god

[HU-210]

I take it you don't believe in right or wrong?

Constructs like that, in my belief, do not lend themselves to simple binaries. I do believe in natural and unnatural, but unnatural in my sense of the word is what most refer to as supernatural. God, per example, is an unnatural being.
Morality in a sense is natural, as it follows natural principles of human interaction, but it can become unnatural, when it fights the laws of nature. For example, thou shallt not kill. The concept of racism, of discrimination are all natural presences, natural concepts of making sure 'your' group remains, and competition is eradicated. It's a natural process, and if you have to form a right and wrong, I would have to say that right is natural, wrong is unnatural.
By that measure, everything you wish to do, is by implication right, as long as you have not been corrupted by unnatural values, which sadly most people have. Nietzsche speaks of overcoming, overcoming this corruption.

Anyway, I have no inclination to believe that the complex system of morals I perceive can be reduced to a post-size here. In fact, that's what I love about me and my non-religious life. No where in my belief-system have I attempted to reduce the reality as it is to some comprehensible idea. I do what I feel is right, and internally, my values have been set, based on a plethora of reasons. I am never seducted, because the values I serve do not come from some outside entity, because he told it to be so.

Mr U

 

[kal-el]

I have attempted to explain this. It's making a law for a problem that did not exist before.

You don't have to explain anything. It's good enough for a Christian to admit that they committed incest; laws are irrelevant.

We "instilled" sin into the world.

Perhaps you missed the next part of that chapter"

Yes, the verse you quoted explains that god created everything. He created the earth, the earth contains sin, you do the math. Do yourself a favor and arm yourself with some knowledge before you call one out on this subject, so you don't get your ass handed to you, ok.:lol:

Why should I cry about them? I know where they will eventually be.

Right, I guess you're referring to hell- the burning abyss meant to torture people eternally for their crimes that they have committed in a finite lifetime, in which this "god" fellow created. Let me ask you this, what happens to someone whos behavior was great, he always did the right thing, and constantly strived to help people, but he never heard of Jesus. According to scripture, if he has no faith, he's going to hell, is that right?

He created Satan, but not sin.

So he didn't create everything?

It doesn't say to kill them if they don't pick up there room or anything like that. Just blatant and continuous disrespect.

O, I see. So if a child disrespects his parents, he should be stoned to death, right?

But again your avoiding the real issue.

What? This is what what you said:

Therefore, it only makes sense that God would create a law protecting them from harm to there children.

Now you're making meretricious amplifications, please show me exactly where in the OT, this fella makes any law protecting children from their parents.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

<Murder> is not inherently wrong, but rather, it's wrong because God told us not to do it.

So are you implying that before the bible, people never thought that taking another life was wrong...?


Murder is wrong whether God says so or not, just as taking something that doesnt belong to you is wrong.

Take a look at Buddhist cultures, they have simlilar morals as do christians, but they didnt "get" or "recieve" as you say tablets from "god".

 

[kal-el]

So are you implying that before the bible, people never thought that taking another life was wrong...?

I thought there was no before the bible. Didn't your sky leprechaun create Adam and Eve and that was the beginning?

Murder is wrong whether God says so or not, just as taking something that doesnt belong to you is wrong.

Wow, I'm glad you're being reasonable about this. But how do you explain the fact that in Exodus 21, this god chap is telling us it is perfectly fine to beat our slaves as long as we do not kill them, but then, the sky bloke installs the 10 Commandments? Why would we hold weight in the 10 Commandments as the sound word of god,, when in the preceding passage, he says it's fine to beat slaves? I guess it's fine to beat them, just as long as we do not kill them? What an omnibenevolent diety this is!:lol:

 

[i believe in tranquility]

I thought there was no before the bible. Didn't your sky leprechaun create Adam and Eve and that was the beginning?

Im speaking of the time before the actual book came constructed. When people didnt have this book.

Wow, I'm glad you're being reasonable about this. But how do you explain the fact that in Exodus 21, this god chap is telling us it is perfectly fine to beat our slaves as long as we do not kill them, but then, the sky bloke installs the 10 Commandments? Why would we hold weight in the 10 Commandments as the sound word of god,, when in the preceding passage, he says it's fine to beat slaves? I guess it's fine to beat them, just as long as we do not kill them? What an omnibenevolent diety this is!

Yet again you give an example that has no rellevance in my life as a CHRISTIAN not a JEW. But i see your argument no matter the cause. Jesus was not ok with slaves, so niether am I. Remeber that if my religion had any tint in my view of racism, sexism, etc, FROM Jesus, then in my judgement I wouldnt be what I am (just to let ya know).

 

[kal-el]

Im speaking of the time before the actual book came constructed. When people didnt have this book.

O, ok

Yet again you give an example that has no rellevance in my life as a CHRISTIAN not a JEW.

What does that matter? Why do you believe in the bible if you assert that it was intended for Jews?

But i see your argument no matter the cause. Jesus was not ok with slaves, so niether am I.

That's false. He never condemned slavery, and he had the idealistic oppurtunity, actually, he seemed to deem it appropriatte.:lol: Since you say you're not, I guess you're going against your sky brownie and the carpenter.

