplorable vote or without.

The deplorable vote is limited. Trump drew some political neophytes out of the woodwork, people who have never/rarely been involved in politics. They are poorly informed, misinformed, and motivated by hatred. But there are only so many of them. And some have perished due to foolish vaccination choices. No more are coming forward.

And then there are the traditional small-government Republicans who once claimed the moral high ground. They held their noses and voted for Trump because of the SCOTUS, but that is no longer a concern. And if the SCOTUS tosses Roe, that becomes more of a motivator for liberals than conservatives.

If Republicans want to win at all costs, the cost may be continued decline of party values. Or they can try to reclaim morality and hope to win on principle. It's an interesting dynamic to watch.

Insightful accuracy!

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Since the Senate is infested with GOP Elites …

You and your “elites”.

 

[Mycroft]

You and your “elites”.

They aren't my Elites.

 

[j brown's body]

LOL Not as much as Democrats are sprinting away from the sitting President.

Joe Biden is going to Pennsylvania today. Top Democrats are avoiding him. | CNN Politics

President Joe Biden's planned visit to Pennsylvania on Friday tells you everything you need to know about his current dismal political standing.

www.cnn.com

Hell, gap tooth Abrams wouldn't cross the street in her hometown to appear with him when he's speechifying on her favorite topic of election reform.

Democrats are not required to support him.

 

[j brown's body]

IMHO, Trump is on the verge of becoming his own worst enemy - or snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. There isn't another Republican out there that can energize the right like Trump, but he can be a massive dickhead, and, obviously, a poor loser. My biggest concern no is that the Republican hierarchy is more concerned about getting back to the "good ol' boy network" days - even if they become a permanent minority. McConnell is making noises that way.

ETA: Victor Davis Hanson wrote a book The Case For Trump where he compared Trump to the Alan Ladd character in Shane; rode into town, squared it away and rode out. Point being that Trump got the GOP to take off the gloves and fight, but maybe he isn't the right guy to hang around as sheriff afterwords. I'm not sure it's time to ride off into the sunset yet, but it's possible.

If that why you dislike the status quo, because you don't think they fight enough? Why does everything have to be a fight? So much anger!

 

[Linc]

They aren't my Elites.

Putin now decreeing Hitler edicts in Ukraine with the support of Republicans.

 

[Rawley]

Democrats are not required to support him.

But Republicans are required to support a Republican President? How does that work?

 

[Rawley]

Didn’t even make it past the first 3 posts before a Trumpster had to deflect. Weak.

No deflection. Just challenging the loon definition of a "rift"

 

[Chomsky]

I understand that. My point is that Trump's popularity among Republican-leaning voters was not any higher than Romney's.

Democrats are screwed in the 2022 and the 2024 elections without the new voting rights legislation. Gerrymandering by itself is going to win the House for Republicans.

Oh, without a doubt!

To say nothing of voter suppression . . .

 

[Linc]

Oh, without a doubt!

To say nothing of voter suppression . . .

Or laws allowing the outlaw GOPs to just change vote totals; but wait, there’s more …