Glee's Cory Monteith dies of overdose

[ChrisL]

That's because if they are functional, then you won't see or hear about it, they generally keep it to themselves. They do exist though, there are some good documentaries about them on youtube

I don't think there is such a thing as a "functional" heroin addict. If so, they are the exception and not the rule.

LOL! Have you ever seen somebody high on heroin? That is NOT something you can hide from others. It's quite obvious.

 

[americanwoman]

Thoughts for his loved ones. I always find it sad when someone overdoses.

 

[HumanBeing]

I don't think there is such a thing as a "functional" heroin addict. If so, they are the exception and not the rule.

LOL! Have you ever seen somebody high on heroin? That is NOT something you can hide from others. It's quite obvious.

I think you're relying too much on stereotypes. The only reason I even know that functional heroin addicts exist is because I found out I had one working for me after over two years of employing him (and yes, I fired him, but not for being a heroin addict, I fired him for bringing hard drugs into my office). There are people who use it in moderation and don't inject, and chances are you've met at least one or two without even knowing it. They don't all walk around with needles sticking out of their foreheads.

 

[Guy Incognito]

I think you're relying too much on stereotypes. The only reason I even know that functional heroin addicts exist is because I found out I had one working for me after over two years of employing him (and yes, I fired him, but not for being a heroin addict, I fired him for bringing hard drugs into my office). There are people who use it in moderation and don't inject, and chances are you've met at least one or two without even knowing it. They don't all walk around with needles sticking out of their foreheads.

The artificial distinction between "hard" and "soft" drugs is an interesting way to rationalize hypocrisy.

 

[ChrisL]

I think you're relying too much on stereotypes. The only reason I even know that functional heroin addicts exist is because I found out I had one working for me after over two years of employing him (and yes, I fired him, but not for being a heroin addict, I fired him for bringing hard drugs into my office). There are people who use it in moderation and don't inject, and chances are you've met at least one or two without even knowing it. They don't all walk around with needles sticking out of their foreheads.

Again, that is the exception not the rule. Most heroin junkies cannot hold down jobs.

And here you refer to him as "functional" yet you find out that he's bringing his drugs onto the job site, which could be dangerous not only for himself but co workers. :roll: MOST except for a very small minority of heroin junkies are completely dysfunctional. Have you ever seen somebody who's high on heroin? If you had there is no WAY you would refer to them as functional in any way. They might as well be in a coma.

 

[HumanBeing]

The artificial distinction between "hard" and "soft" drugs is an interesting way to rationalize hypocrisy.

No, it's a simple way to distinguish between things like caffine and methamphetamine. While they do have similarities, they don't deserve to be clumped together into one group.

@ChrisL, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Guy Incognito]

No, it's a simple way to distinguish between things like caffine and methamphetamine. While they do have similarities, they don't deserve to be clumped together into one group.

@ChrisL, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Yeah, I get the two groups thing. The drugs you like and the drugs you don't. Do not pretend that there is anything more than personal prejudice involved.

 

[Thoreau72]

Again, that is the exception not the rule. Most heroin junkies cannot hold down jobs.

And here you refer to him as "functional" yet you find out that he's bringing his drugs onto the job site, which could be dangerous not only for himself but co workers. :roll: MOST except for a very small minority of heroin junkies are completely dysfunctional. Have you ever seen somebody who's high on heroin? If you had there is no WAY you would refer to them as functional in any way. They might as well be in a coma.

You are talking about junkies using black market street heroin, which is notorious for being adulterated and with no control over strength or dosage.

The experience of William Halstead of Johns Hopkins, and various other more contemporary experiments done in Switzerland and other places show that properly maintained heroin users can indeed function fine, assuming the individual is so motivated.

 

[Thoreau72]

Seriously? Heroin addicts will lie and cheat. They will forge their paperwork and do almost anything to get a fix. They aren't going to listen to the doctor because the ONLY thing that matters to them is where are they going to get their next fix and getting high. NOTHING else matters.

Humans lie and cheat, especially the ones in politics and Wall STreet.

