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GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed*

Mell

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''The UN Secretariat has repeatedly emphasized the proven benefits of having more female peacekeepers, especially in regions where sexual violence has been or still is a serious problem, but there are hiccups.
: :
A lot of member states are beginning to understand that when it comes to peacekeeping missions, you really do need to have both women and men in the military and police equally represented ''
Quote from IRIN Global | GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed* | Asia East Africa Global Great Lakes Horn of Africa Latin America and Caribbean Middle East Southern Africa West Africa | Afghanistan Angola Bangladesh Burkina Faso Burundi Benin Botswana DR

Is it pure sexism, which is creating the shortage of female peace keepers, despite the advantages to having more female peace keepers? Or is being a peace keeper not an attractive option to women?
 
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jamesrage

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''The UN Secretariat has repeatedly emphasized the proven benefits of having more female peacekeepers, especially in regions where sexual violence has been or still is a serious problem, but there are hiccups.
: :
A lot of member states are beginning to understand that when it comes to peacekeeping missions, you really do need to have both women and men in the military and police equally represented ''
Quote from IRIN Global | GLOBAL: Women UN peacekeepers - more needed* | Asia East Africa Global Great Lakes Horn of Africa Latin America and Caribbean Middle East Southern Africa West Africa | Afghanistan Angola Bangladesh Burkina Faso Burundi Benin Botswana DR

Is it pure sexism, which is creating the shortage of female peace keepers, despite the advantages to having more female peace keepers? Or is being a peace keeper not an attractive option to women?

Perhaps the reason there are more male peace keepers is because males are physically stronger than females. And since males are generally physically stronger than females they are most likely to be able to pass all the physical requirements their nations military may have. Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
 
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Gibberish

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Perhaps the reason there are more male peace keepers is because males are physically stronger than females. And since males are generally physically stronger than females they are most likely to be able to pass all the physical requirements their nations military may have. Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
Men have the capacity for a higher maximum muscle mass (total strength) then women.

Women tend to have stronger heart muscles and have higher maximum endurance levels.

If you have a man and woman at the same physical level for their bodies lift the same max weight then the man will likely win. If you have the same individuals run long distance or an agility course then the woman will most likely win.

In terms of combat training and carrying gear, women could most likely carry the same gear as a man for a longer period of time without fatiguing but are limited on how much they can carry.
 
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Goshin

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Men have the capacity for a higher maximum muscle mass (total strength) then women.

Women tend to have stronger heart muscles and have higher maximum endurance levels.

If you have a man and woman at the same physical level for their bodies lift the same max weight then the man will likely win. If you have the same individuals run long distance or an agility course then the woman will most likely win.

In terms of combat training and carrying gear, women could most likely carry the same gear as a man for a longer period of time without fatiguing but are limited on how much they can carry.

Sorry, that last bit is horse****. It's also contradictory in that you're saying they could carry the same gear, then you say their limited in how much they can carry. The loadouts for combat infantry these days can get incredibly heavy.

If you're comparing Joe Average and Helga the Olympian, yes. Not men and women at the same level of conditioning.
 

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If you have the same individuals run long distance or an agility course then the woman will most likely win.
10k mens WR -27:01
half marathon WR Mens-58:23
full marathon WR Mens -2:03:59
Men's 3000M steeple chase WR- 7:53:63

10K womens WR -30:21
half marathon WR women- 1:06:25
full marathon womens WR- 2:15:25
3000m womens steeplechase WR- 8:58:81

This is just a few.....

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics]List of world records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Sure Paula Radcliffe would kick my ass at a marathon, 10K whatever. But in a side by side comparison of people in a similar physical condition that train for the same events, it is clear that males hold an edge in endurance as well.

The only area where I would agree that women enjoy a physical advantage-generally sex wide- over their male counter parts is flexibility.
 

Tashah

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Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
Quite right. Muscles and endurance are peacekeeping necessities...



:2razz:
 

Goshin

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10k mens WR -27:01
half marathon WR Mens-58:23
full marathon WR Mens -2:03:59
Men's 3000M steeple chase WR- 7:53:63

10K womens WR -30:21
half marathon WR women- 1:06:25
full marathon womens WR- 2:15:25
3000m womens steeplechase WR- 8:58:81

This is just a few.....

List of world records in athletics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sure Paula Radcliffe would kick my ass at a marathon, 10K whatever. But in a side by side comparison of people in a similar physical condition that train for the same events, it is clear that males hold an edge in endurance as well.

The only area where I would agree that women enjoy a physical advantage-generally sex wide- over their male counter parts is flexibility.

Good post, and thanks for the stats.

I wanted to note that I'm not saying there isn't a place for women in the military, or even in combat roles. The differences in the stats WI posted were modest differences; women at the highest peak of physical conditioning can get very close to performance levels of men at the highest peak of physical conditioning, in almost everything except upper body strength.

