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good for her. old lady shoots punk kid

ReverendHellh0und

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Oh, for crying out loud. Are you serious?

She came out onto her porch and fired a gun away from the house, which means towards the street. A city street. With houses on it.

That's all I needed to know.



Then you would be ignorant. Just from your description the only thing in danger other than the kid would be the ground as from her porch the trajectory is most assuredly "down"....
 

OscarB63

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Our justice system does not permit for us to put kids in jail for vandalism, let alone permit them to be shot.

incorrect

Vandalism includes the modification, defacement and willful destruction of public or private property without the owner's knowledge and consent. Vandalism can include graffiti or tagging, but it can also include breaking windows and posting leaflets or brochures on public or private property without permission. In some areas toilet papering property is also considered to be vandalism. There are significantly different issues with vandalism in different areas, so knowing your local vandalism laws is important to avoid any criminal activity. In some areas vandalism laws allow for an enhanced penalty if the act of vandalism falls into the category of a hate crime. This typically includes targeting someone because of their race, color, sexual orientation, religious affiliation or nationality. These types of crimes, either enhanced or simple vandalism, can result in significant fines, restitution ordered, probation and even jail time. In some situations vandalism of public property such as mail boxes, historical sites, parks or monuments carry significant sentences of jail time, even for first time offenders.

juveniles can be sentenced to "jail" for vandalism. as for the part in bold, in many cities the garbage cans are actually owned by the govt and are thus "public property". setting her garbage cans on fire could have landed these punks in juvie for a significant time. of course, depending on the particular laws of that area.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Our justice system does not permit for us to put kids in jail for vandalism, let alone permit them to be shot.

I'm all for second amendment rights and I support the safety of little old ladies. But shooting a kid or several kids because of a brick and a broken window is just beyond the pale. The lady should be locked up for, at the very least, assault on a minor with an aggravated charge since it was a deadly weapon.



but they do for felony arson and assault with a deadly weapon. :prof

Once he refused to drop the brick, you can add menacing to the charges.
 

jallman

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incorrect



juveniles can be sentenced to "jail" for vandalism. as for the part in bold, in many cities the garbage cans are actually owned by the govt and are thus "public property". setting her garbage cans on fire could have landed these punks in juvie for a significant time. of course, depending on the particular laws of that area.

Kids are not sentenced to "jail" for simple vandalism. Please read the part where I said "kids". They may spend time in a juvenile detention center but even that is highly unlikely.

You in no way negated my point that a gunshot wound is an acceptable response to vandalism by a kid.
 

jallman

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but they do for felony arson and assault with a deadly weapon. :prof

Once he refused to drop the brick, you can add menacing to the charges.

Even then, you have to show intent to attack the woman with the brick. A brick in the hand, by itself, is not sufficient evidence of assault or menace.

As for the felony arson claim, show me a charge of felony arson and we have a discussion. Until then, this woman shot a kid with a brick over a broken window. That is the crime here.
 

liblady

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I agree, but she could just have easily hit someone else that had nothing to do with the situation, and that means she did something wrong.

Bullets don't stop just because they hit their intended target -- and this lady says she wasn't trying to hit the kid, which makes the fact that she shot him more dangerous.

it was dangerous, and maybe reckless, but deserved. so let's charge her with some misdeamoner, and put the kid in juvie for awhile.
 

OscarB63

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Kids are not sentenced to "jail" for simple vandalism. Please read the part where I said "kids". They may spend time in a juvenile detention center but even that is highly unlikely.

I saw where you said kids. kids/juveniles same thing. and they may spend time in a juvenile detention center aka jail. so our justice system does allow for kids to go to jail for vandalism.

You in no way negated my point that a gunshot wound is an acceptable response to vandalism by a kid.

and if this was a simple case of vandalism, you would have a valid point.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Even then, you have to show intent to attack the woman with the brick. A brick in the hand, by itself, is not sufficient evidence of assault or menace.


Incorrect my friend. the crime of "menacing" is simply brandishing a weapon in order to "menace" the victim. Given that there was an attempted assault, he being fearful of her life justifies her use of a weapon for self defense.


Here are a couple examples.

