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Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

but what's YOUR take?

Since I first started researching Obama, (before he was elected,) I've been concerned about his upbringing. I don't believe someone could lead the life he's lead without his view of America to be a much different view than my own.

When a scumbag commits heinous crimes, liberals are the first to look at his background to find reasons (excuses) for his behavior.

It baffles me that liberals don't put 2 and 2 together and realize Obama's actions and policies may have some connection to his past.

I think Obama is socialist. I always have.

I'm surprised (pleasantly) that Newt was willing to address this.

I also think many liberals know very well that he is a socialist and they are fine with it. To them, socialism is a good thing.
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

Since I first started researching Obama, (before he was elected,) I've been concerned about his upbringing. I don't believe someone could lead the life he's lead without his view of America to be a much different view than my own.

When a scumbag commits heinous crimes, liberals are the first to look at his background to find reasons (excuses) for his behavior.

It baffles me that liberals don't put 2 and 2 together and realize Obama's actions and policies may have some connection to his past.

I think Obama is socialist. I always have.

I'm surprised (pleasantly) that Newt was willing to address this.

I also think many liberals know very well that he is a socialist and they are fine with it. To them, socialism is a good thing.

A Socialist means what in your opinion?
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

A Socialist means what in your opinion?

For starters, here's what I think Obama has in mind.


Everyone dependent on the government for healthcare.
Not able to choose our own doctors and government deciding what care we can have.
Everyone dependent on government for an education.
Eventually told what careers we will have.
Many people depending on government for food, housing, and daycare.
Government in control of our energy.
We may be allowed to own our own homes but will eventually be told what temperature we have to keep it.
We'll be forced into things we don't want to drive by artificially inflated gas prices.
Most of our wages will go to the government so we can receive all the "free" things.
The government will control the media including the internet.
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

For starters, here's what I think Obama has in mind.


Everyone dependent on the government for healthcare.
Not able to choose our own doctors and government deciding what care we can have.
Everyone dependent on government for an education.
Eventually told what careers we will have.
Many people depending on government for food, housing, and daycare.
Government in control of our energy.
We may be allowed to own our own homes but will eventually be told what temperature we have to keep it.
We'll be forced into things we don't want to drive by artificially inflated gas prices.
Most of our wages will go to the government so we can receive all the "free" things.
The government will control the media including the internet.

He also plans to make your kids date each other and if you don't sleep more than 8 hours a night he'll personally come to your house and slap the living **** out of you.
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

I wouldn't worry too much.

Newt is just exhibiting some of that classic Irish intemperance.
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

He also plans to make your kids date each other and if you don't sleep more than 8 hours a night he'll personally come to your house and slap the living **** out of you.
Finally, an Obama Administration policy I can support!
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

washingtonpost.com

I kinda agree with Eugene Robinson on this one.

His lunacy certainly seems genuine enough. It's one thing to be a rhetorical bomb-thrower, as Gingrich has long fancied himself, and another to lob damp squibs of pure nonsense into the fray. The man's contributions to the public discourse have become increasingly unhinged.
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

For starters, here's what I think Obama has in mind.


Everyone dependent on the government for healthcare.
Not able to choose our own doctors and government deciding what care we can have.
Everyone dependent on government for an education.
Eventually told what careers we will have.
Many people depending on government for food, housing, and daycare.
Government in control of our energy.
We may be allowed to own our own homes but will eventually be told what temperature we have to keep it.
We'll be forced into things we don't want to drive by artificially inflated gas prices.
Most of our wages will go to the government so we can receive all the "free" things.
The government will control the media including the internet.

your post is NOTHING but hannity/rush/beck/savage et al talking points. i challenge you to prove your assertions barb.
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

Curious...

How many people here have actually read Obama, Sr's 1965 paper, "Problems Facing our (African/Kenyan) Socialism"?

Unless you've read it, I don't think you can comment on how the problems Obama, Sr saw things in his country in 1965 can be viewed in the same context of U.S. economic, social, commercial, industrial or budgetary problems in 2010 as Obama, Jr. may see them. True enough, there ARE some similarities, but there are also some vast differences.

