• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Good Luck Missouri - Take Your Rights Back!

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Missouri bill would void federal gun laws - CNN.com

First I have to say I'm shocked this is on CNN.com. The good part is so many people are clicking on it that its the third biggest story of the day right now.

I can only hope this Missouri legislature over rides the governors' veto. I would love to see a state challenge the supremacy clause and in doing so for the supreme court to evaluate the validity of federal gun laws in general.
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
43,275
Reaction score
19,353
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Missouri bill would void federal gun laws - CNN.com

First I have to say I'm shocked this is on CNN.com. The good part is so many people are clicking on it that its the third biggest story of the day right now.

I can only hope this Missouri legislature over rides the governors' veto. I would love to see a state challenge the supremacy clause and in doing so for the supreme court to evaluate the validity of federal gun laws in general.
That would require a much more activist court to make a decision that goes beyond the case. I don't see the Roberts court doing that.

I thought that Conservatives didn't like the idea of legislating from the bench.
 

Fishstyx

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Messages
1,527
Reaction score
765
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Not sure how this get by the Supremacy Clause. Just saying it does doesn't necessarily make it so.
 

CalGun

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
7,039
Reaction score
3,268
Location
Denio Junction
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Other
Its a fair question for the court, and not activist at all but constitutionalist. How does the supremacy clause enable the federal government to restrict the rights provided in the constitution?


That would require a much more activist court to make a decision that goes beyond the case. I don't see the Roberts court doing that.

I thought that Conservatives didn't like the idea of legislating from the bench.
 

rocket88

Mod Conspiracy Theorist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
43,275
Reaction score
19,353
Location
A very blue state
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Its a fair question for the court, and not activist at all but constitutionalist. How does the supremacy clause enable the federal government to restrict the rights provided in the constitution?
I think it's a fair question, but I think if you brought them a case about nullification and they expanded it to be about gun rights in general, that would be fairly activist, and out of character for Roberts.
 

Fisher

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,913
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
It won't void federal law, but it could divest state courts in that state the authority to use federal case law on guns I suppose. It is kind of silly to even think that this would ever work. It is nothing but a political statement at best.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,921
Reaction score
75,556
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
That would require a much more activist court to make a decision that goes beyond the case. I don't see the Roberts court doing that.

I thought that Conservatives didn't like the idea of legislating from the bench.
it would actually mean following the original intent of the tenth amendment and drop kicking the pernicious FDR fecal laden jurisprudence to the cesspool where it should have been flushed 80 or so years ago
 

Unitedwestand13

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Messages
20,687
Reaction score
6,251
Location
Sunnyvale California
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
this just in. the Missouri bill that would nullify federal gun laws is officially dead

Missouri lawmakers fail to revive bill preventing federal gun law enforcement - U.S. News

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — In a defeat for gun rights advocates, Missouri lawmakers failed Wednesday to override Gov. Jay Nixon's veto of a bill that would have prevented federal enforcement of gun laws in the state.

The Republican-led Senate voted 22-12 to override the bill, falling one vote short of the two-thirds majority needed. Earlier in the day, the Republican-controlled House voted 109-49 to override the bill, reaching exactly the required number.

The bill would have allowed the state to prosecute federal officials who attempted to enforce federal gun laws in Missouri. It also would have allowed suspected criminals to sue federal agents who arrest them on gun charges.
Advertise | AdChoices

"The fight ain't over. We'll be back to visit it again and again," said Republican Sen. Brian Nieves.

Opponents of the bill said it undermined enforcement of gun laws. They also pointed to concerns voiced by police chiefs and sheriffs across the state.

"The reality is, this bill says that every federal law, whether reasonable or not, cannot be enforced in Missouri," Democratic Rep. Mike Colona said during debate on the House floor.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,921
Reaction score
75,556
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
That's too bad, I'm curious why you seem so happy? You don't like people to be free and enjoy their rights?
he's an anti gun poster-though he isn't nearly as obstinate as many. Nonetheless he isn't a fan of freedom to keep and bear arms
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Interesting. I sort of know Tom Dempsey, one of the two republicans to vote against the bill, and I'm surprised by his vote. I wonder what his rationale was.
 

