GM may go under looses 12 billion in DELFI (1 Viewer)

[Canuck]

Today General Motors announced ,that it's costs associated with Delfi,
would probably be a staggering 12 billion$.To pay for the 185,000 retirements and severance pay outs.Insiders say the giant is teetering on the Brink
of ,Filing chapt 11.it would leave gm with only 8 billion $ left for expenses
not much considering thats what toyota makes in a month

Staggering news GM the corner stone of America .Ford is also close to a chapt 11

ill keep a watch on this one

it staggers me to see not a single person protesting in the streets
except the 200,000 peace protesters of mrs sheehan
people are you all gone mad are you so entranced in front of your computers, tvs video games,that you dont see it coming
I do declare !

There is a cold clocking coming for america
and its not coming from outside your country



http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/delphi10e_20051010.htm

 

[teacher]

You're a friggin trip Canuck. You sit in front of your CPU and lecture us on how little we know and yet on another thread you ask us who the first Ceaser was when the tool for you to find out that very information is the tool you used to ask us that question. Or does your CPU only connect to this site? You repeatedly step on it. Your not very good at this are you eh? Look around you, the consensous is clear. Your a pretender. You will never be a player, let alone a big hitter. Your posts are easily shredded, your points proven wrong, or speculative opinion at best. If companies go bankrupt then someone else will pick up their share. I'm sure a Canadian company has never went belly up. I personally keep Molsens solvent. Keep it up Canuck. Your way fun to pick on. And how about you start more stupid threads eh?

 

[Canuck]

no not me you have the wrong guy
I didnt talk about him yet on the board ever
you guys are highly eduacated (school ed.)
life education low man on the totem most of you

you dont talk sense alot of the time

like saying america has control of US $

it doent its used around the world and if the world stopped using it whamo

euros bad news

 

[AK_Conservative]

no not me you have the wrong guy
I didnt talk about him yet on the board ever
you guys are highly eduacated (school ed.)
life education low man on the totem most of you

you dont talk sense alot of the time

like saying america has control of US $

it doent its used around the world and if the world stopped using it whamo

euros bad news

We dont talk sense most of the time? YOU TALK SENSE NONE OF THE TIME! :rofl You do not have an understanding of american economics becuase you are stuck in the socialist system!

 

[Australianlibertarian]

Let me just say that I would be worried about GM.

The problem is that GM produces a lot of crap American cars, that you can't realy sell in large quantities anywhere else in the world. No offence but the cars are just to big, and the build quality doesn't match the Japanese.

But I would be worried if I was BMW or Mercedes-Benz, because the interior build quality doesn't seem to be good as it used to be, or compared to the Japanese for that matter! :thumbdown

 

[imprtnrd]

GM should have never let DELFI go .

 

[Canuck]

GM should have never let DELFI go .

I think they will look to china for ther parts or mexico
its a big hit now for GM but
later on if still exists it may be alot cheaper

what worries me is companies like Nissan with their
1/2 ton pick ups
thats always been a big part of the bussiness for GM
and these gas prices must be hurting their sales

 

[Canuck]

I think they will look to china for ther parts or mexico
its a big hit now for GM but
later on if still exists it may be alot cheaper

what worries me is companies like Nissan with their
1/2 ton pick ups
thats always been a big part of the bussiness for GM
and these gas prices must be hurting their sales