The paper is a very interesting read, however.

It is real easy to see what Barry had in mind for Kenya as recent as 2006....

About 50 parishioners were locked into the Assemblies of God church before it was set ablaze. They were mostly women and children. Those who tried to flee were hacked to death by machete-wielding members of a mob numbering 2,000.

The 2008 New Year Day atrocity in the Kenyan village Eldoret, about 185 miles northwest of Nairobi, had all the markings of the Rwanda genocide of a decade earlier.

By mid-February 2008, more than 1,500 Kenyans were killed. Many were slain by machete-armed attackers. More than 500,000 were displaced by the religious strife. Villages lay in ruin. Many of the atrocities were perpetrated by Muslims against Christians.

The violence was led by supporters of Raila Odinga, the opposition leader who lost the Dec. 27, 2007, presidential election by more than 230,000 votes. Odinga supporters began the genocide hours after the final election results were announced Dec. 30. Mr. Odinga was a member of Parliament representing an area in western Kenya, heavily populated by the Luo tribe, and the birthplace of Barack Obama's father.
*snip*

Initially, Mr. Odinga was not the favored opposition candidate to stand in the 2007 election against President Mwai Kibaki, who was seeking his second term. However, he received a tremendous boost when Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Kenya in August 2006 to campaign on his behalf. Mr. Obama denies that supporting Mr. Odinga was the intention of his trip, but his actions and local media reports tell otherwise.

Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama were nearly inseparable throughout Mr. Obama's six-day stay. The two traveled together throughout Kenya and Mr. Obama spoke on behalf of Mr. Odinga at numerous rallies.
In contrast, Mr. Obama had only criticism for Kibaki. He lashed out against the Kenyan government shortly after meeting with the president on Aug. 25. "The [Kenyan] people have to suffer over corruption perpetrated by government officials," Mr. Obama announced.

HYMAN: Obama's Kenya ghosts - Washington Times

Not only was what Barry did distasteful and anti-American, but it was also possibly in violation of the Logan Act and he should have been prosecuted as soon as he set foot back in the US.
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

Crunch,

What has any of that got to do with the thread topic? And I'll ask again, have you read Obama Sr's paper from 1965? If not, I don't think we have much to discuss here.

More to the point...

I think many people have a very paranoid view of what President Obama is trying to do. Why? Because most people are resistant to change no matter how big or small. Of course, before anyone can accept change they have to have a decent understanding of why the changes are being implemented in the first place. Obviously, the President believes there are many areas within our social dynamic that haven't worked well enough that they need to be tweaked or a new agency implemented. This brings me to Barbbtx' list of issues she has with what she believes is the President surreptitious policies.

For starters, here's what I think Obama has in mind.

Everyone dependent on the government for healthcare.
Not able to choose our own doctors and government deciding what care we can have.

It could be argued that's exactly what President Obama wants, to force the citizenry over time to become dependent on the government for their health care benefits. If you gloss over reading the Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act, I can understand how one would come away with that impression. I've been reading the legislation and as I understand how the system is intended to work the government sets the minimum health care standards (which isn't unlike what was already happening via the Dept. of Health and Human Services) but first gives the responsibility to the states to implement health care exchanges either individually or collectively with their neighboring states. The only way the federal government gets into the health care provision portion of the legislation is they afford the states the option not to form their own exchanges. Only then would residents of that non-participating state then look to the federal government for insurance coverage, but here's the catch that most people forget: Even if a state decides not to participate only those individual who are poor or who are part of the labor force but chooses for their own economic benefit to acquire their health insurance from the government instead of through their employer would they seek coverage from the government. Until and unless such a personal decision is made, that individual, if part of the working class, may elect to remain on the insurance policy offered by his employer. Now, here's where it gets tricky.