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2005
Messages
250,921
Reaction score
75,556
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
Interesting. I sort of know Tom Dempsey, one of the two republicans to vote against the bill, and I'm surprised by his vote. I wonder what his rationale was.
HE should explain it in his concession speech after the next GOP primary
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
HE should explain it in his concession speech after the next GOP primary
He's not a bad guy. I'll wait to judge him until I know why he voted that way. I think he's term limited anyway though.
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
HE should explain it in his concession speech after the next GOP primary
Missouri Backs off Showdown Over Federal Gun Laws - ABC News

His explanation seems to be that he doesn't support this bill because he sees it as an infringement on first amendment rights. He's said he's going to fast track a similar gun rights bill next year that addresses those concerns.

The other Republican who voted against it, Majority leader Richard, said that he viewed the bill as unconstitutional, and changed his mind after finding resistance that local law enforcement had against being forced to arrest FBI agents.

Sen. Richard:

I'm curious what your view on their reasons is.
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Interesting. I sort of know Tom Dempsey, one of the two republicans to vote against the bill, and I'm surprised by his vote. I wonder what his rationale was.


Fear of another civil war?
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Fear of another civil war?
Whether this passed or not, we're not going to have another civil war over this. Either it passes and stays up, or it gets struck down by the courts, and even though the people who passed it wouldn't like it, they would not go to war over it.
 

Wiseone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,551
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Missouri bill would void federal gun laws - CNN.com

First I have to say I'm shocked this is on CNN.com. The good part is so many people are clicking on it that its the third biggest story of the day right now.

I can only hope this Missouri legislature over rides the governors' veto. I would love to see a state challenge the supremacy clause and in doing so for the supreme court to evaluate the validity of federal gun laws in general.
This is a waste of taxpayer time, if the state truly did not want to follow this law it would challenge it in court.

Nullification Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's a good list of all major nullification attempts, they all failed

Nullification (U.S. Constitution) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Juanita

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
3,981
Reaction score
863
Location
now? COLORADO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Whether this passed or not, we're not going to have another civil war over this. Either it passes and stays up, or it gets struck down by the courts, and even though the people who passed it wouldn't like it, they would not go to war over it.

Actually, there is no way of knowing that for sure... I can just picture Federal troops storming a local police force and everybody in the country choosing sides and voila--a civil war...
 

Wiseone

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
12,177
Reaction score
7,551
Location
Ft. Campbell, KY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Whether this passed or not, we're not going to have another civil war over this. Either it passes and stays up, or it gets struck down by the courts, and even though the people who passed it wouldn't like it, they would not go to war over it.
Not once in the history of the United States has the Supreme Court upheld a nullification of Federal Law by the state, I'm honestly amazed people still attempt it. I think its more for the attention factor rather than actually working to change something, after all if voters are content with a nullification attempt that will obviously fail than why actually go through the trouble of a lengthy court battle over the law that most simple minded folks won't have the attention span to follow or care about?
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Not once in the history of the United States has the Supreme Court upheld a nullification of Federal Law by the state, I'm honestly amazed people still attempt it. I think its more for the attention factor rather than actually working to change something, after all if voters are content with a nullification attempt that will obviously fail than why actually go through the trouble of a lengthy court battle over the law that most simple minded folks won't have the attention span to follow or care about?
I think it would almost definitely be struck down, but the SCOTUS has surprised me before.
 

Anagram

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 10, 2011
Messages
8,856
Reaction score
5,411
Location
St. Louis MO
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Actually, there is no way of knowing that for sure... I can just picture Federal troops storming a local police force and everybody in the country choosing sides and voila--a civil war...
I see a civil war as an extremely unlikely result of one of these types of bills.
 
Top Bottom