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Going to Mars is the dumbest idea any human has ever had

Neomalthusian

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Skipping past what technology would be necessary to get there and then remain there (which we're nowhere close to having, but just pretending that wasn't an issue), there still remains a problem of why any human should go to Mars. Ever. People on Mars would be forced to live permanently in underground 100% self-contained pressurized pods because of the constant bombardment of the planet by deadly solar radiation, its 0.5% of the Earth's atmospheric pressure, plus it has a mere third of Earth's gravity, extremely low temperatures, and no natural resources whatsoever.

Why is anyone claiming we "need" to go there or should go there? Ever under any circumstances?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/opinion/lets-not-move-to-mars.html?_r=0
 

Kobie

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Because we might ****ing learn something.

What an absolutely idiotic question.
 

Grand Mal

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Skipping past what technology would be necessary to get there and then remain there (which we're nowhere close to having, but just pretending that wasn't an issue), there still remains a problem of why any human should go to Mars. Ever. People on Mars would be forced to live permanently in underground 100% self-contained pressurized pods because of the constant bombardment of the planet by deadly solar radiation, its 0.5% of the Earth's atmospheric pressure, plus it has a mere third of Earth's gravity, extremely low temperatures, and no natural resources whatsoever.

Why is anyone claiming we "need" to go there or should go there? Ever under any circumstances?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/opinion/lets-not-move-to-mars.html?_r=0

Philistinism isn't only about art, it's about science too. It's a good goddamn thing people with your attitude have never had any influence in society.
 

chuckiechan

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Mars in the foreseeable future today's rational technology is a death sentence. The biggest of the big problems is lack of energy producing resources - oil, coal, gas, wood. You can't get enough solar panels up there to produce the power needed to "create", not to mention severely destructive weather.

It would be like Columbus landing on a rock. Sure he had food, but no timber, no textiles, no fresh water, no options.
 

matchlight

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I think we would get far more for our money by exploring Mars with unmanned probes.
 

Carjosse

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Why did we go to the moon? Because we could.
 

Neomalthusian

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Philistinism isn't only about art, it's about science too. It's a good goddamn thing people with your attitude have never had any influence in society.

What a weird ass thing to say. I base my argument about why going to Mars is idiotic on known scientific and biological realities given factual things we know about Mars. Then you pop in for a quick blurt about philistinism (by the way, wtf?) and a cheap insult and that's it? Comparing posts #1 and #3, who's really the anti-intellectual?

My position on Mars is not an "attitude." Very concretely and literally, what is on Mars that should give any human any motivation to fly their bodies there, ever?
 

Neomalthusian

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Why did we go to the moon? Because we could.

And why don't we continue going there over and over, or set up colonies there? Because there is zero good reason to try to do so.
 

Captain Adverse

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Skipping past what technology would be necessary to get there and then remain there (which we're nowhere close to having, but just pretending that wasn't an issue), there still remains a problem of why any human should go to Mars. Ever. People on Mars would be forced to live permanently in underground 100% self-contained pressurized pods because of the constant bombardment of the planet by deadly solar radiation, its 0.5% of the Earth's atmospheric pressure, plus it has a mere third of Earth's gravity, extremely low temperatures, and no natural resources whatsoever.

Why is anyone claiming we "need" to go there or should go there? Ever under any circumstances?

Mars Has resources:

many important elements have been detected. Magnesium, Aluminium, Titanium, Iron, and Chromium are relatively common in them. In addition, lithium, cobalt, nickel, copper, zinc, niobium, molybdenum, lanthanum, europium, tungsten, and gold have been found in trace amounts. It is quite possible that in some places these materials may be concentrated enough to be mined.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ore_resources_on_Mars

There are good reasons to go...do the research.

The best reasons involve the development of technology and all the industry for space exploration which would be good for our economy. You know, job creation?
 
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ecofarm

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My position on Mars is not an "attitude." Very concretely and literally, what is on Mars that should give any human any motivation to fly their bodies there, ever?

Ever? The sun is expanding. Mars then Pluto or we're done.
 

Grand Mal

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What a weird ass thing to say. I base my argument about why going to Mars is idiotic on known scientific and biological realities given factual things we know about Mars. Then you pop in for a quick blurt about philistinism (by the way, wtf?) and a cheap insult and that's it? Looking at posts #1 and #3, who's the anti-intellectual?

My position on Mars is not an "attitude." Very concretely and literally, what is on Mars that should give any human any motivation to fly their bodies there, ever?