If the employer determines it is more cost effective to switch from a private insurance plan offered by an insurance company in the state inwhich he is licensed for business to an insurance policy offered by the federal government, he can make that switch. This is the aspect of the health care reform legislation that many people fear may happen - that employers will drop their insurance providers at the state-level and go to the federal government because of the collective buying power the federal government and only the federal government can achieve. But what we have to remember here is even the government's health insurance exchange cost money. And who's to say that what the government offers would be better than what any given state can offer? It is this aspect of "choice and competition" that the government hopes will drives insurance companies to do whatever they must in order to remain competitive in their own respective marketplaces. Regardless of the outcome, neither individuals nor employers would be required to switch insurance providers. It remains their right to make that choice for themselves.

As to the issue of "mandatory coverage", all I can say is in the short-run it will cost the government millions if not billions to cover those who in their estimates do not have health insurance currently, but it has looked into the short-falls and has enacted legislation via the Patient Protection & Affordable Care Act providing funding (health care credits) to those who otherwise can't afford to acquire health insurance on their own. Furthermore, the Health Care & Education Affordability Reconcilliation Act addresses the education side of the health care equation regarding the potential short-fall of skilled medical professionals, i.e., training and educating more doctors, nurses and surgeons, health care technicians, and provides financial aid to promote said training and education to those individuals who wish to have lasting careers in the medical industry. However, this aid will eventually come to an end and the People will have to start paying out of their own pockets. (I believe the cut-off period for issuing health care credits is around 2019; I don't know what the cut-off period is for Pell Grants and student loans or if there is one.) To pay for the administrative cost for the government's ability to manage the Health Care Exchange, it has been determined that the best way to do this is to tax businesses according to their size (number of employees) or profit level. However, as I understand the legislation, the tax is only collected from those businesses - large and small - who choose not to provide health insurance to their employees. That same goes for the "fee" on individuals who decide not to obtain health insurance; however, what's not being mentioned is even in such instances where the individual is concerned said individual can acquire a "waiver (exemption)" so as he would not be required to pay the "fee".

Bottom line here is there are many levels to health care reform legislation, but the route to health care coverage under the new reforms are:

*Employer sponsored as most Americans are generally covered this way.
*Individual acquisition - you decide to either remain on your employer's insurance plan or obtain a policy on your own using those funds your employer would normally pay towards your health insurance coverage.
*Employer can remain with the "group plan" that is normally acquired within his state.
*Employer can switch to a state- or federally sponsored Health Insurance Exchange, as provided.
*Individuals can acquire health insurance coverage either through their state- or federally sponsored Health Insurance Exchange, as provided, OR if the individual does not have the financial means to purchase same on his own he can apply for health care credits OR come under Medicaid (or dependent children under CHIP).

Everyone dependent on government for an education.

Many people have argued disbanding the Dept. of Education because in their view the public education system has failed to do what it was designed to do - provide a high level education to our nation's children. I ask, "Is that the fault of the federal government or the individual state?"

The fed may set a baseline standard, but it is the states who implement those standards. Their requirements for achieving that baseline standard can be the federal government's minimum OR they can demand more of their Board of Education, teachers, and students and set that bar higher. Therefore, sense every state funds their own education system, who's really at fault for the poor academic results? The federal government for setting the bar low enough so that every child has a chance to succeed OR the state for not setting the bar high enough? Put another way, would you rather the federal government set the baseline standard HIGH knowing full well students in your stand on average fall far below that standard, or would you rather the fed take the lowest or average standard scores and informs the nation "we can do better, here is your baseline based on the collective results of the whole?"

I think most people will agree that the cost of post-secondary education - college - has gotten extremely expensive these days. Working-class Americans who have worked most of their lives well into adulthood who should be looking forward to living a modest debt-free life are now faced with the added debt of paying for their children's college education. While there are programs out there that help people save funds over time to pay for college, what has been happening over the years is that tuition costs have gone up but their investments and income have remained relatively the same. As such in many cases, even those with 529 plans or 401K plans are still having to borrow or place purchases on their credit cards to pay for a quality education for their children. Student loans have been "scams" for colleges and universities whereby they are "partners" with the very financial entity providing students loans and/or scholarship funding. Furthermore, students are finding it extremely difficult to pay back their loans years after graduation. Many take the position "it's the student and/or his/her parent's problem," and I agree to a point. The problem is how do we address the doctor/nurse shortage that has been a problem in our country for years, the overall health care problem, the eventual doctor/nurse shortage that will be further impacted by enacted health care legislation and provide financial reform within our college education system? As to the issue of public education, I've already attempted to address that problem area.

