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God left out of EU constitution: FRANCE SAYS ‘NO’

RightConservative

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GOD LEFT OUT OF EU CONSTITUTION: FRANCE SAYS ‘NO’
By: J. Grant Swank, Jr.
RightConservative.com 05-31-05

"’This is the first time I am enthusiastic about a French revolution,’ Andre Rouwvoet, of the Protestant ChristenUnie, said. ‘This constitution has no soul. ... They did not want to put a reference to the European Judeo-Christian tradition in. ... This is a rewriting of history of sorts.’"

Lorne Cook of the Agence France-Press reports more detail regarding French voters saying NO to the new European Union constitution. It’s expected that the Netherlands will follow the French negative.

There was much clamor about the EU constitution leaving God out of the document. Pope John Paul II particularly appealed to the writers to be true to European history and include in it a reference to God. However, attempting to be totally secular, the EU writers purposefully deleted any naming of the divine.

Bible scholars who research scriptural prophecy in particular have watched specifically the development of the EU and its potential members’ reaction to its formation. There are those who believe that the present European geography will be the ruling base for the future AntiChrist, biblical detail given symbolically in Revelation 13. A completely secular EU constitution would thereby blend in perfectly with a demonic leader.


Read the full article


Thoughts?
 

shuamort

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It seemed that the reason that France (and possibly the Netherlands) are backing out of the EU Constitution was for nationalist pride/sovereignity and the worry that there would be an influx of cheap labor.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050530/ap_on_re_eu/france_eu_referendum

Chirac argued that the constitution would streamline EU decision-making and make the bloc more accessible to its 450 million citizens. But opponents feared it would strip France of its sovereignty and generous social system and trigger an influx of cheap labor.

They feared the treaty would open the EU to unfettered free-market capitalism, trampling on workers rights.
 

flip2

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There are now 25 member-nations of which the EU is comprised. France had bigger influence and control when it was in its low teens (say 10 . . . the dreaded 10-headed beast described in the Book of Revelation).

With a 12% unemployment rate in that country, I agree with the assessment that it seems 55% of the French were more concerned about the continuing rise of non-citizens entering the workforce and taking low-pay jobs.

There may be a tide of change in France, in which we could see goverment change soon that is more friendly towards the U.S.

The same thing may occur in Germany, as Chancellor Schroeder is facing the same economic challenges as France. A very popular conservative female opposition leader is biting at his feet, and she could ver well be Germany's first female leader, reminiscent of England's Margaret Thatcher....
 

flip2

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Speaking of the EU and the end-times, it is uncanny how the EU is shaping up to be the body of the beast. Nations will rise and fall, but eventually settle on the 10.

Did you know the EU Assembly in Belgium is modeled after the Tower of Babel? And we know what happened to that tower.

The emblem of the EU, a woman riding a bull, is eerily like that described in the Bible in which a woman was raped by a bull, placed on its back, and dumped into the sea to die? Essentially, the emblem of the European Union is "The Rape and Death of Europe."

A large, elaborate throne in which Hitler once showcased and sat upon was moved from Germany into Italy, thus becoming the "Seat of Power, the Throne of AntiChrist."

I'm getting off topic, but thought I'd throw in a little side note to the original post.
 

26 X World Champs

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RightConservative said:
Bible scholars who research scriptural prophecy in particular have watched specifically the development of the EU and its potential members’ reaction to its formation. There are those who believe that the present European geography will be the ruling base for the future AntiChrist, biblical detail given symbolically in Revelation 13. A completely secular EU constitution would thereby blend in perfectly with a demonic leader.

Thoughts?
I think this paragraph, cited above, was all that I needed to read to completely remove any creditability to this post, sorry. The "ruling base for the future Anti-Christ"?

:screwy :cuckoo: :afraid:
 

flip2

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all in good fun (not really). just another way to dismiss the French and the EU. Let us have our fun, dangit! :2razz:
 

Spirit of Nirvana

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Well apparently none of you know your history because the beast described in Revelation was a description of the ancient Roman Empire.
 