GORST: Brick through window hit baby, mother says | Northwest News - The News Tribune

Menacing Law & Legal Definition


Clearly an attempted assault, and menacing. The woman was justified in shooting the kid.

I would almost argue shooting to scare the kid could be considered menacing in certain jurisdictions, she's lucky to have hit him.


As for the felony arson claim, show me a charge of felony arson and we have a discussion. Until then, this woman shot a kid with a brick over a broken window. That is the crime here.

Arson is a Felony Crime


There is a case for all of these things here.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Also to add Jallman and others,

from the article:

"Physically, she got hit with the bricks and she defended herself," she said.



This is felony assault with a deadly weapon. She was justifed.


Remember folks this is south chi-town, if they had a chance they would have raped her on gun charges if they could.
 

TacticalEvilDan

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What if the kid through a brick through my window where I lived and I came out grabbed him and broke his arm in the entailing scuffle. Should I be punished?

No, that would be an accident and not a danger to anyone else.

How about a bat?

A bat is a reasonable response to a brick.

How about I threw a brick at him and killed him?

Now I'm not sure, only because now he's dead. Probably okay with me, but it's in a gray area.


Should I then be punished?[/QUOTE]
 

TacticalEvilDan

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Then you would be ignorant. Just from your description the only thing in danger other than the kid would be the ground as from her porch the trajectory is most assuredly "down"....

realistically: the lady was on her porch. the kids were below her in the street. she pointed the gun in their general direction. had she missed, the bullet would've had to glanced off the pavement at just the right angle to head in a bystander's direction and still maintained dangerous velocity.

the "risk" to the lives of everyone nearby in the neighborhood was minimal.


So I take it neither of you have heard of "ricochet." :lol:

Like I said, bullets don't stop just because you hit what you were looking to hit.
 

jallman

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Incorrect my friend. the crime of "menacing" is simply brandishing a weapon in order to "menace" the victim. Given that there was an attempted assault, he being fearful of her life justifies her use of a weapon for self defense.


Here are a couple examples.

GORST: Brick through window hit baby, mother says | Northwest News - The News Tribune

Menacing Law & Legal Definition


Clearly an attempted assault, and menacing. The woman was justified in shooting the kid.

I would almost argue shooting to scare the kid could be considered menacing in certain jurisdictions, she's lucky to have hit him.

There still has to be intent to use the object as a weapon. Simply holding a brick does not constitute intent to use it as a weapon. Further, these kids haven't been charged with any assaults as far as I can tell.


Arson is a Felony Crime


There is a case for all of these things here.

Show me an arson charge against these kids and then you have a discussion. Until then, felony arson is off the table and is not a defense for this woman shooting a kid.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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No, that would be an accident and not a danger to anyone else.



A bat is a reasonable response to a brick.



Now I'm not sure, only because now he's dead. Probably okay with me, but it's in a gray area.


Should I then be punished?
[/QUOTE]




she was hit with bricks, that's assault with a deadly weapon, a gunshot to the head is indicated. :prof
 

jallman

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Also to add Jallman and others,

from the article:





This is felony assault with a deadly weapon. She was justifed.


Remember folks this is south chi-town, if they had a chance they would have raped her on gun charges if they could.

Physically, I want to see evidence of her getting hit with the brick.
 

jallman

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she was hit with bricks, that's assault with a deadly weapon, a gunshot to the head is indicated. :prof

She CLAIMS whe was hit with the brick. I want to see evidence of that before I give her a pass for shooting a kid.

I know damned well if your kid threw a brick through a window and got shot for it, you would be up in arms about it. I can't believe you're sitting here giving a pass to this woman for shooting a kid.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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There still has to be intent to use the object as a weapon. Simply holding a brick does not constitute intent to use it as a weapon. Further, these kids haven't been charged with any assaults as far as I can tell.


according to the article she was hit with the brick.

also
The boy's charges could land him in juvenile detention for up to a year.


I doubt that's for petty vandalism.


Show me an arson charge against these kids and then you have a discussion. Until then, felony arson is off the table and is not a defense for this woman shooting a kid.



