• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

God did not create the universe, says Hawking

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
55,189
Reaction score
22,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
God did not create the universe, says Hawking - Yahoo! News

God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.

In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity.

Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles.

His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.

While I have no doubt that those who believe in God will try to paint atheism as a religion I can't help but hope they do so. Comparing atheism to a religion shows that all you need to 'validate' your religion is claiming a belief. Regardless of what that belief is. In other words, if I say the spider I am currently looking at on my window is God, then so it is. I don't need anything else. Proving that religion is nothing more than a man made fairy tale. Check, mate.
 

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,255
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
God did not create the universe, says Hawking - Yahoo! News



While I have no doubt that those who believe in God will try to paint atheism as a religion I can't help but hope they do so. Comparing atheism to a religion shows that all you need to 'validate' your religion is claiming a belief. Regardless of what that belief is. In other words, if I say the spider I am currently looking at on my window is God, then so it is. I don't need anything else. Proving that religion is nothing more than a man made fairy tale. Check, mate.

I strongly disagree. Hawking ignores a fundamental law of physics, known as cause and effect. I don't know if God created the Universe or not, but there is no such thing as spontaneous creation. There was an effect from some cause. Believing that it could have been a God would be more believable than it being spontaneous.

And don't forget that Hawking is not infallible, as demonstrated by his huge error on the black hole information paradox.
 

rivrrat

Goddess of Bacon
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
Messages
13,988
Reaction score
6,593
Location
Charlottesville, VA
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I strongly disagree. Hawking ignores a fundamental law of physics, known as cause and effect. I don't know if God created the Universe or not, but there is no such thing as spontaneous creation. There was an effect from some cause. Believing that it could have been a God would be more believable than it being spontaneous.

And don't forget that Hawking is not infallible, as demonstrated by his huge error on the black hole information paradox.

How do you know there's no such thing as spontaneous creation? And if you use this "argument" that since there can be no "spontaneous creation" then *something* must have created things, then what created that *something* that created everything else? Did "god" come from spontaneous creation? You're using the unlikelihood of spontaneous creation to justify a belief in a being that had to have come into existence via the very thing you say can't happen.
 

Coronado

Voluntary Resignation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
7,059
Reaction score
2,412
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well there you go. Might as well shut down all the churches around here, because Stephen Hawking said there is no god.

:roll:

This is why we don't mix science and religion.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
And don't forget that Hawking is not infallible, as demonstrated by his huge error on the black hole information paradox.

Theories created by physicists are meant to be dis proven and amended. They just set the basic framework for other physicists to challenge. I wouldn't criticize the man for being wrong. Einstein and Newton weren't right, but they never sought to be right.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
Well there you go. Might as well shut down all the churches around here, because Stephen Hawking said there is no god.

:roll:

This is why we don't mix science and religion.

The man can have his own opinion. Who doesn't want to hear the opinion of the greatest mind of today?
 

Coronado

Voluntary Resignation
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
7,059
Reaction score
2,412
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The man can have his own opinion. Who doesn't want to hear the opinion of the greatest mind of today?
I care about his opinion on religion about as much as I care about his opinion on NCAA basketball.

Just because you excel in one area doesn't mean you are omniscient.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Yeah, this won't change anyone's belief. Also this is just a theory, not absolute truth. I have a very hard time believing that something happened spontaneously. For every reaction there is an equal, and opposite reaction. For the big bang to happen, something had to cause it.

Also side note, I don't think most people have the intellectual capability to debate theoretical physics at a high level(including myself):lol: it's a quite difficult subject, even though it's extremely fascinating. It will be interesting to see how this thread turns out.
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
43,640
Reaction score
23,940
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Why is it news if an atheist claims there is no deity?

Would it be news of a religious person claimed that their deity created the universe?
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
The man can have his own opinion. Who doesn't want to hear the opinion of the greatest mind of today?
He's most certainly entitled to his opinion. The problem comes from certain atheists using it as a passive attack on those of faith. It's "nyah nyah" "I'm better than you" juvenile crap and does nothing to advance their cause.

I am a believer(Catholic), I don't go about my day trying to convert those who either believe differently or don't believe as I feel it's their right and expect the same courtesy. I will speak about my beliefs all day long to those who are curious and love to hear from open minded people who believe differently as I feel it's more conducive to understanding each other and maybe even uncovering a little more truth, but will not ever entertain attack based positions.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I care about his opinion on religion about as much as I care about his opinion on NCAA basketball.

Just because you excel in one area doesn't mean you are omniscient.