Bottom line here is unless you want this country to continue to lag behind in the number of high school and college graduates both of whom affect our nation's ability to remain competitive and innovative in the industrial and technological age, and you want students to continue to turn away from going to college because tuition costs are too high or have a difficult time paying off student loans, we need to do something to bring down the cost of attaining a post-secondary education and make it easier for parents if not the students themselves to afford a college education. I use this merely as an example, not to start a discussion on our nation's education system.

(Continued in next post...)
 
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Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

(Continued from previous post...)


Eventually told what careers we will have.

That's akin to saying we'll all be wearing the same uniforms to work and school one day. Not gonna happen...well, school uniforms...maybe.

Many people depending on government for food, housing, and daycare.

In times of national disaster, our government already provides emergency rations to the affected public. I don't see this being an everyday thing, however. As far as I know the government doesn't own farmland, but many private companies do. The problem, of course, is safety. Left to their own devices, most private companies would cut corners just to save a few thousand dollars at the expense of safety (i.e. BP). That's were federal health and safety regulations come in.

States provide public housing already to the poor. What alternative would you propose to ending homelessness or reducing same as much as possible?

As for daycare...I think there are enough private companies and individuals around to tackle this issue. I don't foresee a scenarios whereby the fed would become a babysitting service.

Government in control of our energy.

I wouldn't say "controlling" our energy, but I can see where the government can "push" us to wean ourselves off foreign energy sources (oil) and do things that can make the country more energy independent domestically (i.e., the electric car, solar power, drilling for oil at home more, wind power, or allowing the market to produce more energy efficient appliances). I don't see this as a bad thing. Sometimes, we get complacent and need to be pushed to "turn the energy corner" so to speak. If it's a push in the right direction toward innovations and energy sources that bring down the cost of fuel, utilities and transportation, why not advocate for it instead of working against it just because one energy industry or another may lose a portion of their market dominance? If it's better for the consumers and for the country overall, it's a good thing!

Again, if as individuals we can see the big picture - that our nation is spending billions on foreign energy (oil) and not taking full advantage of the resources and technology we have at home - I can certainly understand being pushed by our government to go in a completely different direction where our energy independence is concerned. Our national security if not our very economy may depend on it.

We may be allowed to own our own homes but will eventually be told what temperature we have to keep it.

This is extremely far reaching. No one's going to tell you what internal temperature is more comfortable or convenient for you our your household. It's a rather absurd notion.

We'll be forced into things we don't want to drive by artificially inflated gas prices.

See commentary under “Government in control of our energy” above.


Most of our wages will go to the government so we can receive all the "free" things.

You're talking about taxes here. I think our capitalistic system will remain uniquely American and people will continue to want to do for themselves as best they can. However, while "working" is the reward for those of us who fall into the "not-quite rich" group, there are those who may never be in a position to work 40+ hours/week or acquire the skills to perform tasks most of us take for granted. Some people just won't be fortunate to take on a 9-5 job for reasons too various to mention here. In those such cases, I believe our government has a responsibility to such people. However, I also believe in "providing for" individuals who utilize such social programs in order to survive, the government must also provide avenues whereby the individual can "get off the government's tit" so to speak. But here again, as I see it this is a state issue, not a federal issue. Why? Just as I stated at the opening of this lengthy commentary, I believe the fed sets the standard but the states enact those standards. And if the state doesn't provide an environment or mandates that individuals cannot abuse the "system", then people will continue to feed off said system. Still, I don't see a situation where everyone will be required to pay say 50% of their wages towards taxes. The People would revolt for sure! Besides, we as individuals rather enjoy fending for ourselves...gives us pride for accomplishing a job "Well Done!" However, I do understand your concerns. I just don't see where everyone will ever become dependent on the government for everything we want, need or do. Our system of governance just doesn't work that way.