Remeber that if my religion had any tint in my view of racism, sexism, etc, FROM Jesus, then in my judgement I wouldnt be what I am (just to let ya know).

What? I thought some Chrstians believe the frivolous notion that Jesus was god incarnate.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

What does that matter? Why do you believe in the bible if you assert that it was intended for Jews?

I dont bielve IN the Bible, I beilve THAT the bible is the word of God. NOw take note that I assert that the OT is more imortant for JEws than Christians. I personally feel that Chirstians today have become obseesed with the OT, and forget the real meaning of what it means to be Christians: to beilve AND FOLLOW Jesus CHrist.

What? I thought some Chrstians believe the frivolous notion that Jesus was god incarnate.

Are you saying: some christians beilve that Jesus IS God?
If you are (which i think is what you said...im not quite sure), than here:

There are different sects of Christianity (lots like:30 or something). Some beilve in the trinity (God, Son, and Spirit as ONE), some beilve that these three are seperated.

I beilve that Jesus is the SON of God, not GOD. But I also beilve that there is a trinity between God, his Son, and the Holy Spirit. Like i mentioned earlier: im quite a different "christian".

 

[kal-el]

I dont bielve IN the Bible, I beilve THAT the bible is the word of God.

Well if you believe in the Christian god, why do you stop when it comes to the bible? After all, it is the bible that is the source for this opaque superstition.

NOw take note that I assert that the OT is more imortant for JEws than Christians.

O, I see. Another theist deflection. Once again, you cannot dismiss one part of the bible, and cling to another. I guess this belief stems from the OT having numerous holes and absurdities in it.:lol:

I personally feel that Chirstians today have become obseesed with the OT, and forget the real meaning of what it means to be Christians: to beilve AND FOLLOW Jesus CHrist.

I agree with this verbalization.

Are you saying: some christians beilve that Jesus IS God?
If you are (which i think is what you said...im not quite sure), than here:

There are different sects of Christianity (lots like:30 or something). Some beilve in the trinity (God, Son, and Spirit as ONE), some beilve that these three are seperated.

The concept of the Trinity is lunacy not supported in scripture. It was never mentioned by any prophets, apostles, or the carpenter himself.

I beilve that Jesus is the SON of God, not GOD. But I also beilve that there is a trinity between God, his Son, and the Holy Spirit. Like i mentioned earlier: im quite a different "christian".

Well I believe that the man named Jesus was just an everyday, run of the mill, average carpenter. Sure he was a nice man, but just a man.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

O, I see. Another theist deflection. Once again, you cannot dismiss one part of the bible, and cling to another. I guess this belief stems from the OT having numerous holes and absurdities in it.

Who can tell me what I want to beilve in. I choose (or "pick") what i think is moral and don't "pick" what i think is immoral.

Well I believe that the man named Jesus was just an everyday, run of the mill, average carpenter. Sure he was a nice man, but just a man.

We are entitled to beilve what we want.

 

[kal-el]

Who can tell me what I want to beilve in. I choose (or "pick") what i think is moral and don't "pick" what i think is immoral.
We are entitled to beilve what we want.

Surely, you can believe what you choose. But know that your belief defies all common sense and logic.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

But know that your belief defies all common sense and logic.

So me believe in peace and harmony for all is defying all common sense and logic. Dont think that just because some call me christian, I dont have other beliefs. Im one of the few "chirstians" that doesnt eat meat, some would say I am buddhist but i tell them i simply translate the teachings of Jesus differently than others.

 

[Inuyasha]

So me believe in peace and harmony for all is defying all common sense and logic. Dont think that just because some call me christian, I dont have other beliefs. Im one of the few "chirstians" that doesnt eat meat, some would say I am buddhist but i tell them i simply translate the teachings of Jesus differently than others.

If you live by your beliefs and they hurt no one then more power to you. Maybe by you believing strongly in peace and tranquility the rest of us might learn something there can't be anything wrong with that. Go for it.

 

[kal-el]

So me believe in peace and harmony for all is defying all common sense and logic. Dont think that just because some call me christian, I dont have other beliefs. Im one of the few "chirstians" that doesnt eat meat, some would say I am buddhist but i tell them i simply translate the teachings of Jesus differently than others.

Whooooahh there buddy. You didn't mention peace and harmony before, you just through that one in there. I was talking about your religious belief. The bible is simply an article of faith. It is an irrational book.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

well peace is what Jesus taught, so yea...i follow peace.

 

[George_Washington]

Do yourself a favor and arm yourself with some knowledge before you call one out on this subject, so you don't get your ass handed to you, ok.:lol:

Kal-El, God didn't create sin. He created humans with free will and sin is just a natural aspect of free will, the knowledge of right and wrong. Saying that God created sin because there is sin in the world is as dumb and ignorant as saying that because Pamela Anderson has breasts, she must have created the silicon that's in them. lmao.

The idea of you handing over someone's ass to them has got to be the most laughable thing I've heard on this board. Like I've said before...stay on the psychiatric drugs. Tell your doctor to increase the dosage...

