God Given Rights ?

[devildavid]

All rights are God-given...He gives life...

So, name them all.

 

[RAMOSS]

If I said I reject the theory of evolution, would your acceptance of the validity of my judgment depend on whether I studied about evolution or not? Or would you just dismiss me as a fool because you've already made up your own mind and mine differs? Are you sure you're not just compulsively trying to count more and more people as being on your side to make you feel more secure?

Why, I would ask 'why evidence do you have that falsifies the theory'. There is a big difference between using a religious text, and using a scientific theory you know. Scientific theories have specific criteria to falsify them. Religious texts, not so much. In other words, you are comparing two things that are entirely unequal, so that give the logical fallacy of 'weak analogy'.

 

[Valery]

Why, I would ask 'why evidence do you have that falsifies the theory'. There is a big difference between using a religious text, and using a scientific theory you know. Scientific theories have specific criteria to falsify them. Religious texts, not so much. In other words, you are comparing two things that are entirely unequal, so that give the logical fallacy of 'weak analogy'.

That's your opinion. For me — because I know the truth — scripture is number one, science is number.....17? 554? 1795? You know, way over there somewhere. But you're free to obsess over it..

 

[RAMOSS]

That's your opinion. For me — because I know the truth — scripture is number one, science is number.....17? 554? 1795? You know, way over there somewhere. But you're free to obsess over it..

Shrug. No, I spoke the truth. I was not ranking scripture vs scientific theory. And, if you want to discuss scripture without being challenged about the existence of god, or the valdiity of the passages, there is a theology section. I bet though many of the skeptics here know a lot more than you think they do.

When it comes to scriptures , there are two issues.

1) Is the interpretation/translation you using correct, and the passage properly translated and in context?

2) Does the piece of writing have any truth in it to begin with.

 

[Sweden]

Life, Liberty and Estate

Estate ? Didn't god say it's easier for a rich man to get through the eye of a needle than get to heaven? He didn't sound too keen on property - I'ld put him down as a Sanders supporter.

 

[Sweden]

If I said I reject the theory of evolution, would your acceptance of the validity of my judgment depend on whether I studied about evolution or not? Or would you just dismiss me as a fool because you've already made up your own mind and mine differs? Are you sure you're not just compulsively trying to count more and more people as being on your side to make you feel more secure?

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but I dismissed your posts as foolishness quite a while ago. Evolution is not a matter of opinion or of 'judgement' but of fact. Just like the periodic table, say.

 

[Valery]

I'm sorry to have to tell you this but I dismissed your posts as foolishness quite a while ago. Evolution is not a matter of opinion or of 'judgement' but of fact. Just like the periodic table, say.

The fact is that the theory of evolution is not a fact. That's why they call it a theory.

 

[RAMOSS]

The fact is that the theory of evolution is not a fact. That's why they call it a theory.

Of course, do you know that the 'theory of evolution' describes the mechanism behind the 'fact of evolution? Just like the theory of gravity describes WHY gravity works the way it does?

 

[watsup]

Of course, do you know that the 'theory of evolution' describes the mechanism behind the 'fact of evolution? Just like the theory of gravity describes WHY gravity works the way it does?

Exactly.

 

[Valery]

Of course, do you know that the 'theory of evolution' describes the mechanism behind the 'fact of evolution? Just like the theory of gravity describes WHY gravity works the way it does?

How could I "know" something that isn't true?

 

[Wayne Jr]

What are they?

What "rights" are "god given"?

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?

Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Hopefully most here will ignore those types of comments.

God-given rights are Natural Rights, which, by definition, are inalienable. Since we can prove that any right which you can name, can be taken from you or given up freely, no right is inalienable, which means no right is God-given.

The only right anyone really has is the right to determine your own attitude, but even that can be taken away from you with drugs.

 

[Dragonfly]

Someone might say that it is you who is being lazy and uninterested in debate/dialogue, if you refuse to read the Bible, but insist on arguing, with those who believe in it, about what they believe.

My comment was meant to be general to anyone who wants to argue against any scripture, but can't imagine reading it. However, I highly doubt he's read the Bible. The chances are low.:shrug:

First of all, I notice you haven’t even begun to try to answer the question.

Second, I’m asking for personal opinions, not cut and paste jobs. There are members here who almost never post something from their own mind. They resort to posting a quote, then insisting if you don’t “get it” (because it obviously takes many hoops to jump through to understand the interpretation) it’s your fault and not theirs. You get the, “I’m sorry you’re not smart enough to understand what its saying” response.

Third, how many variations and interpretations of the bible are there in the world today? 50? More?
What about the Quran, Vedas, Tipitaka, Agamas, Talmud, Kojiki, Lun Yu, and any other religious text that’s out there?
If there are rights that come from god, I would certainly expect them to be mentioned in more places than just one specific text.

Lastly, not that you deserve to be told this, but yes, I’ve read the bible (many moons ago).
I was born and raised in a Presbyterian family (from the deep south – bible belt) and forced to attend church, and Sunday School on a very regular basis for my entire life from toddler until I was almost a legal adult.
Baptized and the whole ball of wax.

So – are you now going to start responding to the questions in the OP, or are you going to continue to attack me from a position of complete ignorance?

Are there actually rights from god? What are those rights?

 

[Valery]

First of all, I notice you haven’t even begun to try to answer the question.

Second, I’m asking for personal opinions, not cut and paste jobs. There are members here who almost never post something from their own mind. They resort to posting a quote, then insisting if you don’t “get it” (because it obviously takes many hoops to jump through to understand the interpretation) it’s your fault and not theirs. You get the, “I’m sorry you’re not smart enough to understand what its saying” response.