The government will control the media including the internet.

To a degree, the government has always controlled the media since WW1. While I do believe the nation still has a fair percentage of "freedom of the press", I do believe that from time to time the government does "instruct" media outlets what to "discuss" and what not to "discuss" - or shall I say "release" to the public. Sometimes, it's better that the public doesn't know a thing 'least we create undue panic. But as a whole, I think "freedom of the press" is relatively safe. That's what the 1st Amendment is all about.

Just some things for folks to think about. Set your anger and partisanship aside long enough to really think about the issues, i.e., how did we get to this point? What were we trying to achieve? Did we achieve the desired results? If not, why? What can be done to meet those results? The questions go on and on, but at some point you have make a decision you believe is best for the nation and implement a plan (i.e., modify legislation or create a new law designed to address the problem). I’m not claiming to have the answers, but am I advocating for people to look deeper into these such problems and consider what you think would be the best ways to address them. From where I stand, it doesn’t appear that those who governed the country beforehand had better solutions otherwise why would there be a call to change?
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

What could a paper written by Obama's dad forty five years ago possibly have with Obama's policies today?
 
Re: Gingrich: Obama exhibits " Kenyan, anticolonial behavior"

your post is NOTHING but hannity/rush/beck/savage et al talking points.
Garbage in, garbage out. :shrug:
 
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Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

What could a paper written by Obama's dad forty five years ago possibly have with Obama's policies today?

If you read the article in my 2nd post, it offers an argument.
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

He might be implying that Obama wants to MAU MAU wealthy whites the same way Kenyan marxist terrorists did over a half century ago
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

Read more here

Kenyan anti colonial behavior? Does anyone on this forum have a clue what that means?:confused:

It means he was talking to the fringiest of conservative bases and Newt possibly didn't realize that he was being recorded...

When addressing the base, you toss as much red meat and fire, give them as many bat**** crazy talking points as you can... Scare the living crap out of them and then leave the building faster than Elvis.
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

It means he was talking to the fringiest of conservative bases and Newt possibly didn't realize that he was being recorded...

When addressing the base, you toss as much red meat and fire, give them as many bat**** crazy talking points as you can... Scare the living crap out of them and then leave the building faster than Elvis.

If you'd read the links in the thread, you'd see that they were comments made directly to a reporter, not comments from a speech.
 
Re: Gingrich: President Exhibits ‘Kenyan, Anticolonial Behavior’

If you read the article in my 2nd post, it offers an argument.

But it's a rather shrewed and very much mischaracterized argument laid out in that Forbs magazine piece. Let's look at each issue the author addresses:

Oil: While it is true that the Obama Administration has loaned Brazil $2 billion for oil exploration, I don't think the author is correct in saying that Brazil would retain all the oil they discover. Remember, this nation still imports far more oil than it exports, and given that Congress still has restrictions on U.S. oil exploration in Alaska and along both our East and West coasts, the only other place to drill for oil off-shore is in the Gulf of Mexico which as we all know experienced the worst deepwater oil spill in this nation's history. I'd consider that portion of the Forbes article half-true.

Bank loans (TARP) & stress-tests: Anyone who has remained abreast of our nation's banking (financial) crisis understands that our banking system was in total chaos! They took on so much risk and were leveraged heavily in derivitives, mortgage backed security, credit default swaps and God knows whatelse. So much so, many veteran financial experts didn't understand everything they had going on. Even Alan Greenspan was perplexed!! As a result, the major banks didn't have enough capital on-hand to pretect themselves from going under in the unlikely event that they placed themselves in this situation again. Most people don't know how close this country came to encountering this exact same financial meltdown 12-years ago under former President Clinton. The only thing that saved us then was that the banks took the advise of the Treasure and put up the funds to themselves to avert the crisis. Unfortunately, they didn't learn from this same mistake and this time it cost the American taxpayers billions (most of which should get paid back over time, but still...) It made sense early in the recovery process to ensure that these banks had enough of a financial cushion to ensure their own solvency. So, I can understand why the Obama Administration wasn't too quick to accept repayment of the loans. Most U.S. banks "emergency fund" still weren't at the level they needed to be to protect themselves. It made sense to say to the banks, "No...you're not quite to the level we need you to be in order to make sure you don't get in any financial trouble again. So, we're gonna play it safe and not take back any loans right now until we see more progress on your part." It was a responsible thing to do because NOW the banks are stronger and they are paying back their loans. Now, if we can only get them to start lending again...