 

[kal-el]

Kal-El, God didn't create sin.

George, I guess he didn't create everything then?:lol:

He created humans with free will and sin is just a natural aspect of free will, the knowledge of right and wrong.

O, right, free will. If he is all knowing, he already knows what decisions we are going to make, so are destiny is predetermined. And since you claim that humans have "free will" How can god forgive people's sins without infringing on somes "free will?" Unless he forced one to forgive someone else, then he wouldn't be loving, as infringing on one's free will would make this fellow an evil bastard. Anywayz, the bible mentions 3 times that we can't change our destiny. And, he made sinners, for the pleasure of punishing them:

Proverbs 16:4
The lord works out everything for his own ends- even the wicked for a day of disaster.

Saying that God created sin because there is sin in the world is as dumb and ignorant as saying that because Pamela Anderson has breasts, she must have created the silicon that's in them. lmao.

Again, either he created everything, and the bible states this, or he didn't. Choose, and choose carefully. If he created sin, he's not omnibenevolent, and if he didn't, he's not omnipotent, as there is something outside of his control.

The idea of you handing over someone's ass to them has got to be the most laughable thing I've heard on this board. Like I've said before...stay on the psychiatric drugs. Tell your doctor to increase the dosage...

Dude, did you fall off your rocker or something? Seroiously though, I was paraphrasing that to mean the one should not call another out on something he is apprenticed on, or else he'll just serve as a chew toy to anyone who is knowledgable on the said subject. My point is Know what you are arguing.

 

[kal-el]

well peace is what Jesus taught, so yea...i follow peace.

He also condones slavery, and beating slaves. So I guess you are pro slavery.:lol:

 

[i believe in tranquility]

o i didnt see that part where Jesus owned slaves...mabye i missed out on bible study for that one....lol

 

[George_Washington]

George, I guess he didn't create everything then?:lol:

Well, what would logic tell you?

O, right, free will. If he is all knowing, he already knows what decisions we are going to make, so are destiny is predetermined. And since you claim that humans have "free will" How can god forgive people's sins without infringing on somes "free will?" Unless he forced one to forgive someone else, then he wouldn't be loving, as infringing on one's free will would make this fellow an evil bastard. Anywayz, the bible mentions 3 times that we can't change our destiny. And, he made sinners, for the pleasure of punishing them:

:::rolls eyes::: Dude, that quote doesn't mean he's a sadist and created sinners just for his own amusement.

Again, either he created everything, and the bible states this, or he didn't. Choose, and choose carefully. If he created sin, he's not omnibenevolent, and if he didn't, he's not omnipotent, as there is something outside of his control.

Where does it say that God created everything?

 

[kal-el]

o i didnt see that part where Jesus owned slaves...mabye i missed out on bible study for that one....lol

Luke 12:47-48
"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with a few blows."

Here he was speaking to his disciples. He had the oppurtunistic time to condemn slavery, but instead of condemning this prehistoric practice, he seems to not only condone it, but their beating as well.:lol:

 

[i believe in tranquility]

Galatians 3

28(AV)There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for (AW)you are all one in (AX)Christ Jesus.

Did Jesus have any slaves? no. And niether shall I.

 

[kal-el]

Well, what would logic tell you?

You should be the one to talk about logic. Logic tells me he's just a figment in people's imaginations. Man created the notion of god.

:::rolls eyes::: Dude, that quote doesn't mean he's a sadist and created sinners just for his own amusement.

Huh? Did you read the same quote I did? He works out everything, even the wicked for a day of disaster. So, this "god" fellow is sadistic since he created sinners to punish them, and if he did that, it's for his amusement.

Where does it say that God created everything?

Again, imagine that, A Christian who is ignorant on their very own theology.:lol:

Isiah 45:7
I form the light and create darkness; I bring prosperity and create disaster, I, the lord, do all these things.

Exodus 4:11
Then the lord said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the lord?

And this fellow has the gaul to deny handicapped people from approaching him, when he made them that way. What a douchebag.:lol:

 

[kal-el]

Galatians 3

28(AV)There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for (AW)you are all one in (AX)Christ Jesus.

Did Jesus have any slaves? no. And niether shall I.

He didn't own any slaves, but he turned away from them, he didn't condemn them. He was pro-slave beating.

 

[i believe in tranquility]

the last shall be the first, and the first shall be last.

My take on slaves and slavery are here: Some call me "black" (whatever that means to them), so in american society "slavery" effects my life (according to them). Because Jesus didnt have any slaves, niether shall I. Thats my take. I disagree with the whole concept of takings anothers free will, so I refuse to take part in it.

 

[kal-el]

the last shall be the first, and the first shall be last.

My take on slaves and slavery are here: Some call me "black" (whatever that means to them), so in american society "slavery" effects my life (according to them). Because Jesus didnt have any slaves, niether shall I. Thats my take. I disagree with the whole concept of takings anothers free will, so I refuse to take part in it.

Fine, but do you acknowlege from Luke 12:47-48 that the carpenter condoned slavery and slave beating?