Upper body strength probably isn't crucial in flying a military aircraft, operating a military vehicle, or any number of other roles.

There are certain roles where it is rather crucial though. Infantry, especially units like Recon and Ranger on certain types of missions, hump some incredibly heavy loads these days: core torso strength, and shoulder strength, would be crucial in those specialties. While there are probably some small number of truly exceptional women who could handle that, it seems inevitable that the % would be much smaller than the percent of men who could be trained to cope with it.

Similar issues would exist where rapidly lifting and moving heavy weights by hand are required. Loading heavy ordnance for an artillery piece would be one example.

I have no objection to women in the military, and no objection to women serving in whatever specialty they are capable of qualifying for. I just want us to be objective and pragmatic about it: fixed standards that everyone has to meet for a given MOS regardless of gender.
 
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Goshin

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Quite right. Muscles and endurance are peacekeeping necessities...



:2razz:
I don't have a very high opinion of UN "peacekeepers" in general, either. :doh

In fact you'd be hard pressed to have a lower opinion of the UN as a whole than I do. :cool:
 

Mell

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Perhaps the reason there are more male peace keepers is because males are physically stronger than females. And since males are generally physically stronger than females they are most likely to be able to pass all the physical requirements their nations military may have. Being a soldier or marine requires more than someone just giving you a weapon and pointing you at a target.
Obviously there are other requirements besides physical strength. Otherwise,the UN would not be asking for more female peace keepers.

I can see what the UN mean by the presence of female soldiers being comforting to women who have been victims of sexual violence. More male only soldiers appearing on the scene likely make them nervous, because they would be unsure if these are good or bad. They likely have problems with trusting any male strangers, after the experiences some of them went through.
 

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Obviously there are other requirements besides physical strength. Otherwise,the UN would not be asking for more female peace keepers.

I can see what the UN mean by the presence of female soldiers being comforting to women who have been victims of sexual violence. More male only soldiers appearing on the scene likely make them nervous, because they would be unsure if these are good or bad. They likely have problems with trusting any male strangers, after the experiences some of them went through.
I have to wonder what military experience those who are asking for more females have.
 

Goshin

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Obviously there are other requirements besides physical strength. Otherwise,the UN would not be asking for more female peace keepers.

I can see what the UN mean by the presence of female soldiers being comforting to women who have been victims of sexual violence. More male only soldiers appearing on the scene likely make them nervous, because they would be unsure if these are good or bad. They likely have problems with trusting any male strangers, after the experiences some of them went through.

Considering all the accusations of rape and torture that have been levied against UN "peacekeepers", you might have a point there... in a left-handed and bass-ackward sort of way. :mrgreen:
 

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I think the UN needs plain more peacekeepers, last time I checked. Hardly fitting that they're getting all gender specific.
 

Mell

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I have to wonder what military experience those who are asking for more females have.
I dont know what experience they are asking for, but the UN state some important reasons in my opinion for the presence of female peacekeepers in certain troubled countries.

As for peace keeping roles women already fulfill, they seem to be doing most of the work where clearing old landmines in certain countries is involved. Apparently, they are more careful, reliable and thorough than men are with it.

But, I think before all this starts, it is very important that the UN recognise whatever role women take on as peacekeepers, as important as what men do, and it be reflected in their wages Otherwise, we are back at the same old gender bullsh*t again, which is far from peaceful, and far from supportive of women doing what women do best, rather than being pressured to do what men do better.
 

Mell

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Hardly fitting that they're getting all gender specific.
This demonstrates one of the main problems with not having enough female peace keepers. Men tend to be insensitive or even blind to the needs and problems of women. Apparently, the female peace keepers tend to notice a lot about local women, that male peace keepers dont notice. Also, women peace keepers have an easier time with gaining trust and access to the female sections of certain conservative and isolated communities.
 

Mell

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Good post, and thanks for the stats.

I wanted to note that I'm not saying there isn't a place for women in the military, or even in combat roles. The differences in the stats WI posted were modest differences; women at the highest peak of physical conditioning can get very close to performance levels of men at the highest peak of physical conditioning, in almost everything except upper body strength.


I have no objection to women in the military, ....
I think you are getting too caught up on what the armies traditionally do, without paying any attention to the reasons the UN is asking for female peace keepers.

And, it isnt about your personal objections.... Look beyond this boring battle of the sexes thing... All this, women cant do things as well as we can is getting stale. The real issue is that what women do well needs to be identified, recognised and given value in its own right.
 

Mell

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In fact you'd be hard pressed to have a lower opinion of the UN as a whole than I do. :cool:
I think, it is ridiculous to judge the UN as a whole, based on what the worst members(who are in the vast minority) do . As well as that, I think the UN investigates all reports of crimes done by its members.
 