GarzaUK

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France said no for several reasons and it was religion originated.

1. Domestic issues. The French economy is stagnent and has been for a few years, plus unemployment has been rising.
2. People want to give Chirac a bloody nose, no one really likes him because of the above, plus he is as crooked as Prince Charles' teeth.
3. People were afraid that the French social system would be replaced by UK captialism. Make France more British. (Funnily the people who don't like it in the UK, are afraid that the UK will be socialized, made more French lol)

Out of all the nations France and Austria are unsure about Turkey. The EU was never seen by the people as a christain organization or state, like the USA - it is secular. Although I think Turkey should get rid of capital punishment before it joins, if it joins.

Let me guess the EU is the beast, so the US most be God's land? lol :roll:
It's going to take decades for a United States of Europe to happen, so you can sleep safely lol. By your logic, China might be the Dragon eh?
 

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Spirit of Nirvana said:
Well apparently none of you know your history because the beast described in Revelation was a description of the ancient Roman Empire.
As Nero was considered an antichrist, the beast described in Revelation that would resurrect itself for the endtimes.

But I digress....
 

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GarzaUK said:
France said no for several reasons and it was religion originated.

Let me guess the EU is the beast, so the US most be God's land? lol :roll:
It's going to take decades for a United States of Europe to happen, so you can sleep safely lol. By your logic, China might be the Dragon eh?
Tongue in cheek comment, I understand. But seriously, a false peace will be offered to the Israelis by the antichrist, who will be head of the the 10 nations. There will be a period of this false peace for 7 years, after which the antichrist will attack "God's people" in Israel and to nations who are friendly towards Zion. Jesus will reveal himself, and a final battle between the antichrist and Jesus will occur in a northern city in Israel called Armageddon.
 

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flip2 said:
Tongue in cheek comment, I understand. But seriously, a false peace will be offered to the Israelis by the antichrist, who will be head of the the 10 nations. There will be a period of this false peace for 7 years, after which the antichrist will attack "God's people" in Israel and to nations who are friendly towards Zion. Jesus will reveal himself, and a final battle between the antichrist and Jesus will occur in a northern city in Israel called Armageddon.
I said it would take decades for a USE to happen, I was wrong, it will probably never happen. The EU is 25 members not 10.

So the EU will attack Isreal and the nations friendly to Zion (USA and emmm, well that's it I think.)

Flip, people for 2000 years have been saying that Armageddon would happen in their lifetime, WW2, WW1, Napoleonic Wars, The Cold War, The Holy Crusades.

The EU has given us something Europe has hardly ever seen, 50 years of peace between European states. So many wars were fought over this continent. Also the EU is responsible for the Western States pouring money into our new Eastern members so they can catch up economically, making a better live for them in their Post-War Era.
The EU love it or not has been a blessing to Europe.
 

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With all do respect Garza, the Bible does say that there WILL be peace with Israel, it will be signed by the one known as the Antichrist. After that happens, that is when the entire world should watch out. The Bible says that the Antichrist will be completely deceiving, and the world will follow him for a time. Then, WHAMMO! The EU may seem like a "blessing" temporarily, but beware. Watch the news over the next few years.
 

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Dennis Miller said:
With all do respect Garza, the Bible does say that there WILL be peace with Israel, it will be signed by the one known as the Antichrist. After that happens, that is when the entire world should watch out. The Bible says that the Antichrist will be completely deceiving, and the world will follow him for a time. Then, WHAMMO! The EU may seem like a "blessing" temporarily, but beware. Watch the news over the next few years.

My point is people since the Death or the resurrection of Christ have been waiting for the end of days.
Europeans thought the US was the beast when it was created coz 13 states was close to the 10 horns business. It was meant to be the Roman Empire when it was written. The battle of Armegeddon was visualized being fought with swords and arrows.
Why Europe? When the EU had 25 horns not 10 lol. Why not America, isn't America trying to being peace to Israel or I'm I wrong there?