It's one point to a bigger picture of menacing and assault. both of which has a justified response of shooting to defend oneself.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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She CLAIMS whe was hit with the brick. I want to see evidence of that before I give her a pass for shooting a kid.

I know damned well if your kid threw a brick through a window and got shot for it, you would be up in arms about it. I can't believe you're sitting here giving a pass to this woman for shooting a kid.




I'm siding with the chicago police department, who if given the chance would have crucified her due to the use of a firearm.


My kid won't have a history of assaulting old ladies and commiting arson against her property.
 

ReverendHellh0und

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Ruh-roh shaggy,


The boys, however, have been charged as juveniles with aggravated assault of a person over the age of 60 and have been released to their parents, police said.


The woman walked out onto the porch and the boys began shouting obscenities and throwing bricks at her, authorities said. The woman then pulled out a gun and opened fire, striking one of the boys in the shoulder, authorities said.

Woman who shot 12-year-old won't face charges, but boy will - Chicago Breaking News
 

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I like the way you phrased that. Nothing changes how lethal anything is except a change to the properties of the thing itself. :lol:

That said, if you are trying to convince me that a brick is as lethal as a bullet, good luck. Bricks aren't capable of the kind of penetration most bullets are, and bullets typically have a much longer range.

Are you saying you believe that if a brick through a window hits you in the head upon arrival, you'll be unharmed?
 

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OscarB63

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So I take it neither of you have heard of "ricochet." :lol:

Like I said, bullets don't stop just because you hit what you were looking to hit.

what the **** do you think glancing off the pavement is???? derrrrrr, it's a ricochet. the chances of a bullet ricochetting off a city street is practically zip, it would embed in the asphalt unless the angle of entry was incredibly shallow (which would not be the case if you were firing down from an elevated position such as a porch). and if it did happen to hit a concrete curb, etc the velocity would again be so greatly reduced that it wouldn't pose much of a risk unless you were standing right on top of it.
 

Glinda

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Perhaps you can tell me the layout of the neighborhood, and tell me what was in her line of fire. thanks

E 76th St & S Coles Ave, Chicago, Cook, Illinois 60649 - Google Maps

Video here (scroll down).

Margaret Matthews, the 68-year-old Chicago woman who shot a 12-year-old she says bullied her, has no regrets about her actions.

"I was terrified," the South Shore resident tells the Chicago Tribune. "The young man hit me in the chest with a brick. After a year of harassment, that was the straw that broke the camel's back."

Authorities say Matthews, a retired cafeteria worker, returned home Tuesday to find some windows in her house broken. After seeing the boy and his 13-year-old friend running away, she called the police.

When the boys returned, stood atop a shed in the front yard and began swearing and throwing bricks at her, Matthews grabbed a gun and fired a shot, hitting the 12-year-old in the shoulder. --People

Ok. The woman is nearly 70 years old. After months of harassment/vandalism, the local punk flings a brick and hits the old lady in the freakin' chest. The kid comes back later with more bricks. She gets her gun.

This was self defense. I have a hard time believing any court in the land would convict her.



And I'd have done the same thing, only I would have hit all of the little bastard terrorists (shotgun).
 

ReverendHellh0und

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So I take it neither of you have heard of "ricochet." :lol:

Like I said, bullets don't stop just because you hit what you were looking to hit.



but they do slow down and lose velocity at a high rate of speed.


D00d, I used to do this for a living..... Still train folks on it on the side.... It's a risk sure, but once she was hit with a brick, it's irrelevent.
 

OscarB63

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I know damned well if your kid threw a brick through a window and got shot for it, you would be up in arms about it. I can't believe you're sitting here giving a pass to this woman for shooting a kid.


strawman, because any decent parent is going to make sure their kid doesn't get to that point. as has been said many many times in this thread. throwing the brick through the window was not a one time event. It was one in a long line of events of harrassment. If at any time, the kids parents had stepped in and disciplined the little bastard it probably wouldn't have gotten to this point.

but to answer your question:
If my kid had repeatedly, over a course of a year or so, vandalized someone's property and harrassed them and I hadn't cared enough to do anything about it...then I probably wouldn't care enough to complain when the kid got shot. unless, of course, I could sue somebody and get some $$$$.
 
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