Goshin

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I think, it is ridiculous to judge the UN as a whole, based on what the worst members(who are in the vast minority) do . As well as that, I think the UN investigates all reports of crimes done by its members.
I base my inexpressable loathing for the UN on nearly four decades of observing their corruption, incompetence, and inability to cope with the fact that a third of their membership come from nations whose governments are scum.
 

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I base my inexpressable loathing for the UN on nearly four decades of observing their corruption, incompetence, and inability to cope with the fact that a third of their membership come from nations whose governments are scum.
As Obama puts it, they are not perfect, but they are absolutely necessary...

But the quote above, does not address the reasons stated in the news blog for having more female peacekeepers... Or is your point, that the whole UN is a heap of rubbish, so it does not matter who they hire for peacekeeping?
 

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I dont know what experience they are asking for, but the UN state some important reasons in my opinion for the presence of female peacekeepers in certain troubled countries.

As for peace keeping roles women already fulfill, they seem to be doing most of the work where clearing old landmines in certain countries is involved. Apparently, they are more careful, reliable and thorough than men are with it.

But, I think before all this starts, it is very important that the UN recognise whatever role women take on as peacekeepers, as important as what men do, and it be reflected in their wages Otherwise, we are back at the same old gender bullsh*t again, which is far from peaceful, and far from supportive of women doing what women do best, rather than being pressured to do what men do better.
Actually I was wondering if the people who are asking for more female UN peace keepers have any actual military experience themselves. Who are these people making these requests? Are they Generals, senior enlisted or are they some suits with little or no military experience trying to push some pc gender equality agenda nonsense?
 

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Actually I was wondering if the people who are asking for more female UN peace keepers have any actual military experience themselves. Who are these people making these requests? Are they Generals, senior enlisted or are they some suits with little or no military experience trying to push some pc gender equality agenda nonsense?
Read the news blog in the opening post. It explains it. Then maybe it can be discussed properly, rather than just a thread full of the barage by the usual hoard who reply on threads concerning womens issues, to push some pc gender inequality agenda nonsense.

It is very discouraging, if all threads on womens issues are going to be at this level. Surely, decades of this type of discussion between the genders would be enough to show what a stalemate it is.
 

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Read the news blog in the opening post. It explains it. Then maybe it can be discussed properly, rather than just a thread full of the barage by the usual hoard who reply on threads concerning womens issues, to push some pc gender inequality agenda nonsense.

It is very discouraging, if all threads on womens issues are going to be at this level. Surely, decades of this type of discussion between the genders would be enough to show what a stalemate it is.
I have no problem with women in the military as long as they have to pass the same exact physical standards as their male counterparts and get treated the same as their male counterparts. So it is BS to talk about equality when the standards are not the same. I could be wrong but it is possible the UN does the same thing, instead of actually carrying about the quality of troops they have they lower the standards to satisfy some BS pc gender equality nonsense.
 

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I have no problem with women in the military ...
You are still missing the point again, like all the other posters in this thread are. And, this is exactly the reason the UN are calling for more female peace keepers. It is not what is a problem for you that is important here. What is important is what is good for women in troubled countries. What will provide them with what they need. Who will notice what they need? The point the UN is making is that it will take women to be able to see what women need. And, this is important, as women are half the worlds population, and their needs and rights are being overlooked, and worse still they are being heavily abused on a large scale, and this is being sidelined or even going unnoticed by male soldiers. Maybe, they like you are focussing way too much on who is bigger than who, and who can carry the biggest bag, who can run fastest...
 

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Now that I give it even more thought, this thread is liklely and good sampling of the types of attitudes which are causing a shortage of female candidates to become peace keepers from the armies of the various countries.
 

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Now that I give it even more thought, this thread is liklely and good sampling of the types of attitudes which are causing a shortage of female candidates to become peace keepers from the armies of the various countries.
How is wanting equal standards in the armed forces is a negative thing? Perhaps if better standards were use something like in this picture would have not happened.

 
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Mell

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How is wanting equal standards in the armed forces is a negative thing?
There are things that women can do, that men cant, when it comes to making trust and protection inroads in certain troubled countries.

There used to be a time when the NGOs could provide this kind of connection in those communities, but this no longer works, because the NGOs are no longer given the respect and immunity they used to be given by groups such as the Lords Army. Now, what women used to provide needs to be protected by large militarised units. They cannot penetrate these societies without the protection of being part of a millitary unit. If the NGO and/or female soldiers are not present, it will take longer and be a lot more difficult for UN soldiers to gain trust and access to isolated communities.

Anyway, hopefully somebody has something to say other than churning up the same old arguments about basing standards on physical strength alone. The way things used to be done in countries at war is no longer working, and ground breaking new methods need to be used.
 
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