Unemployment/Stimulus: It's interesting that the author would mention the unemployment rate being 9.5% now, but what he doesn't say (directly) is that this rate has remained constant since the (first) stimulus took effect. Now, while it's true that Stimulus-1 hasn't yielded the desired results, no one can deny that this action kept this country from going into a depression. Even financial experts agree with this assessment. Moreover, most have stated that in their opinion the stimulus bill wasn't large enough nor was it targetted enough to help private sector job growth!

Taxes: Here's another area I find rather contridictory among Republicans. They say fiscal responsibility is important to them and they know this country has a mounting deficit - part of it is on GW Bush (2 wars largely unfunded & TARP), part of it on Obama (Stimulus, unemployment compensation, GM/Chrysler bailouts) - yet they don't want to raise taxes at all on anyone in order to pay down the deficit they know will never be reduced with government cutbacks alone. Even Greenspan said today we're going to have to raise taxes at some point. Why not now when for perhaps the first time in nearly two years the country is showing signs of recovery? I believe it is possible to both spur job growth and pay down the deficit using targetted tax cuts. Somebody's gonna have to take a hit and siince the wealthiest of Americans have reapped the benefits of tax cuts for nearly 30 years they should be in a much better position financially than any other tax base to start the process of paying down the national debt. Taxes alone won't do it, however. The government will also need to start pulling back and cut spending, but the way I see it raising taxes on those who can afford to pay alittle more isn't asking that much especially from the side who constantly reminds us that they have this monopoly on patriotism. Well, paying more when your country needs you IS your patriotic duty as American citizens. We should all be willing to pay more in times of national crisis.

As to the rest of the Forbes article, there are similarities between what 1965 Africa/Kenya experienced and what the U.S. has experienced for decades and that is class segmentation, the "haves and have-nots". But this isn't unlike any industrialized society we see today. China, Russia, Great Britian, even Australia have different segments of their societies that are richers or poorer then the next guy. Where the article loses its creditibility, IMO, is where the author eludes to Obama Jr being just as pragmatic in his ideology as Obama Sr in how wealth distribution is to be accomplished here in the U.S.

The government's not going to "take" your possessions and turn them over to the "state" (government). That goes completely against the 4th Amendment (illegal search & seizure). Now, he could change the tax code to tax the wealthiest of Americans at a much higher rate, but I doubt that would happen because he has compaigned consistently on bringing tax rates for wage earners back to the levels the were during the Clinton presidency which was only a few percentage points higher than they are now (+/- 3%). Therefore, if the wealthiest of Americans are paying say...31% now, it's not going to kill a person making $250K to pay taxes at 34%. The rest of the piece is just a whole lot of speculation much of which I can't comment on because I haven't read the book, "Dreams from my Father," which is referenced therein. But as is commonly said, "Everyone's entitled to their opinion." I just don't think the opinions expressed are exactly as they've been outlined.

To Newt's comment, I think he was off-base. However, while I can see some similarities between Obama Sr and Obama Jr's ideologies, I don't think they approach the problems in their respective countries in much the same way. Still, you have to admit politicians in the U.S. do use financial power of the big power brokers to "win" votes just as they have preyed on the plight of the poor, elderly and disenfranchised to "scare" them into voting their way. As such, politicians do look at "class" as a means to sway public opinion. Look at the current argument before us - how best to spur job growth...through taxes, unemployment compensation, or taxation to the wealthiest Americans while providing tax cuts to the working/middle-class. You really can't ignore this truth.
 
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