Agreed. At this point in my life, I've got as far as assuming there must be some constant beyond morality, that being unequal to any enduring appeal. It seems counter-intuitive that the universe we inhabit should be defined by a conflict between existence itself and personal desire. We might call it enlightenment.at best, morality is weighing different priorities against a circumstance. There is no one principal that should always take precedence.
For example, one could say "do no harm" but there are times when harm is warranted, such as during surgery.
One could say "dont do something to someone without their consent" and then have to be a judge or a police officer.
One could say "don't initiate force" and be dealing people who are acting in self harmful ways where the best thing you can do is save them from themselves.
The closest thing I can come to a single principal is "act with empathy" but that is so vague as to be almost useless.
Agreed. At this point in my life, I've got as far as assuming there must be some constant beyond morality, that being unequal to any enduring appeal. It seems counter-intuitive that the universe we inhabit should be defined by a conflict between existence itself and personal desire. We might call it enlightenment.
**** if I know what that might be. If you ever figure it out, let me know.
And that might just be the point. I'm concerned that morality is no more than the effect of a consideration for others that isn't entirely selfless. For morality to be no more negotiation, to me, would not seem in keeping with the spirit of any higher ideal. The closest an Atheist might get to morality is what they'd reject as being God. There's no way around it. Imperfection presupposes morality as being something inhuman. Or superhuman, whatever. As such, it's moot. Even then, godhood being something unattainable, I think we're missing the point. Perhaps the desire for morality is closer to the solution than the moralities we invent for it. Desire might be enough and we can do no wrong.The universe is an uncaring and cold place of physics and math. That's how I see it at least. Whatever we humans overlay on top of it (like morality, money, property, and other social constructs) are for our own comfort and in a way part of that coldness, because we do it for us. We like to think there is more and in that desire, we create comforts.
Its a bit jarring, but in a way it has its advantages, people have a great deal of freedom that they wouldn't have otherwise in such a world. The freedom to stake their claim and make things happen.
And that might just be the point. I'm concerned that morality is no more than the effect of a consideration for others that isn't entirely selfless. For morality to be no more negotiation, to me, would not seem in keeping with the spirit of any higher ideal. The closest an Atheist might get to morality is what they'd reject as being God. There's no way around it. Imperfection presupposes morality as being something inhuman. Or superhuman, whatever. As such, it's moot. Even then, godhood being something unattainable, I think we're missing the point. Perhaps the desire for morality is closer to the solution than the moralities we invent for it. Desire might be enough and we can do no wrong.
Good post, brah.My view of morality is that it's just instinctual social behaviors. It's why it's so hard to define because it is an associative rather than logical process.
But that doesn't mean it's wrong or meaningless, so long as we accept that meaning itself is arbitrary. When I first realized this I was depressed for a few years because I wanted more. But I realized that if I can define my own parameters, it gives me unbound freedom to own my own life and be the best person I can. I am far nicer, strong, social, and a better member of society because I can do it one own moral terms.
As far as the spiritual side. I am still figuring it out. When I pray I talk to something and it guides me, often makes predictions that come true, and makes things in my life change if I cannot handle a circumstance. But I don't exactly know what it is. I often tell it to leave me alone and that I am not worthy but it never lets me go and just wraps me up in love and patience. I suppose this thing is god but who knows. I have a lot of trouble with this aspect of my life because I am not exactly the spiritual type and I am not inclined to it. This entity makes most of the effort to keep involved into life. Either that or I am just crazy which isn't beyond the realm of possibility. But this entity has made me much more peaceful, relaxed, and comfortable with life. Less apt to be as self centered as I used to be.
My view of morality is that it's just instinctual social behaviors. It's why it's so hard to define because it is an associative rather than logical process.
But that doesn't mean it's wrong or meaningless, so long as we accept that meaning itself is arbitrary. When I first realized this I was depressed for a few years because I wanted more. But I realized that if I can define my own parameters, it gives me unbound freedom to own my own life and be the best person I can. I am far nicer, strong, social, and a better member of society because I can do it one own moral terms.
As far as the spiritual side. I am still figuring it out. When I pray I talk to something and it guides me, often makes predictions that come true, and makes things in my life change if I cannot handle a circumstance. But I don't exactly know what it is. I often tell it to leave me alone and that I am not worthy but it never lets me go and just wraps me up in love and patience. I suppose this thing is god but who knows. I have a lot of trouble with this aspect of my life because I am not exactly the spiritual type and I am not inclined to it. This entity makes most of the effort to keep involved into life. Either that or I am just crazy which isn't beyond the realm of possibility. But this entity has made me much more peaceful, relaxed, and comfortable with life. Less apt to be as self centered as I used to be.
My view of morality is that it's just instinctual social behaviors. It's why it's so hard to define because it is an associative rather than logical process.
But that doesn't mean it's wrong or meaningless, so long as we accept that meaning itself is arbitrary. When I first realized this I was depressed for a few years because I wanted more. But I realized that if I can define my own parameters, it gives me unbound freedom to own my own life and be the best person I can. I am far nicer, strong, social, and a better member of society because I can do it one own moral terms.
As far as the spiritual side. I am still figuring it out. When I pray I talk to something and it guides me, often makes predictions that come true, and makes things in my life change if I cannot handle a circumstance. But I don't exactly know what it is. I often tell it to leave me alone and that I am not worthy but it never lets me go and just wraps me up in love and patience. I suppose this thing is god but who knows. I have a lot of trouble with this aspect of my life because I am not exactly the spiritual type and I am not inclined to it. This entity makes most of the effort to keep involved into life. Either that or I am just crazy which isn't beyond the realm of possibility. But this entity has made me much more peaceful, relaxed, and comfortable with life. Less apt to be as self centered as I used to be.
Since cultures develop different moral systems in the various parts of the world what one idea would you want to be a part of every one of them?
The one I would chose is to treat others as you would be treated.
Sounds good in principle, unless a person is a sado-masochist.
:yt Such a book as that might even be called the Bible.Nicely written, folks, and no I don't think you are crazy. You are far from alone in those perceptions about having some kind of personal guide or guardian helping you through decisions at times in your life.
Your discussion on whether there can be a simple moral imperative that stands absolute in all circumstances makes me think, if someone were to try and write a secular guide to morality it would soon become very complex. There are so many possibilities, so many different circumstances where the ideas of "right" and "wrong" need to be carefully considered that they can't be simplified. Such a book would have many, many pages. It may be necessary to use metaphors to describe the more esoteric ideas. Finally, one would begin speaking in parables...
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