God Exists [W:114]

[LesGovt]

If 50 million people say something foolish, it's still foolish. W Somerset Maugham

Well, there are far more than 50 million Christians who think Atheists are foolish. Thanks for confirming that they are right.

 

[HowardBThiname]

To have a member of the Atheist Cult tell me that the logic is horrible is proof that the argument is correct. Thanks for acknowledging that.

RAMOSS presented you with the standard and accepted fallacies in the study of logic that undermined the strength of your argument - but -- this post here is actually worse. Here you make the claim that just because someone who is an atheist recognized and pointed out the fallacies that his post was "proof" that you were correct.

That just makes no sense, dude.

It's cool if you want to believe in God -- but when you start putting forth arguments that convince only yourself, and you try to use them to convince others, you're setting yourself up for failure right off the bat.

Your belief is a matter of "faith" so you're not going to be able to prove it. Your OP post was nice but probably more suitable as a testimony in your church where others already believe. If it gives you comfort, by all means, believe it.

 

[LesGovt]

Your belief that God exists doesn't prove anything.

Your personal experiences are just that, and nothing more.

From the OP, I quote, " Maybe, just maybe, non-believers cannot hear from the Holy Spirit or understand how God has had an invisible hand over their lives simply because one has to believe in order to see."

 

[LesGovt]

RAMOSS presented you with the standard and accepted fallacies in the study of logic that undermined the strength of your argument - but -- this post here is actually worse. Here you make the claim that just because someone who is an atheist recognized and pointed out the fallacies that his post was "proof" that you were correct.

That just makes no sense, dude.

It's cool if you want to believe in God -- but when you start putting forth arguments that convince only yourself, and you try to use them to convince others, you're setting yourself up for failure right off the bat.

Your belief is a matter of "faith" so you're not going to be able to prove it. Your OP post was nice but probably more suitable as a testimony in your church where others already believe. If it gives you comfort, by all means, believe it.

When dealing with Atheist cultists, it makes perfect sense.

 

[LesGovt]

RAMOSS presented you with the standard and accepted fallacies in the study of logic that undermined the strength of your argument - but -- this post here is actually worse. Here you make the claim that just because someone who is an atheist recognized and pointed out the fallacies that his post was "proof" that you were correct.

That just makes no sense, dude.

It's cool if you want to believe in God -- but when you start putting forth arguments that convince only yourself, and you try to use them to convince others, you're setting yourself up for failure right off the bat.

Your belief is a matter of "faith" so you're not going to be able to prove it. Your OP post was nice but probably more suitable as a testimony in your church where others already believe. If it gives you comfort, by all means, believe it.

It might give me some comfort, but I know it is the truth. That is why I do not fear members of the Atheist Cult.

 

[HowardBThiname]

Howard, you and your fellow cult members need to learn how to read. Secondly, not only did I not say one religion, I further said this: "Certainly numbers do not guarantee correctness" The comment was about the Atheist Cult's insignificance in the world. Why don't you go back to your Atheist Cult Forum and play there. Why try to ruin all of DP?

Agreed, you did not mention "religion," rather, you were using the percentage who believed in God as somehow relevant. I'm just showing you how easy that belief is turned around to show that the majority do not believe in Christianity, so why does that not give Christians pause?

I'm certainly not trying to ruin anything, you put forth some iffy arguments and other posters called you on it. Not everyone just blindly laps up the preaching of others.

And what of those non-god religions? Where do they fit into your theory? Take Buddhists, for example, they are, by definition atheists, because they do not believe in a deity. When you say "atheist cultists" are you including the atheist religions as well?

Do you even have a clue as to what you're saying here?

 

[Angel]

If 50 million people say something foolish, it's still foolish. W Somerset Maugham

And if 6 billion people say something is true, it's still true? Pace Mr Maugham, a great writer.

Your belief that God exists doesn't prove anything.

Your personal experiences are just that, and nothing more.

Likewise your belief that God does not exist, no?

Likewise your personal experiences, yes?

 

[HowardBThiname]

It might give me some comfort, but I know it is the truth. That is why I do not fear members of the Atheist Cult.

Then all is well -- you don't fear them. They don't fear you.

We can all live happily ever after.

 

[LesGovt]

Agreed, you did not mention "religion," rather, you were using the percentage who believed in God as somehow relevant. I'm just showing you how easy that belief is turned around to show that the majority do not believe in Christianity, so why does that not give Christians pause?

I'm certainly not trying to ruin anything, you put forth some iffy arguments and other posters called you on it. Not everyone just blindly laps up the preaching of others.

And what of those non-god religions? Where do they fit into your theory? Take Buddhists, for example, they are, by definition atheists, because they do not believe in a deity. When you say "atheist cultists" are you including the atheist religions as well?

Do you even have a clue as to what you're saying here?

Yes, I do.

 

[LesGovt]

and if 6 billion people say something is true, it's still true? Pace mr maugham, a great writer.


Likewise your belief that god does not exist, no?

Likewise your personal experiences, yes?

rofl!

 

[Chagos]

That was one of the definitions. Here is another: "4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc."

You guys continue to prove that your boasting of being the brightest bulbs on the tree is a false claim. You continue to prove your bulbs have burned out.

By your own definition (presented) "a group or sect".

I've already pointed out that atheists show no organization (don't show as being organized) in any such type or manner.

I personally don't consider myself to be an above-average bulb BTW but have been told that I certainly meet "average".

I can see how that might irk the one or other who doesn't even reach that, but frankly don't know anybody here well enough to arrive at any such conclusive verdict.

