God Has No Place In Politics

[4Horsemen]

Do you have evidence for this? I feel like this is going to start another "Stalin / Pol Pot were atheists."

And, atheists don't lack a moral compass, we lack the Christian moral compass.

check the history., has an Atheist ever ruled a land? I rest my case.

 

[tech30528]

Nonfactual opinions have no place in the legal world, it's an attempt to turn fantasy into reality.
Which can't happen, no matter how much you want it to be.

Facts > opinions any and every time

Tell that to the Global Warming crowd.

 

[tech30528]

And, atheists don't lack a moral compass, we lack the Christian moral compass.

I've stated this here before. Being an atheist or agnostic does not make someone a bad person. But in order to behave in a way that we know is wrong we need to first remove guilt. The easiest way to do that is to remove judgment, and the easiest way to do that is to put ourselves at the top of our own accountability. So when I see an active initiative to remove God (think the recent DNC) I have to wonder why. Anyone who is behaving in a moral way would not be offended by God since they would not be in conflict and would be neutral in their opinion of God. Feeling the need to eliminate God points to another purpose. It is not the atheism that worries me, it is the purpose of the atheist.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

check the history., has an Atheist ever ruled a land? I rest my case.

Doesn't mean they can't. Until VERY recently, atheists were forced in to seclusion. They weren't free to speak their mind.

I've stated this here before. Being an atheist or agnostic does not make someone a bad person. But in order to behave in a way that we know is wrong we need to first remove guilt. The easiest way to do that is to remove judgment, and the easiest way to do that is to put ourselves at the top of our own accountability. So when I see an active initiative to remove God (think the recent DNC) I have to wonder why. Anyone who is behaving in a moral way would not be offended by God since they would not be in conflict and would be neutral in their opinion of God. Feeling the need to eliminate God points to another purpose. It is not the atheism that worries me, it is the purpose of the atheist.

What's your argument? What purpose does this point to? Are you saying atheists have a hidden agenda?

 

[Harshaw]

Doesn't mean they can't. Until VERY recently, atheists were forced in to seclusion. They weren't free to speak their mind.

Depending on what you mean, I don't know that this is true.

What's true is that historically, there have been very few of them, so a lack of a strong atheist voice tends to come from a lack of significant numbers.

 

[vermae]

God created this world for His benefit.When We take God out of politics we will do anything.We have no guidelines.We are on our way to complete downfall.

 

[joko104]

Whether or not a particular founding father believed religion or God was or is necessary for the founding of a constitutional Republic and its continued existence is not really relevant to the argument. People have been citing back and forth, picking quotes from individuals that suit their particular perspective. It's especially easy to do considering how many people we have to draw from. But again, it's irrelevant. Because arguing about whether or not religion has a place in politics or in government cannot be proven by appealing to the good name of a more than two centuries dead founding father. If you think religion is or is not required or should or should not have a place in our civil society you need to make arguments based upon contemporary merits. Forgive my irreverence but George Washington didn't know what a blood cell was let alone the finer points of neuroscience and evolutionary psychology. Considering the veil of ignorance our founders operated under, it might not be wise to use them to assert our positions.

So you are troubled by President Obama explaining how he "walks with God every day" and his oft explaining how much his religious beliefs affect his decisions? How delusional is someone who claims he "walks with God?" I wonder which one of the two he things is the superior? Is Obama completely insane?

 

[joko104]

God created this world for His benefit.When We take God out of politics we will do anything.We have no guidelines.We are on our way to complete downfall.

What "benefit?" Entertainment?

 

[tech30528]

Doesn't mean they can't. Until VERY recently, atheists were forced in to seclusion. They weren't free to speak their mind.



What's your argument? What purpose does this point to? Are you saying atheists have a hidden agenda?

Not necessarily. But those who seek to remove personal responsibility would certainly prefer it.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Depending on what you mean, I don't know that this is true.

What's true is that historically, there have been very few of them, so a lack of a strong atheist voice tends to come from a lack of significant numbers.

True. But prominent atheists were publicly condemned.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Not necessarily. But those who seek to remove personal responsibility would certainly prefer it.

