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GOP incompetence destroying the party.

The GOP swang heavily to the right in 2010 and won massively. Considering a relatively more "moderate" Republican presidential nominee, it's hard to say the GOP was any further to the right in 2012 than they were in 2010 and lost for the most part. I'm going to suggest that swinging to the right or not is hardly a good predictive metric for how the elections will go considering the same general shift occured in two different election cycles with staggeringly different results.
 
I don't think the GOP is suffering from incompetence but a crisis of the soul. There is strong faction within the party that wants a radical right no compromise hard line. Most have roots back to the Reagan Democrats who started jumping the Dem ship after civil rights and made a strong finish when they decided GAWD was under attack and a nanny state was taking over.

This coalition is coming apart, the hard right wing can't carry the GOP to the White House and until now has been very off-put by the mainstream GOP selecting a more moderate and not all that happy to try and carry a RINO to the Oval Office.

The Dems faced the same problem for a bit when Nixon won the Presidency. For all some here may see 'the way forward' as hard right, most Americans don't and I do believe Willard could have won the Presidency if he didn't have to drag the radical right party platform behind him.

I think the calls for a period of mourning for the Democrats after Nixon was premature and i don't think anyone can right the GOP obit just yet.

The country may lean conservative but I hop it never leans as far to the right as most of the TPs.
 
James D Hill said:
The GOP is in more trouble that they where last November. They have swung even further to the right. They have let ther hatred of Obama cloud their judgement to the point they can't even get out of their own way. The party is in a civil war. You have the old GOP trying to talk common sense like McCain,Imhoff or Graham while the tea bagger nut jobs try to remove them by running wing nuts against them. Morons like Cruze,Paul and Steve King want to shut down the government in spite of what level heads say in their own party.

The house does not look like they are going to pass imagration reform in spite of the fact the GOp had their head handed to them in the last election by the Hispanic voter block. This is looking like another disaster for the GOP and they are too thick to even see it. Are they shooting for only ten percent of the Hispanic vote next time? Boy that sounds like a winner.

At the state lever the GOP has pushed their most unpopular ideas in red states. The GOP got their butt's kicked by the female vote last time so how do they respond. Calling Sandra Fluke a whore. Pushing anti abortion BS and voter ID racism. They must figure they have only 5% black votes so they can't do much worse. I have to remind the right wingers that if they tick off the female voters they are doomed. Bottom line.End of story.

As a liberal I am rooting for the right wing morons. I know there are some smart members of the GOP but they do not seem to have a vioce anymore. A tea party or social conservative nutjob can not defeat Hillary or any other Dem and the level heads in the party know it but can they reel in the nutjobs? I don't think so. Good luck my right wing friends. Your nastyness and selfishness will be rewarded with failure.
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The problems with the GOP are:

- Out of control pundits are the most powerful voices in the party and have far more influence on the voters than elected officials or candidates.

- A huge focus on preaching to the choir and not enough reaching others who they need to persuade then thinking falsely they're strong and powerful because all the choir members show up for rehearsal and most importantly FIRED UP, despite being outnumbered and more and more outnumbered every passing day.

- Not their fault but changing societal trends are not in their favor.

- The mentality that pandering to intelligent and informed people who know the group they represent could care less about their interests will work. Then labeling it "outreach" and fooling themselves into thinking that's the same as offering real and point by point practical solutions they can agree with and embrace. That's like the disingenuous husband who makes his wife feel like crap on the regular and to be honest doesn't really care about her then get's her a dozen roses on Valentines Day and thinks that ought to make her THINK he cares for selfish motives (to put it nicely on the rated G discussion board) when in truth he really doesn't and she knows it.

- Dishonoring, demonizing and alienating large blocks of voters then wondering why they vote against them on election day.

- The mentality that offending certain groups is okay because "they won't vote for us anyway" will only affect votes from among that written off constituency forgetting that they have friends, relatives and supporters who are also offended and will vote with them out of protest.

I said this long before anybody else figured it out; 2012 was the GOP's last stand at possibly winning the White House. If they couldn't win then, there chances of winning a national election again was probably gone in our lifetime. That prediction has IMHO come to pass. The only hope for the GOP winning the White House any time soon will be a Watergate level scandal by a democrat President or if the democrats get arrogant and force unpopular policies on the American people just because they want to and they can. As long as the democrats keep the voters' wishes at the forefront of their decisions governing according the public will and don't become crooks the GOP will be a regional party in some states and towns but the White House for a very long time.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Michelle Malkin | Ohio woman: Yeah, I voted for Obama twice… what’s the big deal? «

Poll worker who voted for Obama multiple times convicted of voting fraud - BizPac Review

Proof enough for you? :roll:
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Hmmmm okay great you proved a point so now that makes voter fruad .0000000000000000017% of all votes cast. That really swung the election didnt it! I mean it was tight. So one conviction out of 7 investigations. Plus Michelle Malkin throwing in another.
 
greengirl77 said:
Hmmmm okay great you proved a point so now that makes voter fruad .0000000000000000017% of all votes cast. That really swung the election didnt it! I mean it was tight. So one conviction out of 7 investigations. Plus Michelle Malkin throwing in another.
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It's not about throwing an election, it is about the purity of the vote. It is principle.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
It's not about throwing an election, it is about the purity of the vote. It is principle.
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I have found over the years that when someone says- "It's the principle" that is the ONLY thing they can argue.

