• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Glock Awarded FBI Contract

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
6,914
Reaction score
3,672
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
I know there has been several threads in another forum about which caliber people prefer in a hand gun used for self-protection whether it is at home or carried. This is whet the FBI decided for their agents to use. Other federal agencies will also use Glock pistols as well it seems.

Oh and, the pistol contract is for $85 million.

Earlier today FedBizOpps.gov announced a contract award for the FBI solicitation for new 9mm service and training weapons. In the solicitation the FBI required (1) compact framed pistol, (1) full size pistol, (1) Man-Marker (Simunition) pistol, and (1) Inert training pistol. Many thought Sig Sauer would be awarded this with the highly modular P320, the award went to Glock.

There are four major factors contributing to the rise of 9mm over .40 S&W for law enforcement use. Increased magazine capacity is one of the main reasons.

The FBI determined that one of the most important elements of winning a gunfight is getting multiple rounds on target after studying shootings across the country. Because 9mm pistols hold more ammunition than .40-caliber handguns, agents stand a better chance of landing a stopping shot before needing to stop and reload. In the FBI’s investigation, they found that shooters miss between 70 and 80 percent of shots taken in self-defense. That alone makes a compelling argument to switch to 9mm, since most 9mm pistols hold between 2 to 4 more rounds of ammunition per magazine.

That's a lot of missed shots, especially for trained agents. I'll bet police are even worse. One proviso was that the pistol selected by the FBI could have no finger grooves on the grip. I guess this new series of Glocks will probably be Gen 5?

I could have told the FBI that Glock and the 9mm round is GTG. :thumbs: Thoughts?

Glock Awarded FBI Contract – Law Officer

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/fbi-awards-glock-with-85-million-contract-for-9mm-pistols/
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
60,135
Reaction score
46,952
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Μολὼν λαβέ;1066056812 said:
I know there has been several threads in another forum about which caliber people prefer in a hand gun used for self-protection whether it is at home or carried. This is whet the FBI decided for their agents to use. Other federal agencies will also use Glock pistols as well it seems.

Oh and, the pistol contract is for $85 million.





That's a lot of missed shots, especially for trained agents. I'll bet police are even worse. One proviso was that the pistol selected by the FBI could have no finger grooves on the grip. I guess this new series of Glocks will probably be Gen 5?

I could have told the FBI that Glock and the 9mm round is GTG. :thumbs: Thoughts?

Glock Awarded FBI Contract – Law Officer
https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/fbi-awards-glock-with-85-million-contract-for-9mm-pistols/
As someone who believes the sun never sets on the .45 ACP, 9mm strikes me as "meh".

But I've been out of this stuff for a long time, and still believe nothing beats a 12ga around the house ...
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
6,914
Reaction score
3,672
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
As someone who believes the sun never sets on the .45 ACP, 9mm strikes me as "meh".

But I've been out of this stuff for a long time, and still believe nothing beats a 12ga around the house ...

More hits on target and the effectiveness of the 9mm round is why the FBI chose it.

You know that no agency will require their agents/officers to carry a .45 ACP round, even though some permit it, including the FBI.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
60,135
Reaction score
46,952
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Μολὼν λαβέ;1066056985 said:
More hits on target and the effectiveness of the 9mm round is why the FBI chose it.

You know that no agency will require their agents/officers to carry a .45 ACP round, even though some permit it, including the FBI.
No, I know nothing of what agencies require - I'm not LEO.

But I do know a hit with a .45 ACP isn't exactly a fleabite.

It's not too fast, but it hurts when it gets there! ;)
 

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,585
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No, I know nothing of what agencies require - I'm not LEO.

But I do know a hit with a .45 ACP isn't exactly a fleabite.

It's not too fast, but it hurts when it gets there! ;)

I agree with everyone in these days wearing body armor an armor piercing round or at least a couple of
Clips is needed.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
60,135
Reaction score
46,952
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I agree with everyone in these days wearing body armor an armor piercing round or at least a couple of
Clips is needed.
You're referring to LEO, or civilians?
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
60,135
Reaction score
46,952
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
LEO's.

Although I know a few civilians that have them.
Agreed.

I can't imagine any cop today not wearing a vest.

Gotta' be miserable on hot summer days though ...
 

ludin

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
57,470
Reaction score
14,585
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Agreed.

I can't imagine any cop today not wearing a vest.

