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God Given Rights ?

Dragonfly

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What are they?

What "rights" are "god given"?

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?

Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Hopefully most here will ignore those types of comments.
 
What are they?

What "rights" are "god given"?

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?

Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Hopefully most here will ignore those types of comments.

Life, Liberty and Estate
 
We humans are arrogant things.
 
Life, Liberty and Estate

What exactly does "Estate" mean?

Liberty? So all that slavery was what then?

Life? So the Noah and the flood thing, where god flooded and subsequently killed almost all life and the planet was what? Or when god sent angels to kill the first born?
 
Let’s start here:

“1. Natural Law and Natural Rights
Perhaps the most central concept in Locke’s political philosophy is his theory of natural law and natural rights. The natural law concept existed long before Locke as a way of expressing the idea that there were certain moral truths that applied to all people, regardless of the particular place where they lived or the agreements they had made. The most important early contrast was between laws that were by nature, and thus generally applicable, and those that were conventional and operated only in those places where the particular convention had been established. This distinction is sometimes formulated as the difference between natural law and positive law.

Natural law is also distinct from divine law in that the latter, in the Christian tradition, normally referred to those laws that God had directly revealed through prophets and other inspired writers. Natural law can be discovered by reason alone and applies to all people.......”

Locke’s Political Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
 
I like Woody Allen’s quote: “Showing up is 98% of life.”

In other words, once you’re here, you have a right to be here, so make the best of it and try to be satisfied with where you’re at and what you’re doing at any particular time.
 
All rights are God-given...He gives life...
 
So if rights are given by God why did it take Christianity sooooo long to figure that out? Truth is, if you if you want to thank some one for your rights, don't thank a Christian, go thank that Baphomet worshiping Freemason over there.
 
What are they?
An indivudal right whose authority supersedes that of the state.

First, there are two structures to "rights", privileges & protections.
No, right which is a 'privilege' can be "god given".

So, if say. A court recognizes you have the "right to food, water and safe shelter". That is a privilege. It is extends from the state to those it deems:

One could attempt to apply as a protection, say by putting restrictions on prosecution where in the intention is to obtain this basic need, but it wouldn't work. Even if the courts would let off bread thieves or squatters. It is inevitable in of absence of a remedy in the courts. People will feel compelled to enforce natural justice. This may seem subjective, and to some extend it is…but there are foundational ideas at play here.

Of course, this is rarely an issue as such rights are in fact viewed as privileges, wherein this is simple. The state has a legal obligation to provide these basic needs to it citizenry. This creates no further legal issues. If people don't like it, they can reform it.
Kings, governors, administration who fail their obligation will face penalty or have their authority removed.
A modern example of such a privilege right is the right to vote. Keeping in mind, such a right derives itself from more foundational god given rights such as that of personal liberty/agency. One can be without suffrage and still an agent of their own actions….

Now, protective right subtlety is where this concept gets teeth.
Let contrast two rights, one "god given" and one "state given".

"Right to healthcare" - state given
"Right to free speech" - god given

First, both are not absolute. There is some speech that will be criminal - say, ordering the murder of another. There will always be a limit on healthcare - if a doctor request you seek different treatment. How those limits are derived though are important.

Where as healthcare requires the action of the state/community/other. Free speech does not. So although both are legislatively limited and administered by the state, they are not equal. Free speech is god given, and it's thus is the just responsibility of the state not to infringe; lest 'the people' have the just right to nullify/overthrow it for tyranny. Contrast this too 'right to healthcare' which although can be in many contexts seem protective as there is no real victim, is still is at the complete discretion of other particpating parties. There is no authority outside that which is given. It is by nature still a legal privilege.

This was important, as of the founding of the united states, as the revolutionary war was justified as a just war in being for the recognition and protection of these natural rights against legal and lawful authority(you may notice we adopted much English law). You may imagine, such an honour need be highly restrictive lest America would be fighting a revolution every other year.

What "rights" are "god given"?
There are lots. Rooted in the idea of personal agency. Where can others/government justly infringe on our natural ability to be an individual?

