GOP Privately Considers Dumping Trump

[<alt>doxygen]

Everyone should recall that Trump was ridiculed for running against 12(?) more qualified Republican candidates. The party put their weight behind Jeb! However, unlike the corrupt DNC, the RNC didn't try to overrule the will of their members and, in the end, it was Trump....much to the chagrin of the RNC. Let's not forget the initial controversy among the Republicans on how to deal with/work with/handle (if possible) Trump once he was elected.

I think both the GOP and Dems underestimated (radically) Trump's appeal and staying power. The fact that Trump could say or do anything at all, and his supporters would stay with him. It cost the GOP at the front end and the dems at the back end. Seems to me that at this point, the GOP is Trump's party. The people that won in the GOP in 2018 were most, if not all, Trumpers. This stain isn't going away anytime soon, I'm afraid.

 

[haymarket]

Agreed. For a LW example, look at Hillary in 2008 and 2016. She thought she could control the process, but not even the Democrats wanted her....twice.

You are right about 2008 where the party decidedly went for Obama.

However, she did get more primary votes than Bernie did in 16. But she rigged the process with all those heavily African American states so early in the process so that she looked like the inevitable nominee so lots of later voters simply ratified her. And she did get 2.8 million more votes than Trump did in November.

But she is done and hopefully gone.

 

[sangha]

Not nothing, but just the testimony of Cohen. It needs to be corroborated if it's going to reach a level where Trump is either indicted or impeached. If we're taking money bets, I'll put $50 on Mueller having the corroborative evidence.

The SDNY has already corroborated Cohens testimony

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

The GOP in Congress turning on Trump? I will not believe it until it happens. They have made a collective decision to stick with this guy to the bitter end as to oppose him means to rip the party in two - and they fear the establishment side of the Republican Party may end up in the minority with the deplorable outnumbering them. So they have to keep on going with Trump and have no real options that are also not laden with more explosives than a mine field.

They know they could get their collective asses kicked in 2020 - and they would rather face that and then rebuild without Trump after taking the electoral bloodbath then they would having to face a formal split in the party and alienating the deplorable they know make up so much of their reliable voting blocs.

That is the real nightmare scenario for the GOP. Parties have lost before in landslides and have to rebuild. Goldwater got his ass handed to him in 64 but Nixon came back to win just four years later. Same with the Dems and McGovern in 72 and Carter then won in 76. But the party held intact despite the loss.

The real disaster they fear is turning against Trump, Trump fighting back, and the party ruptures with the Trumpkins hating the establishment GOP party leaders for daring to oppose their little tin god.

So they will grit their teeth and keep riding with Trump to the bitter end - even if it means looking like damn fools as Hatch is looking today or risking a landslide against them in 2020 and many of them will have lost their own positions.

There will come a point though that they can oust the trump faction given the facts, and put all blame on them.

 

[haymarket]

There will come a point though that they can oust the trump faction given the facts, and put all blame on them.

I realize this is all speculation - but how would you see that going down so that the party is not seriously divided?

 

[Divine_Wind]

You are right about 2008 where the party decidedly went for Obama.

However, she did get more primary votes than Bernie did in 16. But she rigged the process with all those heavily African American states so early in the process so that she looked like the inevitable nominee so lots of later voters simply ratified her. And she did get 2.8 million more votes than Trump did in November.

But she is done and hopefully gone.

The political corruption within the DNC throws into doubt the results with Bernie. Maybe he'd have still lost, but now we'll never know because the process was corrupt.

The popular vote thing is misleading since it comes from two primary high density population areas. The first time the Democrats brought up the EC was when Gore lost, but he lost more due to Nader than the EC. The second time they brought it up was when Hillary lost and that, as noted, was simply because the Left Coast voted heavily for Hillary. Those are the same people who for two decades referred to most of America as "fly over states". You won't get any sympathy out of me for those assclowns.

 

[haymarket]

The SDNY has already corroborated Cohens testimony

A fact which the GOP seems to want to willful ignore since it proves the charges of Cohen are true and can be proven in court independent of his own testimony.

 

[Divine_Wind]

The SDNY has already corroborated Cohens testimony

Great! Let's see the evidence used in prosecution.

 

[sangha]

Great! Let's see the evidence used in prosecution.

patience

In the meantime, remember that our inability to access that info at this time in no way indicates that evidence does not exist.

BTW, do you doubt that the russians interfered with our elections?

 

[Captain America]

You lost me at "MSNBC."

 

[NeverTrump]

The SDNY has already corroborated Cohens testimony

But But NY is liberal so they don't believe them.

 

[NeverTrump]

A fact which the GOP seems to want to willful ignore since it proves the charges of Cohen are true and can be proven in court independent of his own testimony.