 

[Thoreau72]

Instead of legalization, how about just decriminalization. I'm all for the legalization of marijuana and less harmful drugs, and I certainly don't think drug addicts should be in jail simply for using drugs. I'm just not sure about "legalization" of heroin.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of drug addicts who were arrested and served time in jail did so most often because of other charges on top of the drugs, such as getting caught breaking and entering and having heroin on their person and scenarios such as that.

Decriminalization is not a coherent argument. It says that it's OK for a person to possess the substance, but it's illegal to sell the substance. How crazy is that? How practical is that?

 

[Thoreau72]

If the fact that a person died from heroin is not fact enough reason for you why legalization is a bad idea, then there is nothing I can recommend to you except maybe a logic course.
As for alcohol, I wouldn't oppose prohibition of it.

Are you able to make a coherent case in favor of prohibition of alcohol? I would love to hear it.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Coroner: 'Glee' actor Monteith died of overdose - Canada news - Boston.com


So why again should heroine be legal?

If accidental death from its use was the only criteria for banning a thing then cars should be illegal as well. More deaths occur form abuse of "legal" drugs than from illegal drugs, many of those that overdose also use alcohol in combination with them.

CDC - Prescription Painkiller Overdoses Policy Impact Brief - Home and Recreational Safety - Injury Center

 

[Fisher]

Are you able to make a coherent case in favor of prohibition of alcohol? I would love to hear it.

It kills people, often not the person consuming it.

 

[ChrisL]

Decriminalization is not a coherent argument. It says that it's OK for a person to possess the substance, but it's illegal to sell the substance. How crazy is that? How practical is that?

It's not crazy at all. It means the person who has a problem with addiction is not going to be punished for his or her addiction.

 

[ChrisL]

Humans lie and cheat, especially the ones in politics and Wall STreet.

Yes, and that is exacerbated when there is drugs or money involved and when one's judgment is clouded by drug abuse.

 

[ChrisL]

You are talking about junkies using black market street heroin, which is notorious for being adulterated and with no control over strength or dosage.

The experience of William Halstead of Johns Hopkins, and various other more contemporary experiments done in Switzerland and other places show that properly maintained heroin users can indeed function fine, assuming the individual is so motivated.

Uh, hello? We ONLY have black market heroin available. It's ILLEGAL. LOL! You ARE amusing.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

He died from ODing on two drugs, you only called out one of them. I compared it to the other. You understand that, but are choosing to ignore it because you have no rational response to it.



You're promoting policies that lead to needless deaths. I'm promoting policies that are proven to save lives. So which one of us has impaired cognitive function, and which one of us actually has every ethical right to get worked up over the views of the other?


They are both dangerous drugs, no doubt about it. I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of the double standard you impose on one but not the other. One would have thought the one posing the biggest problem would be the one you'd want to take issue with, and clearly that's alcohol.

You're clearly injecting your bias and stating my position on something when you clearly have no facts to support your unwarranted assumptions. But by all means, make yourself feel better. Isn't that what drug use is all about to you?

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

If accidental death from its use was the only criteria for banning a thing then cars should be illegal as well. More deaths occur form abuse of "legal" drugs than from illegal drugs, many of those that overdose also use alcohol in combination with them.

CDC - Prescription Painkiller Overdoses Policy Impact Brief - Home and Recreational Safety - Injury Center

The thread is about: So why again should heroine be legal?

If your response is your rationalization to legalize heroine, then I'm not buying it.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Because this man's death is evidence that the prohibition has failed. It could not and did not prevent access to the forbidden substances.

Further, if you were paying attention, you would know that with controlled access to this drug, under the supervision of medical professionals, the use of the drug is not fatal at all. Many countries have policies that allow this, and deaths are rare. In clinical settings, proper use of the drug allows users to be fully functioning and productive members of society.

Probably the first documented case of this goes back to John Halstead MD, one of the founders of Johns Hopkins Medical School. He self administered for many years and was a functioning physician.

So you're rational to legalize heroine for recreational use is based on a one person sample of functioning users/addicts?

That speaks volumes.

 

[Thoreau72]

It kills people, often not the person consuming it.