Gotta' be miserable on hot summer days though ...

That is why most of them don't wear them plus they are not to comfortable,
But it beats getting shot.
 

braindrain

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 1, 2009
Messages
11,180
Reaction score
3,424
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
In my opinion Glocks in 9mm is pretty much the best handgun in existence so good move by the FBI.
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Μολὼν λαβέ;1066056812 said:
I know there has been several threads in another forum about which caliber people prefer in a hand gun used for self-protection whether it is at home or carried. This is whet the FBI decided for their agents to use. Other federal agencies will also use Glock pistols as well it seems.

Oh and, the pistol contract is for $85 million.





That's a lot of missed shots, especially for trained agents. I'll bet police are even worse. One proviso was that the pistol selected by the FBI could have no finger grooves on the grip. I guess this new series of Glocks will probably be Gen 5?

I could have told the FBI that Glock and the 9mm round is GTG. :thumbs: Thoughts?

Glock Awarded FBI Contract – Law Officer

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/fbi-awards-glock-with-85-million-contract-for-9mm-pistols/

Wowsa...big money for Gaston Glock.

Glock has been may favorite since I bought my first one in 1986. It has over 7,000 rounds of trouble free shooting through it.
When I talked my sheriff into adopting them for the Dept. in 1990, we got a great deal from Glock, $330 with 3 magazines.
Everyone's qualification scores went up, some way up. Mine was a Gen. One and smooth grip. I prefer that. Maybe these new ones will look more like mine.
I can't say enough good things about them.
Good choice for the FBI.

LEO's.

Although I know a few civilians that have them.

I know many civilians who have them. Good to have as much gear as you can afford....and prepare for anything.

Agreed.

I can't imagine any cop today not wearing a vest.

Gotta' be miserable on hot summer days though ...

They really are.

That is why most of them don't wear them plus they are not to comfortable,
But it beats getting shot.

Many departments make them mandatory for duty.

In my opinion Glocks in 9mm is pretty much the best handgun in existence so good move by the FBI.

Ditto!
 
Last edited:

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Μολὼν λαβέ;1066056985 said:
More hits on target and the effectiveness of the 9mm round is why the FBI chose it.

You know that no agency will require their agents/officers to carry a .45 ACP round, even though some permit it, including the FBI.


The .45 is a great round, but too big a handful for some, plus the additional weight of gun and ammo.

I shot the 1911 in competition for 20 years.
 

RetiredUSN

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
29,565
Reaction score
15,643
Location
Norfolk Virginia area.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The .45 is a great round, but too big a handful for some, plus the additional weight of gun and ammo.

I shot the 1911 in competition for 20 years.

I loved the Navy issued .45 and obtained my pistol marksmanship ribbon with it. It was the perfect stock pistol for my XX large hands, and I liked the heft.

I struggled for a bit with the 9 MM when we got our first allotment of them.
 

PoS

Minister of Love
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
24,888
Reaction score
18,517
Location
Oceania
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
No, I know nothing of what agencies require - I'm not LEO.

But I do know a hit with a .45 ACP isn't exactly a fleabite.

It's not too fast, but it hurts when it gets there! ;)

Hell yeah! I'm a .45 ACP fan too. My gramps used it in WW2- its been a damn fine man-stopping caliber. If it ain't broke, why fix it? :mrgreen:
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
In the past few years, the technology for 9mm bullets has advanced a lot and what I'm reading now is that they are as good a stopper as .45s.

But, from my experience as a firearms instructor and head of the police shooting review board and all my research on many shootings, I find that nothing is written in stone.

I've seen guys go into shock from a flesh wound and one guy struck 5 times with .45 HP(4 in the torso)....and run off, only to bleed out and die over 2 minutes later.

It's much to do about physical makeup, bullet placement and an individuals will to survive.
 

Chomsky

Social Democrat
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2015
Messages
60,135
Reaction score
46,952
Location
Third Coast
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
In the past few years, the technology for 9mm bullets has advanced a lot and what I'm reading now is that they are as good a stopper as .45s.

But, from my experience as a firearms instructor and head of the police shooting review board and all my research on many shootings, I find that nothing is written in stone.

I've seen guys go into shock from a flesh wound and one guy struck 5 times with .45 HP(4 in the torso)....and run off, only to bleed out and die over 2 minutes later.