Only thing I (or anyone else) can go by, being the intelligence displayed in posts but even that doesn't suffice for making a personality profile. Mainly because anyone posting intelligently here could be an utter fool in other fields in RL and anyone posting stupidities might hold a Ph.D in Astrophysics.

Experience does show however that the quality of postings in forums like these gives clues to the nature of the poster.

 

[LesGovt]

Then all is well -- you don't fear them. They don't fear you.

We can all live happily ever after.

Oh good, you're leaving.

 

[LesGovt]

By your own definition (presented) "a group or sect".

I've already pointed out that atheists show no organization (don't show as being organized) in any such type or manner.

I personally don't consider myself to be an above-average bulb BTW but have been told that I certainly meet "average".

I can see how that might irk the one or other who doesn't even reach that, but frankly don't know anybody here well enough to arrive at any such conclusive verdict.

Only thing I (or anyone else) can go by, being the intelligence displayed in posts but even that doesn't suffice for making a personality profile. Mainly because anyone posting intelligently here could be an utter fool in other fields in RL and anyone posting stupidities might hold a Ph.D in Astrophysics.

Experience does show however that the quality of postings in forums like these gives clues to the nature of the poster.

You have got to be kidding me. You talk lock-step with your Atheist Cult members. No, it's a cult. You are certainly bound by veneration of the same thing and idea, I would use the word from the definition but ideal doesn't seem to fit.

 

[Chagos]

And if 6 billion people say something is true, it's still true? Pace Mr Maugham, a great writer.


Likewise your belief that God does not exist, no?

Likewise your personal experiences, yes?

It would appear that you really need to brush up on comprehension.

If 50 million people say something foolish it's not the same as 50 million people saying something IS foolish. Likewise if 50 million people say something true it's not the same as 50 million people saying something IS true.

And even if you still don't get it on the gazillionth time, being devoid of any belief in god's (any god's) existence is not the same as believing there is no such thing.

 

[Chagos]

You have got to be kidding me. You talk lock-step with your Atheist Cult members. No, it's a cult. You are certainly bound by veneration of the same thing and idea, I would use the word from the definition but ideal doesn't seem to fit.

Actually, nothing of what you say fits but if you persist in not understanding that, there's little I can do about it.

 

[Chagos]

From the OP, I quote, " Maybe, just maybe, non-believers cannot hear from the Holy Spirit or understand how God has had an invisible hand over their lives simply because one has to believe in order to see."

That's fair enough.

As a "maybe".

Maybe the sun will rise in the West tomorrow, I can't prove otherwise until I see it then.

 

[Chagos]

Yes, I do.

Then you'll surely be able to answer at least one of the questions posed.

Try the one on Buddhists, that's an easy one.

 

[Chagos]

Well, there are far more than 50 million Christians who think Atheists are foolish. Thanks for confirming that they are right.

You appear to need to educate yourself towards proper comprehension as much as another poster does.

In the case cited 50 million people saying something foolish is not the same as 50 million people saying something (or someone) IS foolish.

 

[Manc Skipper]

And if 6 billion people say something is true, it's still true? Pace Mr Maugham, a great writer.


Likewise your belief that God does not exist, no?

Likewise your personal experiences, yes?

You don't have to believe god does not exist, only that the evidence for it's existence is insufficient to do so.

 

[Angel]

It would appear that you really need to brush up on comprehension.

If 50 million people say something foolish it's not the same as 50 million people saying something IS foolish. Likewise if 50 million people say something true it's not the same as 50 million people saying something IS true.

And even if you still don't get it on the gazillionth time, being devoid of any belief in god's (any god's) existence is not the same as believing there is no such thing.

And it would appear that you really need to brush up on logic.

Or perhaps you will kindly parse the distinction you wish to draw. I'll help you out here. What is the difference between saying "It is raining out" and "It is true that it is raining out"?

And for the gazillionth time, the distinction between not believing in God's existence and believing that God does not exist is a distinction without a difference.

 

[Chagos]

~.................... Why don't you go back to your Atheist Cult Forum and play there. Why try to ruin all of DP?

Four fallacies in two sentences.

1. There's no such thing as an atheist cult forum on this site.

2. This here forum does not represent all of DP, and

3. There is nothing governing this here forum that forbids logic being applied, and thus................

4. .....................logic ruins nothing, it improves any discussion. Anywhere.

 

[Angel]

You don't have to believe god does not exist, only that the evidence for it's existence is insufficient to do so.

Isn't that agnosticism, MS, rather than atheism?

 

[Chagos]

And it would appear that you really need to brush up on logic.

Or perhaps you will kindly parse the distinction you wish to draw. I'll help you out here. What is the difference between saying "It is raining out" and "It is true that it is raining out"?

Read the post again.

Here, I'll save you having to scroll

If 50 million people say something foolish it's not the same as 50 million people saying something IS foolish. Likewise if 50 million people say something true it's not the same as 50 million people saying something IS true.

The lame example you're now trying to shift to in no way equates to the above. Seeing that it is lame, no surprise there either.

 

[Manc Skipper]

And if 6 billion people say something is true, it's still true? Pace Mr Maugham, a great writer.

...

“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd; indeed in view of the silliness of the majority of mankind, a widely spread belief is more likely to be foolish than sensible.” Bertrand Russell.

 

[Chagos]

Isn't that agnosticism, MS, rather than atheism?

Both are not (mutually) exclusive. Certainly not of necessity.