Hey, maybe it's not Mars that matters but getting there. There was no cheese on the moon but it was a good execise going there, right? Do you think we have no reason to look beyond the atmosphere, no business flexing our techno and scientific muscles just to see what we can accomplish? Every scientific discovery and advance began with something that couldn't be justified, pragmatically.
 

the_recruit

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Because we are explorers.
 

Neomalthusian

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Hey, maybe it's not Mars that matters but getting there.

What?

There was no cheese on the moon but it was a good execise going there, right?

Was it?

Do you think we have no reason to look beyond the atmosphere,

No, I think we have no reason to send humans to the Martian surface, for reasons I've stated.

Every scientific discovery and advance began with something that couldn't be justified, pragmatically.

That's a rather random and untrue thing to say.
 

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Skipping past what technology would be necessary to get there and then remain there (which we're nowhere close to having, but just pretending that wasn't an issue), there still remains a problem of why any human should go to Mars. Ever. People on Mars would be forced to live permanently in underground 100% self-contained pressurized pods because of the constant bombardment of the planet by deadly solar radiation, its 0.5% of the Earth's atmospheric pressure, plus it has a mere third of Earth's gravity, extremely low temperatures, and no natural resources whatsoever.

Why is anyone claiming we "need" to go there or should go there? Ever under any circumstances?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/opinion/lets-not-move-to-mars.html?_r=0

You are missing the reason any person does anything.... because they can
 

Kal'Stang

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1: We actually DO have the technology to get there in a 39 days of travel time. So your article is false right there. Evidence: Manned mission to Mars in 2019

Variable Specific Impulse Magnetoplasma Rocket (VASIMR) is an electro-magnetic thruster, which should bridge the gap between high-thrust, low-specific impulse, and low-thrust, high-specific impulse propulsion systems. It is capable of functioning in either mode. VASIMR is being developed by the Ad Astra Rocket Company, which was founded by the former space shuttle astronaut Franklin Chang-Díaz. A ship with VASIMR and 12 megawatts of electrical power could reach Mars in about four months. With 200 mega watts of electrical power,the outbound trip could be only 39 days.

2: Size of the craft is variable. It doesn't have to be a "personal space the size of an SUV". Your article just uses such idiocy as a form of propaganda to make it seem as worse as possible to persuade the reader to think it would be a horrible trip.

3: Yes, microgravity is a concern as it does reduce bone mass and such. However 39 days worth of travel in such is not even close to having to worry about that. Sergei K. Krikalev spent 2.2 years on the space station. Microgravity can also be alleviated by producing artificial gravity by simply making the craft spin. The artificial gravity via spin won't completely solve problems associated with microgravity bit it will help alleviate them.

4: Since most of his article is based on the long flight time and not the 39 days I'll ignore much of the rest of the article.

5: Is colonizing Mars going to be hard? Hellz yes. But just because something is hard doesn't mean that it shouldn't, or couldn't, be done.

6: There actually IS a need to go out into the solar system whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Over population of the Earth. Let me guess, you scoffed? Like it or not it IS a very real possibility. We know that ANY system is limited in what it can produce and if that system is over loaded then it will fail. Example: What happens when an electrical outlet tries to draw too much power due to plugging too many things into it? It short circuits. That is what's going to happen here on Earth since our population growth is rising. As evidenced here: US Census Bureau ~ World Population Clock There will come a time when the resources that the Earth has will be used up due to over population. So going out into the solar system is a must if we are to eventually reach other stars. Which I believe is possible. We just have to advance more in technology, which we can't do if we listen to people like you and the author of the article. The only way that technology advances is through adversity. What better type of adversity is there than aiming for the stars?
 

Neomalthusian

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Because we might ****ing learn something.

What an absolutely idiotic question.

This is your answer? "Because we might ****ing learn something?" And with that vapid response, you then feel entitled to declare the question "absolutely idiotic?" Talk about irony, Jesus F.C.
 

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Because we might ****ing learn something.

What an absolutely idiotic question.

Actually it's a great question. There's nothing we can't learn using advanced rovers. Meanwhile, all that money could be being spent on common sense applications like asteroid mining/wrangling. I guess the vague hope that there might be something to learn from Mars is a far better way to spend our money than the survival of the human race. Now start posting all the advances that people are silly enough to think would have never happened without the space program.
 

Hawkeye10

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We are not going to mars anytime in my lifetime. Maybe my kids time we will. We will talk about it, we will waste more sig money playing at going, but we will not go.

So I am not going to spend much time on this sci-fi adventure/fantasy.