That's not a coherent argument, for several reasons. Other substances and items do the same thing. The historical record shows prohibition of consumer items to be utterly ineffective, and full of unintended consequences.

Take another try if you'd like, but be advised it's a losing proposition.

 

[Thoreau72]

Uh, hello? We ONLY have black market heroin available. It's ILLEGAL. LOL! You ARE amusing.

Not entirely true or persuasive. Though it is illegal, we do have legal pharmaceutical cocaine available. Though it is illegal on the street, we do have legal morphine available.

I'm glad you are amused, but arguing with misinformed people is not amusing, it is tiresome.

 

[Thoreau72]

So you're rational to legalize heroine for recreational use is based on a one person sample of functioning users/addicts?

That speaks volumes.

No, the experiences of William Halstead is not the reason I favor drug law repeal. His is but one interesting story, and I use it to counter the uninformed claims of prohibitionists.

No, I favor the repeal of the drug prohibition because of the very clear record, very well documented, of the failure of prohibition, and especially the long list of social pathologies generated by such policy.

 

[Thoreau72]

So you're rational to legalize heroine for recreational use is based on a one person sample of functioning users/addicts?

That speaks volumes.

No, the experiences of William Halstead is not the reason I favor drug law repeal. His is but one interesting story, and I use it to counter the uninformed claims of prohibitionists.

No, I favor the repeal of the drug prohibition because of the very clear record, very well documented, of the failure of prohibition, and especially the long list of social pathologies generated by such policy.

 

[FilmFestGuy]

Such a great talent. Why do people ruin their lives by getting into drugs?

Genetics.
Environment.
Exposure.

With heroin especially, once hooked, it is VERY hard to get off.

There are theories that Oxycontin is one of the main reason for the rise in heroin usage. People get prescribed Oxy for pain; get hooked when their doctor doesn't take them down properly; and heroin is the next best thing - essentially it's the same thing.

I've seen it happen to very successful professionals (the oxy part - not the heroin part). Back injury. Doc prescribes Oxy. Person is an addict within a couple of months and is jonesing for more Oxy.

Of course, that's all perfectly legal.

I'm personally for decriminalizing usage and here's why. Nearly every heroin addict who dies, dies alone. "Good" (I'm obviously using this term very, very loosely) heroin users know that you can't be alone and use the drug. It's actually not that hard to treat an overdose if it occurs - but if you're alone, you can't treat it and you're gone. With addiction, come shame. With shame, comes isolation. Heroin in isolation is deadly. If we decriminalize usage, it makes it easier for the addict to get help. There isn't the worry of arrest in simply mentioning that you want help. Many addicts are afraid to admit addiction because they think they'll get arrested. If we remove that hindrance, I think more addicts would eventually find the help they need to kick the habit. And, if the addiction is heroin, you HAVE to have help to kick it.

I speak not from using anything, aside from beer and the occasional mixed drink. I barely smoked pot in college. But I worked in a mental health / addictions treatment facility for a few years and learned a lot there. It's very sad stuff, but once a person makes their way to other side, it's pretty rewarding. But it takes a lot of time and a lot of help and enough strength to admit one's weaknesses.

 

[CanadaJohn]

I'm prepared to be slammed by the gun ownership advocates but, except for the constitutional argument, the same arguments for or against drugs can be made.

- guns don't kill people, people kill people with guns = drugs don't kill people, people abusing drugs kill people

- with proper training and responsibility, gun ownership can be an enjoyable passtime and hobby for people who respect the danger and power of guns = with proper training and responsibility, drug use can be an enjoyable passtime and hobby for people who respect the danger and power of drugs

- gun control/prohibition only allows criminals to have and sell guns and honest citizens not to = drug control/prohibition only allows criminals to have and sell drugs and honest citizens not to

- illegal trafficking in guns is the cause of many gun related crimes = illegal trafficking in drugs is the cause of many drug related crimes

It's a subject that causes me internal conflict, but it may simply be time to legalize and regulate the wide variety of recreational drugs, similar to alcohol and guns and severely punish those who continue to illegally deal drugs.