I do not think they want to know that they are working together. I seem to remember some freak out about the deep state corruption working together to bring down Trump but since that's practically everyone, I can't remember the details of what problems this partnership had in their minds.

 

[Divine_Wind]

patience

In the meantime, remember that our inability to access that info at this time in no way indicates that evidence does not exist.

BTW, do you doubt that the russians interfered with our elections?

Of course. If you'd bothered to read my posts you'd know I've been advocating "let's wait for the report" for months.

No kidding. Again, if you'd read my posts....


Not at all. It's clearly obvious they did. Among the first indictments were Russian agents. Do you doubt it?

 

[sangha]

Of course. If you'd bothered to read my posts you'd know I've been advocating "let's wait for the report" for months.

No kidding. Again, if you'd read my posts....


Not at all. It's clearly obvious they did. Among the first indictments were Russian agents. Do you doubt it?

It is clearly obvious? Can you show me the evidence?

And to be clear, I am not asking for you to quote people you find credible claiming they have evidence and describing the evidence they claim to possess. I would like to see the actual evidence.

 

[Divine_Wind]

It is clearly obvious? Can you show me the evidence?

And to be clear, I am not asking for you to quote people you find credible claiming they have evidence and describing the evidence they claim to possess. I would like to see the actual evidence.

patience

In the meantime, remember that our inability to access that info at this time in no way indicates that evidence does not exist.

BTW, do you doubt that the russians interfered with our elections?

 

[sangha]

patience

In the meantime, remember that our inability to access that info at this time in no way indicates that evidence does not exist.

BTW, do you doubt that the russians interfered with our elections?

Exactly!

Like most everyone else, you and I judge the credibility of the people who make the claims. That is why asking to see the evidence is entirely besides the point.

 

[Kobie]

Perhaps you have been asleep the last couple of years. Establishment on both sides and crazed journalists have been quite vocal about their discontent at at having power being brought back towards the citizenry.

You honestly believe that Trump’s “presidency” is “having power being brought back towards the citizenry”?

 

[Divine_Wind]

You honestly believe that Trump’s “presidency” is “having power being brought back towards the citizenry”?

Some do believe this to be true. My wife comes from very humble beginnings in a red county section of California. Most of her friends back there loooooove Trump and he can do no wrong in their opinion. OTOH, most of them are on welfare and the others are heavily involved in the pot industry, mostly so they can smoke it all day. Their collective IQs average far less than 100.

 

[Cardinal]

Take from the MSNBC rumor mill for what this is but since that bipartisan letter came out. I feel the tide has changed. You have Trumps supporters in the house/senate and then you have everyone else. But like this says. The bottom is falling out. Trump is worried. No one wants to be COS. The Russian NRA bunny just flipped. One should be asking these Republicans, what more evidence do they need? Are they waiting for the pee tape to be released?????



REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS PRIVATELY CONSIDERING DUMPING DONALD TRUMP, MSNBC GUEST SAYS

"Republican lawmakers “are starting to tell me privately'...."

Cool beans. Let me know when they no longer say it in private. Until then, I'll assume they're full of ****.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Deregulation......

I see so when you said giving power back to the citizens, you didn't mean the working class citizens, you meant the billion dollar companies who are spending Millions lobbying the Republicans for this deregulation. Yep you're a typical Republican

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I realize this is all speculation - but how would you see that going down so that the party is not seriously divided?

IMO despite all the rhetoric from Democrats, Republicans will reject Trump if there is the right evidence against him. Sure right now they are trying to lock arms and repel the latest news about Trump because that has worked so far. So far. But so far there was not much damning news. Outside of the loons every Republican that I conversed with will tell you that if there is evidence of collusion they will jump sides on the issue in a heart beat. Of course like I just stated they are operating under the impression that this too will just roll off. But the reality is that this is different; its the beginning of the end for Trump, when they realize that we passed the point of no return, they will turn on him. Add to that outside of the loons most Republicans only tolerate Trump. Their votes were literally just votes against Hillary. If the economy had tanked they would have dumped him then. So they stayed because there wasnt anything else for them to do.

They will all (minus the loons) dump him sooner or later, its just a matter of time. ANd if it plays out like that they will not be divided instead they will blame everything on Trump and the loons. Its the Republicans scapegoat that could have them come out of this stronger and less divided than they went in. If that happens the Democrat's will be at a loss, since they have believed that the Republicans were losing up until 2016. The disarray that is the Democrat party, needs to expel their own loons as well. I was hoping that the loss of 2016 would cause that, but it never happened.