:lol: ... :roll:

Most atheists I know (including myself) have a moral compass guided by personal responsibility. The degree which it relies on personal responsibility varies, however. Humanists, for instance, say you have a personal responsibility to your fellow humans.

 

[tech30528]

:lol: ... :roll:

Most atheists I know (including myself) have a moral compass guided by personal responsibility. The degree which it relies on personal responsibility varies, however. Humanists, for instance, say you have a personal responsibility to your fellow humans.

I hear you. I was an atheist myself for about 20 years having been raised Catholic. If that bastardized system of Christianity used to control the masses doesn't make you an atheist nothing will. I wasn't a bad guy, I treated people fairly to the best of my understanding, I even had good friends challenge my claim of atheism based on my actions. Eventually I ended up looking back in to it after my son was born (Christianity, not Catholicism) and have been with it for a several years now, and the things I have learned since then (along with application) have showed me what I was missing.

Look, being an atheist may be a matter of choice, it may be a logical conclusion based on lack of information or on strict application of logic. The second was my issue. Faith is not logical. There are some big gaps that need to be bridged or understood less literally or more accurately based on original intent that has been lost in translation. There are parts of it I still can't accept. But people don't come to faith because they have all the answers, it is a process. I used to think people acted a certain way to prove their faith, I had it backward. Behavior does not lead to faith, faith changes behavior.

Anyway we are a bit off subject. My point is that someone intent on acting in a way they know to be wrong will find it within their interests to assuage their guilt by doing away with their faith. Lack of faith is not the problem. Abandoning faith in order to not feel guilt for actions we know are wrong is the problem.

 

[vermae]

Why do people play with God? Did man create this world?If so why don"t you have all the answers?. There is someone greater than us snd we might as well own up to it.

 

[digsbe]

My religious beliefs absolutely have a place in my vote. A church/religious organization has no business running the government, but the morals and beliefs (religious or otherwise) of the populace absolutely have a place in politics and voting.

 

[Surtr]

Why do people play with God? Did man create this world?

Which God? There are many god(s) credited with creating the earth, from Odin, Vili, and Vi, to Gaia, and even some god's water beetle.

If so why don"t you have all the answers?.

Answers to what?

There is someone greater than us snd we might as well own up to it.

So, just say **** it and let "Jesus take the wheel", along with every power hungry pastor to rule the nation like Khomeini? Wonderful plan, I bet 6 bucks they bring back the brazen bull.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

My religious beliefs absolutely have a place in my vote. A church/religious organization has no business running the government, but the morals and beliefs (religious or otherwise) of the populace absolutely have a place in politics and voting.

Such as Paul Ryan mentioning "our rights come from God or nature, not from government?"

 

[zgoldsmith23]

I hear you. I was an atheist myself for about 20 years having been raised Catholic. If that bastardized system of Christianity used to control the masses doesn't make you an atheist nothing will. I wasn't a bad guy, I treated people fairly to the best of my understanding, I even had good friends challenge my claim of atheism based on my actions. Eventually I ended up looking back in to it after my son was born (Christianity, not Catholicism) and have been with it for a several years now, and the things I have learned since then (along with application) have showed me what I was missing.

What were you missing? My friends challenge my atheism all the time and they continually can't keep up. It always turns into them getting defensive and trying to equivocate.

Look, being an atheist may be a matter of choice, it may be a logical conclusion based on lack of information or on strict application of logic. The second was my issue. Faith is not logical. There are some big gaps that need to be bridged or understood less literally or more accurately based on original intent that has been lost in translation.

That's a slippery slope. "Officer - I took the law a little less literal."

There are parts of it I still can't accept. But people don't come to faith because they have all the answers, it is a process. I used to think people acted a certain way to prove their faith, I had it backward. Behavior does not lead to faith, faith changes behavior.

It sure does! Attorney: Woman thought God told her to kill sons - CNN

Anyway we are a bit off subject. My point is that someone intent on acting in a way they know to be wrong will find it within their interests to assuage their guilt by doing away with their faith. Lack of faith is not the problem. Abandoning faith in order to not feel guilt for actions we know are wrong is the problem.

You make the false premise of assuming there is a "wrong."