http://www.washtimes.com/business/20051009-101033-5150r.htm
ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- Delphi Corp.'s bankruptcy filing will ratchet up the pressure to produce cheaper auto parts overseas and force unprecedented cuts in union wages and benefits, industry analysts and autoworkers said yesterday.
Delphi, the largest U.S. auto supplier, filed for bankruptcy protection Saturday and is expected to slash jobs and wages and close many of its 31 U.S. plants as part of its reorganization.
General Motors Corp., Delphi's largest customer and former parent, said it might have to assume up to $11 billion in retirement benefits for Delphi's union-represented employees.
But the ripple effects won't end there. Delphi has 500 suppliers of its own that are waiting to see what kind of labor agreement Delphi negotiates with the United Auto Workers. Once a leaner Delphi emerges from bankruptcy, expected in 2007, its suppliers face added pressure to lower their own costs through wage cuts or increased use of overseas labor.
"There's a great deal of concern among auto suppliers about whether they can remain profitable or survive with union contracts," said Jim Gillette, a supplier analyst with CSM Worldwide. "If Delphi's willing to force renegotiation through a bankruptcy filing, I suspect other suppliers would do the same."
Delphi's bankruptcy filing, which is expected to result in plant closures and layoffs, is one of the largest in U.S. history. The Troy, Mich., company has 50,000 U.S. employees.
Union members also are watching closely. Tonyia Young, a UAW member from Anderson, Ind., has worked for auto supplier Guide Corp. since 2002 and worries that Guide will match changes in Delphi's contracts because Delphi has a plant nearby. Guide, like Delphi, already has a two-tier wage agreement that allows it to pay newer hires such as Ms. Young about $15 per hour, $8 less than its older hires.
In a letter sent to UAW members last week, local union leaders in Indiana said Delphi wants to cut hourly wages from $27 to $10 to $12, slash vacation time and make workers contribute more for their own health care. The letter warned that cuts under a bankruptcy judge could be even worse.
Ms. Young said concessions at supplier plants are part of a growing pattern that UAW members need to confront during Delphi's restructuring.
"I think Delphi workers probably have no choice but to strike," she said. "The corporation has filed bankruptcy and they've kind of drawn the line in the sand about what they're willing to do. It seems to me that any negotiation between our leadership and Delphi will not be very productive."
James McTevia, a restructuring specialist who is representing Delphi suppliers in the bankruptcy proceedings, said Delphi could set a new model for the entire industry by scaling back its hourly work force and its U.S. manufacturing capacity and giving lower wages and benefits to the workers who remain.
Such a change is sorely needed, Mr. McTevia said. Autos and auto parts always will be made in the United States for U.S. customers, he said, but the country needs less capacity than it has, and companies need to increase their presence in emerging markets such as Asia.

 

[Canuck]

Let me just say that I would be worried about GM.

The problem is that GM produces a lot of crap American cars, that you can't realy sell in large quantities anywhere else in the world. No offence but the cars are just to big, and the build quality doesn't match the Japanese.

But I would be worried if I was BMW or Mercedes-Benz, because the interior build quality doesn't seem to be good as it used to be, or compared to the Japanese for that matter! :thumbdown

With GM being a cornerstone company in North America,I see many ripple effects occuring , if they do go under.And I am afraid that it probably is the case, that they are declining ,and will go under .Along with Ford also,Both can not compete with asian and european vehicles.

 

[oldreliable67]

Canuck,

Ohmigod, I actually semi- almost, maybe agree with you on something! Can it be? Lets see...

With GM being a cornerstone company in North America,I see many ripple effects occuring , if they do go under.And I am afraid that it probably is the case, that they are declining ,and will go under .Along with Ford also,Both can not compete with asian and european vehicles.

> Yep, GM is a cornerstone in North America.
> Are they likely to go under? Yes.
> What about Ford? Yep, likewise.
> Both cannot compete with asian and european vehicles? Yes, cannot compete with asian. No, can compete with European (if they survive, that is).

Problems at GM and Ford both well documented, so no need to go into detail here (will provide links if desired). But a couple of brief observations:

The question was, "are they likely to go under"? The short answer is 'yes' but it really should be qualified with some estimate of the relative likelihood of same. Just my opinion, but I'm guessing the odds are abut 60/40 in favor of GM filing for Chapter 11 within the next 12 months. Reasons: 1) increase in price of gasoline is killing sales of highest profit margin vehicles: trucks, pickups, SUVs; 2) UAW so far seems unwilling to make the kind of wage concessions that will push wolf further away from the door -- sounds very much like the same brinkmanship that was played out prior to the airline bankruptcies; 3) while US quality has improved, it is still not perceived by consumers as being up to that of Asian or European marques; and last but probably most important, 4) Ford and GM can reorganize under bankruptcy laws and unload much of their extremely onerous pension fund liabilities onto the PBGC (a topic suitable for a thread of its own), then come out of Chapter 11 a much smaller, leaner company with a much better chance of success.

Agree? Disagree? Definite maybe?

[PS: Omigod! Can't get over it! Agreed with Canuck on something! Will wonders never cease! I'm going out right now and buy a lottery ticket!]

 

[Canuck]

LOL

she's going down all hands tied

 

[oldreliable67]

LOL

Actually, as a Canadian, you should be very concerned about the repercussions in Canada of a GM, Ford and/or Delhi bankruptcy. Lots and lots of Canadians employed by these companies. They are a significant part of the Canadian economy too.