It's all pandering speculation with no proof, people have been speculating for millennia that Christ will return in their lifetime. Wasn't the year 2000 meant to be the return of Christ?
Revelations is vague, didn't it say Babylon will burn to the ground in it, but that happened ages ago.
 

shuamort

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Dennis Miller said:
With all do respect Garza, the Bible does say that there WILL be peace with Israel, it will be signed by the one known as the Antichrist.
The Bible does NOT mention Israel as a country. The Bible does however mention Israel as a person (see Genesis).
 

Dennis Miller

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I do not believe that the US is "the beast" that the Bible talks about. I do not claim, as so many others in this world do, that I know, for sure, who or what "the beast" is, however, after carefully studying the Bible and closely watching what is going on in our day and age in international news and politics, I tend to wonder if "the beast" could possibly be the UN. I have wondered this for a few years now.
 

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Dennis Miller said:
I do not believe that the US is "the beast" that the Bible talks about. I do not claim, as so many others in this world do, that I know, for sure, who or what "the beast" is, however, after carefully studying the Bible and closely watching what is going on in our day and age in international news and politics, I tend to wonder if "the beast" could possibly be the UN. I have wondered this for a few years now.
I obviously don't believe in this beast stuff.

But I'm curious why you are so sure that the US is not the beast, yet the UN or EU is? Reasons?
 

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The only reason is that Protestant churches preach stict American nationalism from the pulpits.
 

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I'm no Biblical scholar, so if there are any true scholars out there, please chime in and DEFINITELY correct my interpretations. Let me stress, MY interpretations of the Book of Revelation--as revealed to John--and the EU:

Rv, Ch. 12, describes woman adorned with a crown of 12 stars (flag of EU has 12 stars; the woman can be interpreted as the people or the nations comprising the EU as a whole). The woman, later described in Ch. 17 is raped by the kings of the earh, drunk with power. She becomes a harlot for her many dubious acts, riding on the back of the scarlet beast. This can be interpreted as the desecration of the EU by the leaders, and the people who pledge solidarity with them.

Rv, Chs. 13 and 17 go on to describe the first beast as having 7 heads and 10 horns. the 7 heads represent the hills (or nations or kings). 5 have fallen, one is still alive, and one is yet to come. the 10 horns described are kings who have not been crowned, but will assume great authority and be of one mind, but give all power and authority to the beast (17:12, 13). The second beast will possess the same powers as the first beast in the presence of the beast (the 2nd beast being the false prophets, perhaps prime ministers or unholy priests that accompany the first beast--kings or presidents). Ch. 13, Verse 18 also describes the mark of the beast, 666, which is a number that stands for a person. What is Chirac's middle name? J/K. It may stand for the number of letters in one's name, or ranking of some sort, or chronological order of power?

The woman will give birth to a male child, who will be saved by God and sent to Heaven, returning to kill the beast (perhaps the second birth of Jesus as man?) After being sent down back to earth by Michael and the angels, the beast and its angels will seek the woman, but she was sent to the desert (a reference as a place of refuge for prayer and devotion to God) to be hidden from the beast. Having not found her, Ch.13 says the beast will seek the woman's offspring and do battle with them (the individual Christian will be persecuted by the beast).

I have listened and read writings of theologians, scholars, and conspiracy theorists (yes, i admit that) that Christians will know which of the 7 heads of the beast will be the one (antichrist) to offer Israel the false peace accord for 7 years. "[John] saw that one of its heads seemed to have been mortally wounded, but this mortal wound was healed. Fascinated, the whole world followed after the beast" (13:3).

The Book of Revelations describes the beast that John saw as existing once but now exists no longer is correctly alluded--noted by one of the posters--to Nero during ancient, empirical Rome. It is believed an empircal rule will rise again.
 

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GarzaUK said:
France said no for several reasons and it was religion originated.