You see traditionally, one's 'rights' derived from their family(everything is privilege). Not their individual nature. State privileges were earned honours for some families and not others...you were meaningless, family honor was justice.

As gods become God, and Christian universalism overtook tribal idenity: so came the radical idea that since all authority came from a single God, and that God saw all as equal regardless of family/creed: any person could be 'privileged' indeed these differences we observe were entirely manmade. So in was this language born to counter the legal arguments of the 'divine right of kings' of which it wresled in its early days.

And sure call "God-given rights", natural rights / negative rights…it doesn't really matter.
It's about the core principle of where the authority of the state is limited on the individual.

Of course, calling them natural rights. You ignore it is actually more natural to do it by family/group(realpoltik, to the strong go the spoils), but whatever…

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?
In concept everyone. It was a new radical concept from very recent human history though, so obviously the norms of traditional privileges of families seem too important to just throw away -- but with time we've seen the transformation where now very few have serious violation of their god-given rights in the west. That said, such progress has been losing ground for years as 'identity-group-rights' are now growing and the concept of god-given individual rights fading.

In a world of 'identity-group-rights' there is no such thing as God-given rights as there is no presumption of individual agency. Just as it was before, you may be a woman but 'womens right' is more important.
 
So if rights are given by God why did it take Christianity sooooo long to figure that out? Truth is, if you if you want to thank some one for your rights, don't thank a Christian, go thank that Baphomet worshiping Freemason over there.

This brand of Christianity you're talking about, did you ever ask yourself if they're truly following Jesus' teachings? If not, can they really be called true Christians?
 
Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Someone might say that it is you who is being lazy and uninterested in debate/dialogue, if you refuse to read the Bible, but insist on arguing, with those who believe in it, about what they believe.
 
Someone might say that it is you who is being lazy and uninterested in debate/dialogue, if you refuse to read the Bible, but insist on arguing, with those who believe in it, about what they believe.

Who said he didn't read the bible?
 
All rights are God-given...He gives life...

I think George Carlin had the proper response to that claim

Here’s one more item for you, the last in our civics book: Rights. Boy, everyone in this country is always running around yammering about their ****ing rights. I have a right, you have no right, we have a right, they don’t have a right… Folks, I hate to spoil your fun but-there’s no such thing as rights, okay? They’re imaginary. We made them up! Like the Boogie Man… the Three Little Pigs, Pinocchio, Mother Goose, **** like that. Rights are an idea, they’re just imaginary, they are a cute idea, cute… but that’s all, cute, and fictional. But if you think you do have rights, let me ask you this, where do they come from? People say, well, they come from God, they’re God-given rights… Aw xxxx, here we go again… here we go again. [laughing] The God excuse. The last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument, it came from God. Anything we can’t describe, must have come from God.

Personally, folks, I believe that if your rights came from God, he would have given you the right to have some food every day, and he would have given you the right to a roof over your head, God would have been looking out for you. [applause] God would have been looking out for you. [applause] You know that? He wouldn’t have been worrying about making sure you have a gun so you can get drunk on Sunday night and kill your girlfriend’s parents.
 
Who said he didn't read the bible?
My comment was meant to be general to anyone who wants to argue against any scripture, but can't imagine reading it. However, I highly doubt he's read the Bible. The chances are low.:shrug:
 
My comment was meant to be general to anyone who wants to argue against any scripture, but can't imagine reading it. However, I highly doubt he's read the Bible. The chances are low.:shrug:

I wouldn't bet on that.

I find that many atheists know the bible better than many Christians. I don't know about Dragonfly, but a number of ex-CHristians told me they lost their faith because they read the bible.
 
I wouldn't bet on that.

I find that many atheists know the bible better than many Christians. I don't know about Dragonfly, but a number of ex-CHristians told me they lost their faith because they read the bible.
If I said I reject the theory of evolution, would your acceptance of the validity of my judgment depend on whether I studied about evolution or not? Or would you just dismiss me as a fool because you've already made up your own mind and mine differs? Are you sure you're not just compulsively trying to count more and more people as being on your side to make you feel more secure?
 
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