 

[Canuck]

Actually, as a Canadian, you should be very concerned about the repercussions in Canada of a GM, Ford and/or Delhi bankruptcy. Lots and lots of Canadians employed by these companies. They are a significant part of the Canadian economy too.

im retired and have better things to do
I drive nissan vehicles
I gave up on detroit in 1979
PETRO EURO makes this seem like a tea party friend

 

[oldreliable67]

CanDuck,

im retired and have better things to do

Sounds very much like you don't care one bit for your country or your countrymen. Quite a change from your typical rah-rah Canada rhetoric.

 

[Canuck]

QUOTE=oldreliable67]CanDuck,



Sounds very much like you don't care one bit for your country or your countrymen. Quite a change from your typical rah-rah Canada rhetoric.[/QUOTE]

what do you mean
I said I dont buy gm or ford junk thats all
I dont care if theres a job for me I dont have to work no food no problem I have 188 acres of prime land
What is coming can not be stopped,What ever that may be

October US Auto
Sales Plummet
By David Runk
Associated Press Writer
10-14-5

DETROIT (AP) -- U.S. auto sales fell precipitously in the first part of October, as employee-discount incentives ended and gas prices made consumers jittery, the results of a survey released Friday suggested.

The numbers also showed a possible fallout from strong summer sales, according to Power Information Network, a division of J.D. Power and Associates.

New-vehicle sales were down 33 percent in the first nine days compared with the same period a year ago, and down 44 percent compared with the first nine days of September, the survey found.

Sales at No. 1 automaker General Motors Corp. were down 57 percent compared with early October 2004, while Ford Motor Co.'s sales were down 45 percent. The other seven major automakers also showed declines.

"The aftermath of the employee pricing programs is having a dramatic impact," said Jeff Schuster, executive director of global forecasting at J.D. Power. "A lot could happen between now and the end of the month, but at this point, we're on track for an October like we haven't seen since the early 1990s."

Last month, lower sales of sport utility vehicles -- coming amid higher gas prices seen in the wake of Hurricane Katrina -- dragged down U.S. automakers who were already expecting a dropoff in sales after offering employee prices on many models to all consumers during the summer months. Asian brands, which didn't offer employee discounts, fell less sharply.

GM introduced the incentive in June and originally planned to end it in July, but it proved so popular that the company extended it several times until the end of September. Ford and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group matched the program in July, but both ended theirs in early October.

GM spokeswoman Susan Garontakos said the company wasn't planning any immediate changes to its incentives, but saw the October decline as attributable mostly to 2005 model year vehicles being cleared out earlier in the year.

George Pipas, Ford's U.S. sales analysis manager, declined to comment on the report, but noted that the automaker had said when reporting September sales that it expected October to be a weak sales month.

According to the PIN survey, DaimlerChrysler AG's sales were off 32 percent in early October, while Nissan North America recorded a 21 percent decline. American Honda Motor Co. showed the smallest decline of 8 percent, followed by Toyota Motor Sales USA, which had a 14 percent drop.

"It will be interesting to see if the automakers, particularly GM and Ford, can hold back on incentives if their sales and share continue to slip," said Tom Libby, senior director of industry analysis at PIN. "I expect they will find a way to boost sales. I doubt that they will just sit back and let this trend continue."

In early afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange, GM's shares rose 16 cents to $27.31, while shares of Ford dropped 32 cents to $8.67. DaimlerChrysler's shares rose 4 cents to $50.73.

Don't get me wrong though I am neither happy about this, or am I happy with what I see coming.

Filings have skyrocketed at stunning rates, topping more than 3,000 percent in many big cities and even more for smaller ones, according to data from U.S. bankruptcy courts

with these signs it is obvious we will have many more poor people
which stands at 1/3 but I can easily see it going to 50%

 

[Canuck]

Job losses from hurricanes hit 438,000

you can see the trending down of jobs and this is in Canda as well
though not as bad it still isnt a nice picture that is forming

coupled to inflation+
33%-90% rise in price for heating oil in some places
there is some bad times up ahead for us all

There can now be no argument on the subject. Anyone attempting to claim that G.W. Bush and the Republicans in Congress believe in limiting government spending is pixilated! George Bush consumes tax dollars the way he once consumed booze! And, on the whole, his Republican buddies in Congress are perhaps even bigger spending sops than he is! They don't belong in Washington; they belong in SA (Spenders Anonymous).