1. Domestic issues. The French economy is stagnent and has been for a few years, plus unemployment has been rising.
2. People want to give Chirac a bloody nose, no one really likes him because of the above, plus he is as crooked as Prince Charles' teeth.
3. People were afraid that the French social system would be replaced by UK captialism. Make France more British. (Funnily the people who don't like it in the UK, are afraid that the UK will be socialized, made more French lol)

Out of all the nations France and Austria are unsure about Turkey. The EU was never seen by the people as a christain organization or state, like the USA - it is secular. Although I think Turkey should get rid of capital punishment before it joins, if it joins.

Let me guess the EU is the beast, so the US most be God's land? lol :roll:
It's going to take decades for a United States of Europe to happen, so you can sleep safely lol. By your logic, China might be the Dragon eh?
Ok, I think that I am going to take your word for it because you are from there and can more acurately gauge the feeling. I doubt Turkey will get rid of capital punishment because it has high approval ratings from what I remember.

Let's make this clear to everyone in the thread, most everyone said no for secular reasons as Europe is far more secular than the United States. This was nationalistic pride and fear of economic problems in my opinion.
 

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flip2 said:
There are now 25 member-nations of which the EU is comprised. France had bigger influence and control when it was in its low teens (say 10 . . . the dreaded 10-headed beast described in the Book of Revelation). ....
You're insane

flip2 said:
With a 12% unemployment rate in that country, I agree with the assessment that it seems 55% of the French were more concerned about the continuing rise of non-citizens entering the workforce and taking low-pay jobs.....
Incorrect unemployment figure. It stands at 10.1%. It is the thorn in the French economy, which grew by 2.5% last year. However, one must remember that married women who don't work are considered eligible for work, hence included in this figure, unlike in many countries where a married woman would have to physically register for work to be included in the figures.

flip2 said:
There may be a tide of change in France, in which we could see goverment change soon that is more friendly towards the U.S......
It's not the French attitude you need to be concerned with. It's your own. Europe no longer trusts the US and wants to distance itself. Bush has made you the most hated nation on earth. Condominium Rice's desperate arse licking missions to Europe did very little. The Spanish gave you the finger and Blairs time is limited. The Brits hate him for his collaboration with the lying Bush. You'll be on your own, except for Poland. Get used to it.
 

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I think Europe started distancing from the United States well before George W. Bush took office.

10.1%, 12%, it's still an atrocious unemployment rate. Cheaper labor entering the workforce--we face the same problem here in America. It's called hiring illegal immigrants.

Did you read the biblical assessment? Perhaps you should read it, or read the Book of Revelation and analyses of it. It is startling.

Western Europe may not like the United States. But those former Soviet Satellite nations have not forgotten our efforts to help bring liberty to their countries.

The EU is clearly trying to compete economically with the U.S. And you guys are doing a great job. Our dollar is cheaper than the Euro. Our trade deficit is atrocious. But not everything is confirmed by money.
 

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Flip,

You using the Bible as a reference is considered invalid when talking to an anti-religious person like Franklin. She couldn't care less about Christianity or any religion for that matter.
 

Urethra Franklin

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flip2 said:
Did you read the biblical assessment? Perhaps you should read it, or read the Book of Revelation and analyses of it. It is startling. .
I read the bible many times, by force, at school. It contains about as much truth as Debbie Does Dallas. Why should I want to read it again?
flip2 said:
Western Europe may not like the United States. But those former Soviet Satellite nations have not forgotten our efforts to help bring liberty to their countries..
They owe their liberty largely to Gorbachev, Walesa, Havel and to their own courage. With the exception of Poland (can't expect clear thinking in such a fanatically catholic country), they all hate the US political machine too. They see their future in the EU.
flip2 said:
The EU is clearly trying to compete economically with the U.S. And you guys are doing a great job. Our dollar is cheaper than the Euro. Our trade deficit is atrocious. But not everything is confirmed by money.
I agree that we shouldn't judge a nation's perfomance on money alone, or indeed by standard economic indicators which tell us nothing about the life of the people. As I've said before: USA, first economy in the world, but what does that mean to the unemployed black in south central LA? Very little in a national of pitiful welfare programmes and health care only for those who can pay.

You single?
 
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