Purity? are you being serious? From hanging chads to halted recounts- purity and politics are just never going to the same no-tell motel and live happily ever after.

The GOP has FAR bigger problems and your 'issue' is just deflection...
 
notquiteright said:
I have found over the years that when someone says- "It's the principle" that is the ONLY thing they can argue.
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I'll add that principle is the ONLY thing it ISN'T about...The clamor over ID obscures their REAL agenda, eliminating "certain" voters from the roles, the targeted lowering of the number of early voting days
Purity? are you being serious? From hanging chads to halted recounts- purity and politics are just never going to the same no-tell motel and live happily ever after.
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The GOP has FAR bigger problems and your 'issue' is just deflection...
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..My concern is that Dems are too concerned about Repubs and not their own issues.
 
greengirl77 said:
Hmmmm okay great you proved a point so now that makes voter fruad .0000000000000000017% of all votes cast. That really swung the election didnt it! I mean it was tight. So one conviction out of 7 investigations. Plus Michelle Malkin throwing in another.
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The problem is that you are trying to use charges and convictions for voter fraud to measure the amount of it. Unlike shoplifting or murder there is no missing inventory or dead body to indicate that the crime of in person voter fraud has ever occured. All you have is a total number of votes cast with each being allegedly cast by a registered voter.

The beauty (and potential for in person fraud) of a secret ballot system is that the actual ballot cannot be traced directly back to the voter that actually cast it; perhaps what we need is biometric data, e.g. a fingerprint or retina scan, to accompany the voter/registered voter match for in person voting. That is both free (to the individual voter) and very hard to defeat but still does not allow the voter's ballot selections to be traced. That leaves only absentee ballot (or poll worker) fraud to be dealt with. For absentee ballots perhaps the use of a double envelope can be used, one for the voter's ID/voters registration verification and the other for containing the voter's selections.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The problem is that you are trying to use charges and convictions for voter fraud to measure the amount of it. Unlike shoplifting or murder there is no missing inventory or dead body to indicate that the crime of in person voter fraud has ever occured. All you have is a total number of votes cast with each being allegedly cast by a registered voter.

The beauty (and potential for in person fraud) of a secret ballot system is that the actual ballot cannot be traced directly back to the voter that actually cast it; perhaps what we need is biometric data, e.g. a fingerprint or retina scan, to accompany the voter/registered voter match for in person voting. That is both free (to the individual voter) and very hard to defeat but still does not allow the voter's ballot selections to be traced. That leaves only absentee ballot (or poll worker) fraud to be dealt with. For absentee ballots perhaps the use of a double envelope can be used, one for the voter's ID/voters registration verification and the other for containing the voter's selections.
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Or some people could quit living in fantasy land, oh the same goes with the voter i.d. as well. Republicans have made it very clear why they want it and it has nothingto do with fruad.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The problem is that you are trying to use charges and convictions for voter fraud to measure the amount of it. Unlike shoplifting or murder there is no missing inventory or dead body to indicate that the crime of in person voter fraud has ever occured. All you have is a total number of votes cast with each being allegedly cast by a registered voter.

The beauty (and potential for in person fraud) of a secret ballot system is that the actual ballot cannot be traced directly back to the voter that actually cast it; perhaps what we need is biometric data, e.g. a fingerprint or retina scan, to accompany the voter/registered voter match for in person voting. That is both free (to the individual voter) and very hard to defeat but still does not allow the voter's ballot selections to be traced. That leaves only absentee ballot (or poll worker) fraud to be dealt with. For absentee ballots perhaps the use of a double envelope can be used, one for the voter's ID/voters registration verification and the other for containing the voter's selections.
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The problem with your 'trace the ballot back to a person' is it would no longer be a secret ballot. Sort of the whole premise of our system, a vote done without fear of anyone finding out how you voted and any possible retribution- I recall several rather ardent right wing bosses saying anyone who votes for.... name the 'villain' in their eyes should seek work elsewhere. Imagine if those same bosses could find out how their people voted?

The bottom line is the only case where the popular vote was nullified was in 2000. While I can see how the Cons are much more up in arms over a possible over vote by liberals the fact is far more votes are 'lost' due to voter turn off than voter fraud...
 
James D Hill said:
The GOP is in more trouble that they where last November. They have swung even further to the right. They have let ther hatred of Obama cloud their judgement to the point they can't even get out of their own way. The party is in a civil war. You have the old GOP trying to talk common sense like McCain,Imhoff or Graham while the tea bagger nut jobs try to remove them by running wing nuts against them. Morons like Cruze,Paul and Steve King want to shut down the government in spite of what level heads say in their own party.

The house does not look like they are going to pass imagration reform in spite of the fact the GOp had their head handed to them in the last election by the Hispanic voter block. This is looking like another disaster for the GOP and they are too thick to even see it. Are they shooting for only ten percent of the Hispanic vote next time? Boy that sounds like a winner.