You don't have to like his opinion. But alot out there want to know what it is.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
When did he or atheists claim to know more then you or be better than you? The man expressed his opinion. I'm sure he would be first to admit that his opinion isn't more justifiable than yours.
 

The Giant Noodle

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
7,332
Reaction score
2,010
Location
Northern Illinois
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The GREAT Noodle made me and everything around me! From the dust of semolina and life giving liquid he has created the universe!
 

Taylor

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
15,915
Reaction score
6,213
Location
US
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.
That's certainly one way to sell books...

I'm not sure these are questions science can answer - and there's of course no guarantee that we're any more capable of understanding the creation of the universe than a mouse is. We can describe gravity, we sure as hell can't explain it.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't see why people get so offended when the man expresses his opinion. If a christian physicist comes out and expresses his idea of god, hes a good fellow. If an atheist physicist comes out and expresses his opinions concerning atheism, he's going to hell and he's a bad bad man.
 

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
That's certainly one way to sell books...

I'm not sure these are questions science can answer - and there's of course no guarantee that we're any more capable of understanding the creation of the universe than a mouse is. We can describe gravity, we sure as hell can't explain it.

To be honest, I don't think we'll ever truly know how the universe began. Atleast until we understand how to bring the two big theory's together. Einstein's General relativity, and sub-atomic theory.
I think people need to be more humble about their faith, instead of so arrogant. Because to be honest, what ever helps you sleep at night, is probably good enough.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
To be honest, I don't think we'll ever truly know how the universe began. Atleast until we understand how to bring the two big theory's together. Einstein's General relativity, and sub-atomic theory.
I think people need to be more humble about their faith, instead of so arrogant. Because to be honest, what ever helps you sleep at night, is probably good enough.

I agree with that completely. Steven has always been one to criticize human ignorance. He, like Einstein, has sought to understand the mind of god. He has swapped from Christianity to atheism and who knows what else multiple times throughout his life. He's heading towards the end of his life and atheism seems to be the best idea for him to sleep soundly. Maybe in a few months he'll convert back. Why does it matter what he believes in?
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
If he's so smart, how come he can't figure out how to walk?


BOO YA
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
If he's so smart, how come he can't figure out how to walk?


BOO YA

Who needs to walk when you got a wheelchair and bitches to push you around. Dudes a pimp.
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
55,189
Reaction score
22,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
It's odd to watch people debate all day that science can't disprove the existence of a god. Then when a scientist proposes a theory making the idea of gods irrelevant, their response is 'Well that's just his opinion'. More proof that at the end of the day the religious aren't really interested in debating anything. How else are you supposed to describe such openly dishonest tactics? I would be the first person to welcome any religious person willing to debate the ideas put forth by Hawkings'. Until then I guess I'll have to read the endless posts by people saying it's just an opinion by a guy who's entire career revolves around finding proof to back up his statements.
 
Last edited:

Your Star

Rage More!
DP Veteran
Joined
May 15, 2010
Messages
27,241
Reaction score
19,930
Location
Georgia
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
It's odd to watch people debate all day that science can't disprove the existence of a God. Then when a scientist proposes a theory making God irrelevant, their response is 'Well that's just his opinion'. More proof that at the end of the day the religious aren't really interested in debating anything.

Who said they were?
 

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
43,640
Reaction score
23,940
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
It's odd to watch people debate all day that science can't disprove the existence of a God. Then when a scientist proposes a theory making God irrelevant, their response is 'Well that's just his opinion'. More proof that at the end of the day the religious aren't really interested in debating anything.

Generally its been my experience that its the atheists who want to debate.
 

LimeLight

Active member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
76
Location
Ohio
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
It's odd to watch people debate all day that science can't disprove the existence of a God. Then when a scientist proposes a theory making God irrelevant, their response is 'Well that's just his opinion'. More proof that at the end of the day the religious aren't really interested in debating anything.

It is his opinion. I'm not religious, but at the end of the day it's all speculation.

Debating religion is stupid anyway. You can't win.
 

BCR

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
598
Reaction score
178
Location
Heart of Dixie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
I am fairly certain a "God" didn't create the universe, keep in my mind when we speak of God we are talking about an Omnipotent, supernatural being. I think this is extremely unlikely. Now maybe something beyond us created the universe, or at least started the initial spark to it but that doesn't mean it was a God who loves and cares about us. I think this universe being a scientific experiment in some lab in a different dimension is more likely then someone sitting above the universe watching everything that goes on.

Religion is just obviously a load bull **** and it really bothers me how so many people just fall for it, more than likely because it seems the the largest religions promise an eternity of pain in suffering if you don't "believe". I mean how laughable is that, you must believe in me in order to get to Heaven! Why would a God need belief??
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom