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Global Warming-guys, lay it on me.

128shot

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I'm sick and very tired of doing research and looking for media opinions.


but so fair, this is my offical opinion.




That is a natural cycle, and that soon the earth with enter another cooling period.



Also, we have not been able to re-create this affect in a lab. No portional scales or nothing.



My opinion is shakey, so I'm seeking 3rd party information..
 

-Demosthenes-

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Also, we have not been able to re-create this affect in a lab. No portional scales or nothing.
Of global warming? The properties of green house gases are quite apparent in of themslelves.
 

xuiq

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it's natural, but we can speed up the cycles :smiles:
 

Diogenes

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128shot said:
I'm sick and very tired of doing research and looking for media opinions.
You might want to take a look at Michael Crichton's novel State Of Fear and check out the footnotes. He points to a number of interesting websites (sites with data, not opinions) that pretty much debunk the whole Kyoto hysteria.
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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OH yes. Mike Criton--because a fiction author knows tons about meteorology and climatology, right? Right? Sorry. When real scientists come out and say we have nothing to do with it, then I will believe it; not when jurassic park man say it.
 

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That evidence is not proof beyond doubt, but there is good evidence to support the alarmist position; of which I'm a member. In fact, in part what concerns me most is the volume of information supporting this position.

Considering the consequences of inaction - the potential or near extinction of the human race - what good argument can be made for risking everything in the face of the evidence? The way I see it, anyone who oppose decisive action to eliminate fossil fuel dependency, to preserves the worlds oceans, lakes, and streams, and to act on global warming effectively gambles with the lives of all who might [hope to] follow.

Who has this right in the face of the evidence? Why is it not the most responsible position to assume that the evidence is good and correct, to take action as quickly as possible based on our best scientific consensus of the time, and then continue the research? I just can't understand why anyone would take such a gamble with other people’s lives; including perhaps the lives of their own children
 

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Diogenes said:
You might want to take a look at Michael Crichton's novel State Of Fear and check out the footnotes. He points to a number of interesting websites (sites with data, not opinions) that pretty much debunk the whole Kyoto hysteria.

Here is a link refuting the pseudoscientific claims made in his book:
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74
 

Diogenes

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Technocratic_Utilitarian said:
OH yes. Mike Criton--because a fiction author knows tons about meteorology and climatology, right? Right? Sorry. When real scientists come out and say we have nothing to do with it, then I will believe it; not when jurassic park man say it.
He offered the links to the data, which is much more relevant than personal opinions, and in fact I have run across quite a few real scientists who don't believe human activities have much to do with what may be happening.
 

bandaidwoman

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Let me summarize. If you look at all the data, (and not just the links he provides.) many studies point to the overall climate change on the side of warming. And yes, there are the contrary depending on what variables are held constant. A healthy practice of science requires skepticism even amongst themselves. But what is not understood, is how much mankind contributes to the overall global warming That is the essence. This, most global scientists agree.(They do not make blanket statements about the human contribution to green house effects.) unlike the media. And I do think the media is hysterical about the latter issue.

However, since models predicting climate behavior are an imperfect science I am not going to argue the merits of emission controls based on global warming. Instead, there is a more substantial method and reason for emission control wether it relates to global warming or not.

Since epidimeology is a more exact science global warming models currently being utilized I propose medical epidimeology data as a more concrete method of advancing the cause of the Kyoto Treaty.


It is very, very easy to track the number of hospital admissions, emergency room visits for asthma exacerbations and other respiratory illnessess and show a direct correlation with the level of ozone for that day or week.

Asthma has increased in prevalence by fifty percent.... the one disease that has increased not only in prevalance but also mortality so it is a serious subject among medical professionals.

Study after study show that air pollutants exacerbate asthma but there are more and more studies showing that it causes asthma

see http://www.sinusnews.com/Articles2/...one-asthma.html

This is one of many studies.

Who suffers? Children who have to breath in fifty percent more air than adults per body mass. These studies show counties with higher ozone levels have three times more newly diagnosed asthmatics, more school absences due to respiratory problems, etc. etc.

The EPA has been good about reducing overall air pollutants, skeptics may ask why the increased rate in asthma? Once again, the answer depends on the question asked. The EPA bases its measurements on relatively large particle size airborne pollutants which are measured and thus define air quality index. Experts state that these air quality measurements do not measure the real and much more dangerous smaller particle pollutants which are comprising more and more of the emissions (? due to different fossil fuel burning technology? I don't know since I am not an expert in this stuff.)

Thus, some may not care about global warming or fuel supply, but its effect on medical expenditure usage, on increasing the prevelance of the one disease that has also increased in mortality (compared to strokes, heart attacks, all cancers etc.), the physical damage to the most vulnerable segment of our society, children... makes emissiion control a public health problem. ( I have only discussed asthma and did not even go into the exacerbations and increased death or hospitalizations of those with other lung diseases affected by air pollution.)

The Kyoto treaty is not just an environmental issue, it is a medical issue for many doctors and a public health crisis around the globe.
 
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H

hipsterdufus

The "scientists" that refute evidence of Global Warming are for the most part in the pockets of the big oil companies. First and foremost is Dr. Tim Ball:


Let's take a closer look at the good "doctor"

In 1996, Dr. Ball left his job at the University of Winnipeg for the more lucrative pursuit of scientific gun-for-hire ("environmental consultant"). It looks like he found a home at the American National Center for Public Policy Research, a Conservative front group supporting whatever initiatives their financial backers want them to endorse. Since 1997, one of their principal mandates has been to fight the environment movement in general and in particular, shoot down any regulation to decrease the emission of greenhouse gasses.
snip/

So Mr. Ball's performance as a mouthpiece for Big Oil and Conservative think-thanks is rather disappointing. A more talented employee would get five-page articles in Nature, not four-paragraph letters in the Ottawa Citizen.

If he were working for me, it would be time for a salary review.
http://worldofspin.blogspot.com/2004/05/good-dr-ball-gets-another-hit-for-big.html

Think Armstrong Williams here.

John Fleck has demolished Ball's bizarre nonsense: in The Bizarre Case of Tim Ball
http://www.abqjournal.com/cgi-bin/weblog.pl?perma=1932&topic_name=NM
 

ddoyle00

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Ok, so what info do we have? Skin research and the Kyoto Agreement.
The Kyoto would be a good idea if we were a struggling and impoverished third-world country because it allows them to skip all the restrictions that America and others have to abide by. In essence, it allows those countries without the necessary technology to manufacture and produce to increase their GPA to catch up with the rest of the world. It was a bad idea for us because it would have set us back a few dacades and it would have done nothing to the countires who are really doing the polluting? Ever see photos of Chinese industry? Its not pretty.

The whole hoopla surrounding global warming has been overblown by the media and scientists wanting more grant money. Remember in the 80's it was all the rage. Global warming and after 10 years it went away. Then it was killer bees or West Nile Virues mosquitos and now its a variation of the Spanish Flu that was already beaten back in WW1.

Anyone who has taken an Earth Science class and paid attention to the chapter about paleoclimatology can tell you that we are in an epoch known as the Pleistecine Era. This is an era of glacial retreat and has been going on for about 1,000 years. The Earth has a fairly predictible schedule of Ice Ages and then warming up. Right now we are warming up.The temperature of the atmosphere fluctuates over a wide range, the result of solar activity and other influences. During the past 3,000 years, there have been five extended periods when it was distinctly warmer than today. One of the two coldest periods, known as the Little Ice Age, occurred 300 years ago. Atmospheric temperatures have been rising from that low for the past 300 years, but remain below the 3,000-year average.

The highest temperatures during this period occurred in about 1940. During the past 20 years, atmospheric temperatures have actually tended to go down based on very reliable satellite data, which have been confirmed by measurements from weather balloons.
What mankind is doing is moving hydrocarbons from below ground and turning them into living things. We are living in an increasingly lush environment of plants and animals as a result of the carbon dioxide increase. Our children will enjoy an Earth with twice as much plant and animal life as that with which we now are blessed. This is a wonderful and unexpected gift from the industrial revolution.

Go to NOAA or any astrophysics webpage and look at their graphs about sunspot activity which again is fairly predictible and you will see weather is a direct reflection of the suns activity. What heats up the Earth then? The Sun heats up the Earth. All the carbon we are releasing into the air only adds to the atmosphere which in turn reflects solar activity. People are really conceited to think that we can directly affect something that has been going on for hundreds of million of years. Volcanoes release more pollutants than man ever will. Its another example of the media using scare tactics on its audience.
 
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ddoyle00 said:
Ok, so what info do we have? Skin research and the Kyoto Agreement.
The Kyoto would be a good idea if we were a struggling and impoverished third-world country because it allows them to skip all the restrictions that America and others have to abide by. In essence, it allows those countries without the necessary technology to manufacture and produce to increase their GPA to catch up with the rest of the world. It was a bad idea for us because it would have set us back a few dacades and it would have done nothing to the countires who are really doing the polluting? Ever see photos of Chinese industry? Its not pretty.

The whole hoopla surrounding global warming has been overblown by the media and scientists wanting more grant money. Remember in the 80's it was all the rage. Global warming and after 10 years it went away. Then it was killer bees or West Nile Virues mosquitos and now its a variation of the Spanish Flu that was already beaten back in WW1.

Anyone who has taken an Earth Science class and paid attention to the chapter about paleoclimatology can tell you that we are in an epoch known as the Pleistecine Era. This is an era of glacial retreat and has been going on for about 1,000 years. The Earth has a fairly predictible schedule of Ice Ages and then warming up. Right now we are warming up.The temperature of the atmosphere fluctuates over a wide range, the result of solar activity and other influences. During the past 3,000 years, there have been five extended periods when it was distinctly warmer than today. One of the two coldest periods, known as the Little Ice Age, occurred 300 years ago. Atmospheric temperatures have been rising from that low for the past 300 years, but remain below the 3,000-year average.

The highest temperatures during this period occurred in about 1940. During the past 20 years, atmospheric temperatures have actually tended to go down based on very reliable satellite data, which have been confirmed by measurements from weather balloons.
What mankind is doing is moving hydrocarbons from below ground and turning them into living things. We are living in an increasingly lush environment of plants and animals as a result of the carbon dioxide increase. Our children will enjoy an Earth with twice as much plant and animal life as that with which we now are blessed. This is a wonderful and unexpected gift from the industrial revolution.

Go to NOAA or any astrophysics webpage and look at their graphs about sunspot activity which again is fairly predictible and you will see weather is a direct reflection of the suns activity. What heats up the Earth then? The Sun heats up the Earth. All the carbon we are releasing into the air only adds to the atmosphere which in turn reflects solar activity. People are really conceited to think that we can directly affect something that has been going on for hundreds of million of years. Volcanoes release more pollutants than man ever will. Its another example of the media using scare tactics on its audience.
My God you possibly couldn't mislead people more if you tried (were you trying?). Nearly every other sentence you wrote is factually innaccurate.
 

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And your word alone is enough to disrepute? Like, "Oh crap, Onion Collection opened his/her mouth and disagreed with me, I must be wrong." Come on, take the time to find evidence supporting your side.
 

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OnionCollection said:
My God you possibly couldn't mislead people more if you tried (were you trying?). Nearly every other sentence you wrote is factually innaccurate.
You know Onion head this topic gets renewed thread after thread. You spout your swill on all of them. You cry chicken little everytime. That's some real good debating you did just there. Akin to saying, "nuh-uh". So genius, what are you saying? There wasn't ice ages before? The sun has nothing to do with the Earth's temperature? Your science is missing. How about you come up with something? I'll let you go first. Al Gore said so does not count as a fact.
 
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Anyone who has taken an Earth Science class and paid attention to the chapter about paleoclimatology can tell you that we are in an epoch known as the Pleistecine Era.
No we aren't, it ended 10,000 years ago.

This is an era of glacial retreat and has been going on for about 1,000 years.
10,000

During the past 3,000 years, there have been five extended periods when it was distinctly warmer than today.
No there haven't. This is the warmest period of the last 3,000 years. See: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c1/2000_Year_Temperature_Comparison.png

One of the two coldest periods, known as the Little Ice Age, occurred 300 years ago. Atmospheric temperatures have been rising from that low for the past 300 years, but remain below the 3,000-year average.
This just isn't correct.

The highest temperatures during this period occurred in about 1940. During the past 20 years, atmospheric temperatures have actually tended to go down based on very reliable satellite data, which have been confirmed by measurements from weather balloons.
Nope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Satellite_Temperatures.png

Go to NOAA or any astrophysics webpage and look at their graphs about sunspot activity which again is fairly predictible and you will see weather is a direct reflection of the suns activity.
Solar activity has not increased in the last 20 years, but temperature has.

All the carbon we are releasing into the air only adds to the atmosphere which in turn reflects solar activity.
It traps thermal energy.

People are really conceited to think that we can directly affect something that has been going on for hundreds of million of years.

If algae can do it, I have no reason to think humans can't.

Volcanoes release more pollutants than man ever will.
Volcanoes emit only about 1% of co2 that humans emit.
 
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ddoyle00 said:
And your word alone is enough to disrepute? Like, "Oh crap, Onion Collection opened his/her mouth and disagreed with me, I must be wrong." Come on, take the time to find evidence supporting your side.
Perhaps I would take you more seriously if you hadn't copy-pasted half your post from a website without crediting it.
 

Technocratic_Utilitarian

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Onion. Don't expect intelligent conversation with Global Warming deniers. Obviously you are leagues beyond them---just think, anyone with a basic earth science class will learn we are still in the Pleistocene :lol:
 
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I wouldn't say im "leagues beyond them". In general I know hardly anything, there are many topics which I have no idea about, and even on this topic I only know basic stuff. I bet they know more than me about stuff in general. The only reason I got annoyed in this case was the same reason i get annoyed when I see stupid arguments against evolution.
 

steen

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It is to be expected, though. Those types feel that ideology/faith trumps facts, that if they spew the lie often enough, it is accepted as fact.

Fundies and conservatives are big on presenting wishful thinking as facts and denying actual facts solely because they don't like them.
 
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