At the state lever the GOP has pushed their most unpopular ideas in red states. The GOP got their butt's kicked by the female vote last time so how do they respond. Calling Sandra Fluke a whore. Pushing anti abortion BS and voter ID racism. They must figure they have only 5% black votes so they can't do much worse. I have to remind the right wingers that if they tick off the female voters they are doomed. Bottom line.End of story.

As a liberal I am rooting for the right wing morons. I know there are some smart members of the GOP but they do not seem to have avioce anymore. A tea party or social conservative nutjob can not defeat Hillary or any other Dem and the level heads in the party know it but can they reel in the nutjobs? I don't think so. Good luck my right wing friends. Your nastyness and selfishness will be rewarded with failure.
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Why do you sound so pissed off? You should be quietly cheering while the "tea nut bagites" drag the hated GOP down the sewer hole.
 
First of all, us Democrats are only one poorly vetted nominee (e.g. John Edwards) from losing a national election. So let's not count out the GOP just yet, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

That being said, here's the GOP's trouble:

1. Realignment of the parties since the 1960's have directed more minorities and voting blocs to the Democrats than to the Republicans.

2. As the Republican coalition contracts, the issues their electorate prioritizes contracts.

3. Republicans have to appease the remaining coalition's limited issues in order to get re-elected. Their policies further alienate moderates in their coalition, pushing them out.

4. As the Republican coalition further contracts, their priorities further narrow and harden.

5. In order to get re-elected, Republicans have to further appease their narrow coalition's hardened priorities. All moderates are pushed out.

6. As this vicious cycle continues, Republicans further shift to the right of the broad electorate needed to elect them President.

The point is, without having broad coalitions, Republicans are not incentivized to represent a broad range of voters, so they don't. They are no longer competing for voters with the Democrats, they are competing within the party for the same conservative voters.

Everyone agrees that the most viable way to broaden the Republican coalition is to reach Hispanics. Republicans seem to think that Hispanics should naturally fit with Republicans and they only need to win them over with immigration policies. HOWEVER, they neglect to see that Hispanics are as diverse as the country as a whole, and as with the rest of the country, the younger generations are increasingly more progressive on issues of gay rights, abortion, gun control, the drug war, and just about every other issue the GOP doesn't compromise on.

So they are not just going to automatically win the Hispanic vote if they only evolve on immigration.
 
I agree voter fraud is destructive to our system and voter REGISTRATION fraud that some people write off as no big deal in my humble option should be just as criminal as brandishing a gun vs. shooting someone.

We could use elections modernization on a few levels including positive identification that doesn't cost poorer people a fortune in the middle of a bad economy and without new rules thrust upon those voters at the last minute. More early voting. A fairer primary system where states (including territories and DC) can associate in groups of 5 or 6 and then have a lottery system to randomly assign them to one of 10 primary dates. Finance reform. One standardized easy to understand ballot format for the whole country. Long distance voting from any elections office in the country by pretending this is the 21st century and we have access to technology that can pull up any ballot from anywhere in the country. Harsh penalties on par with treason for those who deliberately engages in elections fraud.
 
I'm just heartened that James J.Hill cares so much about the current state and future of the GOP.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
It's not about throwing an election, it is about the purity of the vote. It is principle.
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Are you saying with voter ID, that voter fraud would be zero? Just want to make sure you "care" about the purity of the vote and all.
 
TheNextEra said:
Are you saying with voter ID, that voter fraud would be zero? Just want to make sure you "care" about the purity of the vote and all.
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I'm sure people will somehow find a way around, but it is better than what we currently have
 
davidtaylorjr said:
I'm sure people will somehow find a way around, but it is better than what we currently have
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Is it? With voter ID people are going to have an even greater sense of security which can be exploited. I provide my ID each and every time I have voted, however, they don't even take a second glance look at the ID and only look to verify the name. I can see voter IDs not being made very well and easily counterfited. Just my opinion, but I think we are going to see even greater voter fraud with the IDs.
 
TheNextEra said:
Is it? With voter ID people are going to have an even greater sense of security which can be exploited. I provide my ID each and every time I have voted, however, they don't even take a second glance look at the ID and only look to verify the name. I can see voter IDs not being made very well and easily counterfited. Just my opinion, but I think we are going to see even greater voter fraud with the IDs.
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That could be, but can you agree that SOMETHING needs to be in place, perhaps not measures being proposed, but something?
 
Drake McHugh said:
I'm just heartened that James J.Hill cares so much about the current state and future of the GOP.
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That is because if God forbid they ever get into power we all have to feel their rath and hatred. They are freaking scary. I do not want to be ran by a bunch of freaking wingnuts who want to return us to the Hoover years. Do you?
 
Dooble said:
Why do you sound so pissed off? You should be quietly cheering while the "tea nut bagites" drag the hated GOP down the sewer hole.
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We all have to fight these nimrods tooth and nail to get anything done and as it stands they hold 33% of the power by controling the house.
 
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