 

[haymarket]

IMO despite all the rhetoric from Democrats, Republicans will reject Trump if there is the right evidence against him. Sure right now they are trying to lock arms and repel the latest news about Trump because that has worked so far. So far. But so far there was not much damning news. Outside of the loons every Republican that I conversed with will tell you that if there is evidence of collusion they will jump sides on the issue in a heart beat. Of course like I just stated they are operating under the impression that this too will just roll off. But the reality is that this is different; its the beginning of the end for Trump, when they realize that we passed the point of no return, they will turn on him. Add to that outside of the loons most Republicans only tolerate Trump. Their votes were literally just votes against Hillary. If the economy had tanked they would have dumped him then. So they stayed because there wasnt anything else for them to do.

They will all (minus the loons) dump him sooner or later, its just a matter of time. ANd if it plays out like that they will not be divided instead they will blame everything on Trump and the loons. Its the Republicans scapegoat that could have them come out of this stronger and less divided than they went in. If that happens the Democrat's will be at a loss, since they have believed that the Republicans were losing up until 2016. The disarray that is the Democrat party, needs to expel their own loons as well. I was hoping that the loss of 2016 would cause that, but it never happened.

You might be right. Time will tell. However, I strongly suspect that no evidence outside of a high definition copy of the rumored peepee tape with Trump performing like a trained dog as Putin in the same room barks out orders to him and then Donald waddles over to lick his outstretched hand is going to convince the deplorables to turn from Trump. And since they make up such a disproportionate share of the party in the primary season, that alone will cause most GOP officials to swallow hard and try and come up with excuses why they cannot vote to impeach or convict Trump.

Its just going to be easier to stick with Trump, lose in 2020 and build the party from within anew as the Republicans did after the 64 disaster and the Dems did after the 72 debacle. That is far easier to do than to divide the party in two, watch a third party emerge from your ashes, and then have to run against that. Think of Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 who basically did that to the GOP and the result was a Wilson victory for the Democrats. Or think of the votes Perot peeled off in 1992 that resulted in Clinton winning for the Dems. And the GOP is more of a minority party today than they were in either of those two election cycles. They simply cannot afford to divide the party- even if the establishment retains the majority of their normal voters - and I am not sure that would necessarily happen.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

You might be right. Time will tell. However, I strongly suspect that no evidence outside of a high definition copy of the rumored peepee tape with Trump performing like a trained dog as Putin in the same room barks out orders to him and then Donald waddles over to lick his outstretched hand is going to convince the deplorables to turn from Trump. And since they make up such a disproportionate share of the party in the primary season, that alone will cause most GOP officials to swallow hard and try and come up with excuses why they cannot vote to impeach or convict Trump.

Its just going to be easier to stick with Trump, lose in 2020 and build the party from within anew as the Republicans did after the 64 disaster and the Dems did after the 72 debacle. That is far easier to do than to divide the party in two, watch a third party emerge from your ashes, and then have to run against that. Think of Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 who basically did that to the GOP and the result was a Wilson victory for the Democrats. Or think of the votes Perot peeled off in 1992 that resulted in Clinton winning for the Dems. And the GOP is more of a minority party today than they were in either of those two election cycles. They simply cannot afford to divide the party- even if the establishment retains the majority of their normal voters - and I am not sure that would necessarily happen.

Thats true if the party is divided. But if the deplorables make their own party it will go the way the other one went, what was their name? Whoever it was they were unable field a candidate of their own, so they nominated De La Fuente.

 

[haymarket]

Thats true if the party is divided. But if the deplorables make their own party it will go the way the other one went, what was their name? Whoever it was they were unable field a candidate of their own, so they nominated De La Fuente.

Again - you could be right and it could go the way you predict. I sense that the election of Trump forever changes how they see themselves and their power. And I suspect some of the more whack job politicians on the right like Jim Jordan of Ohio and Trump watery Nunes would split with them and take a sector of elected officials with them. And I suspect they would do much much much better than La Fuente as a national candidate.

Regardless which one of us is right - if either one is - I suspect that is what the mainstream GOP is afraid of and why they will stick with Trump even if it means booking a cabin on the Titanic already having seen the movie and how it ends.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Again - you could be right and it could go the way you predict. I sense that the election of Trump forever changes how they see themselves and their power. And I suspect some of the more whack job politicians on the right like Jim Jordan of Ohio and Trump watery Nunes would split with them and take a sector of elected officials with them. And I suspect they would do much much much better than La Fuente as a national candidate.

Regardless which one of us is right - if either one is - I suspect that is what the mainstream GOP is afraid of and why they will stick with Trump even if it means booking a cabin on the Titanic already having seen the movie and how it ends.

You are probably correct since I was thinking from a rational perspective and we know the Republicans seem to be far from rational right now.