Third, how many variations and interpretations of the bible are there in the world today? 50? More?
What about the Quran, Vedas, Tipitaka, Agamas, Talmud, Kojiki, Lun Yu, and any other religious text that’s out there?
If there are rights that come from god, I would certainly expect them to be mentioned in more places than just one specific text.

Lastly, not that you deserve to be told this, but yes, I’ve read the bible (many moons ago).
I was born and raised in a Presbyterian family (from the deep south – bible belt) and forced to attend church, and Sunday School on a very regular basis for my entire life from toddler until I was almost a legal adult.
Baptized and the whole ball of wax.

So – are you now going to start responding to the questions in the OP, or are you going to continue to attack me from a position of complete ignorance?

Are there actually rights from god? What are those rights?

Well aren't you sensitive. I'd like to talk, but I don't understand what "rights" means here.

 

[RAMOSS]

How could I "know" something that isn't true?

There are two reasons. 1) you are incorrect , and 2) you are ignorant of science. Evidence shows both those to be true.

 

[RAMOSS]

Well aren't you sensitive. I'd like to talk, but I don't understand what "rights" means here.

The lack of understanding doesn't seem to be dragonfly's problem.

 

[OlNate]

What are they?

What "rights" are "god given"?

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?

Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Hopefully most here will ignore those types of comments.

Sup, Dragonfly, long time no see.

I think "god given" rights refer to natural rights, or rights that we are born with. Presumably the person who coined the term was a Christian, and would see anything we are born with as "god given" - it's a differentiation from rights given by human beings, I don't think there are any "rights" referred to in the Bible. I found the following article upon doing a quick Google search - just skimmed it, not vouching for it's theology, but I don't see anything too problematic in there.

What is a biblical view of human rights?

 

[Drowning Man]

There are no "God-given rights". Any rights that you think that you have, can be taken away by an oppressive government.

It's a nice concept...and perhaps something we should aspire to, but falls woefully short in reality.

 

[noonereal]

What are they?

What "rights" are "god given"?

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?

Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Hopefully most here will ignore those types of comments.

read the bible, lol

 

[gboisjo]

Rights boil down to rules ..rules are established, organized and regulated by socially produced systems. Just like monkeys and lions we
do whats best for the collective. Its all about our nature, nothing else.

 

[Dragonfly]

I'd like to talk, but I don't understand what "rights" means here.

It means whatever YOU think it means.

You define "rights".
You define "god".

 

[Noodlegawd]

What are they?

What "rights" are "god given"?

Also, who are they given to? Is anyone left out from these rights?

Anyone who simply says: "Read the bible and you'll know" is just being lazy and not interested in debate/dialogue.
Hopefully most here will ignore those types of comments.

The idea that human rights are some kind of preexisting condition, or a law of nature, is totally absurd.

The natural order of things is "might makes right" and for the vast majority of human history there were no widely recognized human rights other than what people had the power to take. We (Western civilization) obtained widespread human rights because we collectively decided that we wanted them for ourselves and everyone else, we took them for ourselves, and we established and maintained the power to protect them. It would be foolish to think that these rights will magically remain and no one will take them away from us if we let our guard down, when in reality there are still people out there who will do that the minute we give them the chance.

 

[RAMOSS]

Sup, Dragonfly, long time no see.

I think "god given" rights refer to natural rights, or rights that we are born with. Presumably the person who coined the term was a Christian, and would see anything we are born with as "god given" - it's a differentiation from rights given by human beings, I don't think there are any "rights" referred to in the Bible. I found the following article upon doing a quick Google search - just skimmed it, not vouching for it's theology, but I don't see anything too problematic in there.

What is a biblical view of human rights?

Can you show we had ANY rights we were born with? The use of the rhetoric 'natural' seem to be quite a misnomer

 

[Daisy]

Rights boil down to rules ..rules are established, organized and regulated by socially produced systems. Just like monkeys and lions we
do whats best for the collective. Its all about our nature, nothing else.

The United Nations defines human rights as “those rights which are inherent in our nature and without which we cannot live as human beings.”

Article 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says that “all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. ”

Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 25 states “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including...housing.”​

The Bible testifies to the fact that the conscience is inherent in man, having been made part of him by God, being an inward realization or sense of right and wrong that excuses or accuses one...

"For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused." Romans 2:14,15

 

[OlNate]

Can you show we had ANY rights we were born with? The use of the rhetoric 'natural' seem to be quite a misnomer

Nope, not really. The concept of rights is one we (human beings) invented. I honestly don't care about the distinction all that much, I was just sharing what I found by doing a quick search since the question was asked. I've never once talked about my "god given rights"...it's just not language I use. Being Canadian, I probably think less about my rights than Americans do...could be a cultural difference, I don't know. :shrug:

 

[gboisjo]

The idea that human rights are some kind of preexisting condition, or a law of nature, is totally absurd.

The natural order of things is "might makes right" and for the vast majority of human history there were no widely recognized human rights other than what people had the power to take. We (Western civilization) obtained widespread human rights because we collectively decided that we wanted them for ourselves and everyone else, we took them for ourselves, and we established and maintained the power to protect them. It would be foolish to think that these rights will magically remain and no one will take them away from us if we let our guard down, when in reality there are still people out there who will do that the minute we give them the chance.

Yet we are organized by our nature of being human, not always a pretty picture. We're prone to vicious violence and selfishness thus the social rules. Our jails are full of the rule breakers, its where
they belong ..away from the collective. There's nothing complicated about the way we organize as a species.