It's much to do about physical makeup, bullet placement and an individuals will to survive.
I think that's why the long standing first suggestion for home defense has traditionally been a 12ga. I suppose maybe that's changed with the times, but it still seems like one wouldn't go wrong there if loaded properly for the expected encounter.
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
6,914
Reaction score
3,672
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
In the past few years, the technology for 9mm bullets has advanced a lot and what I'm reading now is that they are as good a stopper as .45s.

That's what I've read as well, and one reason I went exclusively to 9mm for all my handguns for personal protection. The other reason is the cost of .45 acp ammo. Ouch!

But, from my experience as a firearms instructor and head of the police shooting review board and all my research on many shootings, I find that nothing is written in stone.

I've seen guys go into shock from a flesh wound and one guy struck 5 times with .45 HP(4 in the torso)....and run off, only to bleed out and die over 2 minutes later.

It's much to do about physical makeup, bullet placement and an individuals will to survive.

Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge about this subject!
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

Si vis pacem, para bellum
DP Veteran
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
6,914
Reaction score
3,672
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think that's why the long standing first suggestion for home defense has traditionally been a 12ga. I suppose maybe that's changed with the times, but it still seems like one wouldn't go wrong there if loaded properly for the expected encounter.

To avoid the large blast that comes with a 12 gauge and you don't want to go the AR route, several manufacturers have begun production of 9mm carbines. Below is my favorite. I would love to SBR one of these.

Scorp_blurb.jpg

CZ-USA CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Carbine - CZ-USA
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think that's why the long standing first suggestion for home defense has traditionally been a 12ga. I suppose maybe that's changed with the times, but it still seems like one wouldn't go wrong there if loaded properly for the expected encounter.

The 12 ga. is a great home defense weapon, but like most guns, can over penetrate, and the spread(depending on proximity to the target), can harm others close by.

Plus, unless they are a combat style shotgun, they are cumbersome to maneuver in tight quarters. All have their limitations and dedication to practice and tactics is a must.

Μολὼν λαβέ;1066059408 said:
That's what I've read as well, and one reason I went exclusively to 9mm for all my handguns for personal protection. The other reason is the cost of .45 acp ammo. Ouch!

Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge about this subject!

You are very welcome. See more below.

Since I cast my own bullets, I can load .45 for under $2 a box of 50, for lead rounds ...and about $5 for jacketed rounds. I can load most calibers, as I have molds for them and lots of free lead.....but have gotten rather lazy the last couple years.

I am buying up 9mm, because it's the most available and cheapest out their, except for .22s which are hard to find at a decent price. Walmart has FMJ Perfecta Ammo by Fiocchhi out of Italy. Brass cases and a brass looking bullet for $9.78 a box of 50. They don't have them all the time, but when they do, I grab 4-8 boxes and continue to stockpile. No sales tax in Oregon, so that's a plus as well.
Why do I stockpile(some call it hoarding)? Because I'm predicting that the liberal Democrap douchebags in the Oregon legislature, will follow California's lead and pass a law requiring ID and background checks with every box purchased ......and the resulting "tracking" that goes with it. Tracking is no different than registration and that can lead to confiscation.

Μολὼν λαβέ;1066059426 said:
To avoid the large blast that comes with a 12 gauge and you don't want to go the AR route, several manufacturers have begun production of 9mm carbines. Below is my favorite. I would love to SBR one of these.

View attachment 67203950

CZ-USA CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Carbine - CZ-USA

Excellent idea....
 

MickeyW

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 10, 2015
Messages
14,012
Reaction score
3,439
Location
Southern Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
A couple other things I found out from talking with E Room Docs and MEs, over many years, is that if a person's heart is pulverized by a bullet or knife blade, and the brain has already sent the message to the hand or trigger finger, to stab or shoot you....they still can.

The duration for harm to you, may be as much as 10-12 seconds, maybe longer. So, shoot and scoot, left or right, and shoot again if needed. And if at all possible, depending on distance, put something solid(bullet stopping item)between the bad guy and you.

Over the years, I utilized telephone poles, medium to large trees, commercial mail boxes bolted to the sidewalk, fire hydrants, the wheels of a vehicle or behind the engine block. Most handgun bullets and almost all rifle bullets, will penetrate both vehicle doors, in and out. Trunk lids too.

Shoot to kill and keep shooting, until the threat has ceased his/her assault.
 
Top Bottom