:violin
 

Kobie

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1: We actually DO have the technology to get there in a 39 days of travel time. So your article is false right there. Evidence: Manned mission to Mars in 2019



2: Size of the craft is variable. It doesn't have to be a "personal space the size of an SUV". Your article just uses such idiocy as a form of propaganda to make it seem as worse as possible to persuade the reader to think it would be a horrible trip.

3: Yes, microgravity is a concern as it does reduce bone mass and such. However 39 days worth of travel in such is not even close to having to worry about that. Sergei K. Krikalev spent 2.2 years on the space station. Microgravity can also be alleviated by producing artificial gravity by simply making the craft spin. The artificial gravity via spin won't completely solve problems associated with microgravity bit it will help alleviate them.

4: Since most of his article is based on the long flight time and not the 39 days I'll ignore much of the rest of the article.

5: Is colonizing Mars going to be hard? Hellz yes. But just because something is hard doesn't mean that it shouldn't, or couldn't, be done.

6: There actually IS a need to go out into the solar system whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Over population of the Earth. Let me guess, you scoffed? Like it or not it IS a very real possibility. We know that ANY system is limited in what it can produce and if that system is over loaded then it will fail. Example: What happens when an electrical outlet tries to draw too much power due to plugging too many things into it? It short circuits. That is what's going to happen here on Earth since our population growth is rising. As evidenced here: US Census Bureau ~ World Population Clock There will come a time when the resources that the Earth has will be used up due to over population. So going out into the solar system is a must if we are to eventually reach other stars. Which I believe is possible. We just have to advance more in technology, which we can't do if we listen to people like you and the author of the article. The only way that technology advances is through adversity. What better type of adversity is there than aiming for the stars?

While overpopulation might lead to the need for extraterrestrial colonization, that's centuries away. However, when one considers the plethora of scientific discovery that has taken place simply by leaving Earth's atmosphere, I can't imagine why any sane person would say "Mars? Nah. Too far away. F that."
 

Kobie

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Ever? The sun is expanding. Mars then Pluto or we're done.

When the sun finally goes (in several BILLION years, mind you), our solar system is entirely cooked.
 

Neomalthusian

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1: We actually DO have the technology to get there in a 39 days of travel time. So your article is false right there. Evidence: Manned mission to Mars in 2019

2: Size of the craft is variable. It doesn't have to be a "personal space the size of an SUV". Your article just uses such idiocy as a form of propaganda to make it seem as worse as possible to persuade the reader to think it would be a horrible trip.

3: Yes, microgravity is a concern as it does reduce bone mass and such. However 39 days worth of travel in such is not even close to having to worry about that. Sergei K. Krikalev spent 2.2 years on the space station. Microgravity can also be alleviated by producing artificial gravity by simply making the craft spin. The artificial gravity via spin won't completely solve problems associated with microgravity bit it will help alleviate them.

4: Since most of his article is based on the long flight time and not the 39 days I'll ignore much of the rest of the article.

The article poked holes in the technological capability, but my post asked why would bother going there. Even if we had all the technology necessary to go there and then survive there indefinitely (and we don't, but like I said, pretending for a moment we did), we'd still lack any reason to go there.

5: Is colonizing Mars going to be hard? Hellz yes. But just because something is hard doesn't mean that it shouldn't, or couldn't, be done.

"Hard?" I'm not arguing it would take more effort than I feel like we should exert, I'm saying there's absolutely nothing the Martian surface offers us that should motivate us to go there.

6: There actually IS a need to go out into the solar system whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Over population of the Earth. Let me guess, you scoffed? Like it or not it IS a very real possibility. We know that ANY system is limited in what it can produce and if that system is over loaded then it will fail.

The Martian "system" can sustain a human population of zero.

So going out into the solar system is a must if we are to eventually reach other stars. Which I believe is possible.

Billions of people believe in deities. I'm aware people believe mythical things. We won't "eventually reach other stars." That's not pessimism, it's just a comprehension of spacetime, energy, human biology and a recognition that the type of technology that would enable that travel through space would be infinitely more valuable utilized right here on Earth. I realize some people feel subjectively happier believing in gods, and others feel subjectively better believing humans will never go extinct and we'll just conquer the universe, but the reality is we're not going to reach other stars or colonize the rest of the solar system or other places in the galaxy or universe. Why? Because if we had technology that ****ing insanely awesome that that was possible, we could survive any goddamn thing that could ever happen to the Earth for another billion or more years.
 
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Hawkeye10

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When the sun finally goes (in several BILLION years, mind you), our solar system is entirely cooked.

Let's try to set our sights on the next 100 years, that is going to be hard enough to make it through........and let's face it, once humans go extinct who gives a flying ****.........
 
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